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Why Are So Many Moderate Sikhs Against Khalistan


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UKLondonSingh, You posted a reply directed at me and I would like to respond however...I have to say the way you structure your posts does make it difficult to understand exactly what it was you said

>>SSA Paji ... sorry but because some posts are long I can only collect my thoughts in response in small segments :-)

but....picking up little bits here and there I can see that you are one of those that liike to use the argument that most ill-informed Hindus use, i.e the fact that the prime minister of India is a Sikh and the politicians / Police of Punjab are Sikh, and Sikhs in India are doing great financially.

>>I understand where you are coming from on that. If a few Sikhs were doing well but the majority of our Qaum was being wiped out then I'd agree with you. However, i genuinely believe that Sikhs as a community are doing (arguably) better than many other Indian communities on a pound-for-pound basis. And this was also behind a lot of their anger at us in 1984. That we oppose the caste system and the social order that the GOI+RSS at the time wanted to preserve and that we were a Chardi Kala community.

Well, the less said about the patheticaly impotent Manmohan Singh the better.

>>Everyone in my family hates the man. I don't think he's perfect. I don't think he's done enough for Sikhs. But I respect Dr Manmohan Singh as an individual, as a personally humble Gursikh + as probably the only Indian PM who has never been personally corrupt himself. It is certainly true that he appears to be a weak PM kept as a puppet by Sonia but I genuinely believe he is a good person trying his best from the perspective that he knows he can't get Sajjan Kumar, Tytler etc all locked down or Sardar Rajoana freed ... but I am sure he is using his (sadly limited) influence to the maximum degree he can.

...but if you think that most of those Punjab policemen that wear the turban as a hat as part of the official uniform are actually keshdari sikhs you are sorely mistaken.

>>Naah not at all Paji. Those idiots are not Kesdhari, I know that. They are the "shraabah peen wale" types ... however Punjab Police is still majority Sikh which surely means something. For example if in London, we had 25% of the met police as ethnic minorities I would have a lot more faith in the Met. Similarly, if Punjab Police was 100% Hindu i'd be way more scared. But they are our own people. We have got to take some responsibility.

Then you repeatedly make reference to the fact that muslim jatts massacred 300,000 Sikhs during partition.

>>Deliberate mentions Paji, as at the time that was 10% of our population ... imagine 3million Sikhs getting wiped out today. Plus they have Nankana Sahib etc. If we're not complaining about them + those lot are suddenly our friends, why the Khalistan calls as if 1984 was the only ghallughara our Qaum has faced (when we face massive issues that need addressing first in 2012)? I really believe that we need to keep things in perspective. The Bhopal victims of Rajiv Gandhi's friends haven't got justice and neither have have we. By focussing exclusively on 1984 and ignoring the present reality, I believe we harm our own cause.

Well...firstly, you need to know that unlike Sikh Punjabis, the jatts only make up a small minority of Muslim Punjabis,

>>Naah don't believe the hype that Muslim intellectuals spout (in order to try falsely portray that we Sikhs are from one community mainly). The truth is a good majority of Muslim Punjabi's are Jatt+Rajput with overlapping surnames like Atwal, Bhatti, Cheema, Tiwana, Bajwa, etc.

with the vast majority of them belonging to other groupings such as arains, sheikhs etc.

>>Paji i know all of their castes, arains&sheiks account for 15% tops ... and i know that the "sheikhs" are the Khatri & Arora converts, i know the Butts are all the Brahmins that converted to Islam, i know Zia was an Arain (Saini converts to Islam) from Jalandhar etc, etc ... however, hopefully you are aware of who the land vacated by our Sikh brothers was ceded to ... yes, it went to the Muslim Jatts who are the biggest haters of our Panth back from 1947 there and in the UK as well. I also deliberately make mention of Muslim Jatts and Hindu Jatts like Sajjan Kumar to try to shake the mentality of some fellow Sikhs that believe it is acceptable to be Sikh and Jatt simultaneously (when that is not possible). Anyone who has a caste (or tribal) affiliation and takes pride in that at the detriment of others, simply cannot be a Sikh. Them people need to go back to Hinduism or Islam which openly support the caste system.

So, unless you have uncovered startling new evidence which suggests that 90% of Punjabi muslims stayed indoors listening to the radio whilst the tiny 10% that were jatts went out and did all the killing...can we assume it was a rant against 'jatts' ?

>>Partly answered above, but no don't get me wrong ... the Awans, Gujjars, Mughals, Pathans, Arains, Rajputs etc from Pakistan all hate us with just as much passion as the Muslim Jatts do. I'm also sure you're aware that Jatts/Rajputs are essentially one qaum and consitute the majority in Pakistani Punjab and own most of the landholdings out of which Sikhs were butchered out of.

Again, in another post of mind I did mention how Indians repeatedly sidetrack us from the fight for freedom by manipulating us to fight their dirty way by proxy against the Pakistani muslims. You seem to be doing by mentioing at least a couple of times the fact that 300,000 Sikhs were killed by muslims during partition.

>>Precisely my point Paji ... how can we not oppose the same elements that revere Aurangzeb and killed 10% of our Qaum in the 20th century ... as well as up to 50% of our Qaum in earlier ghallugharas? All the repeated pre-1984 desecrations of Harmandir Sahib were done by the Mughals and their Punjabi+Pathan friends. In the future do we really wanna be friends with people who think Sajjan Kumar & Indira were brilliant politicians?

But I'd like to ask you, where does the fact that more Muslims were killed than the total number of Sikhs and Hindus added together fit into all this ? Do they not count as human lives ?

>>I don't agree with you that more Muslims died than Sikhs+Hindu's put together. I do count the innocent Muslim victims of Partition as innocent human lives for whom we should equally also shed a tear. I strongly oppose the shedding of any innocent human being's life regardless of if that person was Muslim, Hindu or Sikh. Sikhi teaches us that. However, Islam is pretty clear that killing kaffirs guarantees entry to Paradise.

Anyways bruvs, I think you'll be a wlcome addition to this forum coz you do make some very good points also.

>>Thanks bro, it's all good. Criticism is always welcome. It's all about how we can push the agenda of Sikhi and I know that you care about the future of our Qaum. But alas, i can't commit as much time to the forum in the future, but i'm sure it's in good hands as the sangat on here are good people.

But...I want you to know that I'm not the only one thats noticed how the majority of your messages do contain an anti-jatt underbelly.

>>All deliberate from my side Paji. Just to clarify that I have nothing but respect for the at least 50% of Khalsay (both current +historic) who may be of Jatt tribal ancestry originally before taking Amrit. But like I said before, i definitely wish to smash the subconscious link by which some Sikhs associate Sikhi with anything vaguely to do with Jatt ancestry. I also wish to point out to our enemies who constantly accuse our Qaum of essentially being Jatt in the main ... that the majority of Jatts are Muslims and Hindu's. For what's it's worth I respect the fact that folks have not overtly set up Jatt-labelled Gurdwaras. I don't equate Singh Sabha with being Jatt. I think those that do don't know their history. I have absolutely nothing against anybody of Jatt tribal ancestry who shares the same faith as me provided they don't mention it or believe in the wider concept and I'm aware it's not a caste in the conventional sense. But it infuriates me when someone declares themself to be anything other than plain simple Sikh. Hence my deliberate mentions, which I hope you can also mention to keep people (outside of this forum) in line the next time they mention that word out of pride or discrimination against others.

You keep going on about 'the incident in Vienna' and at one point you even gave the game away by referring to the great Bhagat Ravidass as a 'Guru'.

>>Again totally deliberate Paji. I don't have any time for Dera Sachkand Ballan. I'm sure the clean shaven dude in their Pantheon of Sants was on the Congress payroll. However, Vienna was a big setback for our Qaum as it solidified a "them + us" mentality on the part of some Ravidassias being falsely led by DSB into thinking they are not Sikh since 2010. I deliberately referred to Bhagat Ravidas Ji Maharaj as Guru ... for the following reasons ... Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj deliberately mentioned that he was not on a par with Bhagats and Sants (though of course we all know he was) ... further we bow down to the words of Guru Ravidas Ji every time we kneel before SGGS ... so I see no harm in us "non-sect" Sikhs like myself and you saying Guru Ravidas Ji or Guru Kabir Ji if that will help us re-integrate Kabirpanthi's and Ravidassia's back into the wider fold of Sikhi, so I'm glad you actually pointed that out :-) Just so you know I've been turned down by women in the past on the basis that I'm not Jatt, not Tharkhan, not Chamar, not Khatri, not Saini or any of the rest. Been raised to know since day1 that Sikh is my only identity full stop and in order for all us Sikhs to be casteless I know that Jatt is the first identity label that needs to vanish from people's vocabulary (since it is the most widely used) when they talk about themselves (and I don't accuse anybody on Sikh Sangat of that). I genuinely believe the rest would follow suit creating a united Sikh Qaum if the term Jatt-Sikh could be eradicated first. I also fully realise that at least half or more of the brothers+sisters reading this post may have the ancestry we're referring to but I salute the true Sikhs like that who might in fact be descended from a certain ancestry but don't use it to define themselves. Apologies if I offended you or other good people with my openly anti-Jatt comments. But I hope I have adequately justified why I deliberately used them. Trust me I hate all caste labels equally Paji. Let's leave that rubbish to the Hindu's, Muslims + Christians to define themselves by.

All in all though, I find your message to be exactly the same message that Indians wish to give to Sikhs, i.e...'everything's fine' 'sure things were bad in 1984 but everything's been fine since then'.

>>Naah not at all Paji.

>>Things are still far from perfect. The shaheedi of Bhai Jaspal Singh. The Ashutosh shaheedi's. Dera's multiplying. Badal's complicity in continuing Indira's policy of flooding Punjab with drugs to mentally wipe out the youth into a junkie state of mind without them appearing on Justice Khalra type lists. No justice for the victims of 1984. DS Bhullar and Rajoana Sahib to mention but two political prisoners that ought to be immediately released.

>>What I do believe is that the political situation has moved on in leaps and bounds since 1984 and that we really need to acknowledge that and adjust our strategy accordingly. Look where 1978 onwards got us to in 1984. I think we need to totally reframe where we are coming from. For what's it's worth I totally respect the vast majority of Khalistani elements in terms of their dedication to Sikhi and the way their hearts feel sadness at the injustices inflicted upon our Qaum. But I genuinely believe, we need to look instead at how all of India can become a spiritual Khalistan if you get what I mean.

So...let me leave you with this question, seeing how in your message you stated that we don't need freedom because they haven't committed any atrocities against us for years now. My question is....How many times would a mad man have to attack your child with a hammer before you demand justice ? As long as he only attacked once and hasn't done it since do you become best friends with him and want to stay by his side ?

>>Good analogy - can't really argue with that can I? But I don't believe it's as simple as your analogy. But if a mad man attacked my child, I would kill him if I could. If however, the mad man was much stronger than me and could kill my other children in the process of me fighting him for the attack on one child ... then perhaps I'd bide my time, perhaps even being patient enough to wait for my other sons to grow into shers ... try to make bridges with others in the mad man's family who also thinks he's paagal etc, etc. We will never be friends with the dogs that put petrol and tyres around Sardars necks. I want all the scum who killed innocent Sikhs wiped out, no doubt. But at the same time I genuinely do not see the 800 million or so poor Indians living on a few pence a day as any kind of enemy. I see them as potential future Sikhs. The enemy were the elite GOI at the time. The present GOI is not as opposed to Sikhs in 2012 as it was in 1984. I really believe times have changed and that we need to address the drugs menace, caste pride and female infanticide first at the moment before raising naaray for Khalistan (as I actively did in November 1984 myself).

>>Honest debate only strengthens us so that we can arrive at the best consensus for our Qaum so your questions were all good.

>>Rabh Rakha Paji.

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I understand where you are coming from on that. If a few Sikhs were doing well but the majority of our Qaum was being wiped out then I'd agree with you. However, i genuinely believe that Sikhs as a community are doing (arguably) better than many other Indian communities on a pound-for-pound basis. And this was also behind a lot of their anger at us in 1984. That we oppose the caste system and the social order that the GOI+RSS at the time wanted to preserve and that we were a Chardi Kala community.

sikhs r friggin GULAM/SLAVES in HINDUstan, END OF! stop tryna come up with that RSS/HinduPanjabi crap that, the PM/Army generals/top sportsmen r sikhs, WHO CARES! They r pickin them on their talent, not religiion. Also Most Top Bollywood Actors/Actresses r Muslim, Yet they r killed in large numbers in mumbai/gujarat riots, tearin down of babri masjid and lets not forget, that few yrs ago, salman khan was refused 2 purchase a house in the posh areas of maharashtra (probably mumbai/pune), simply coz hes a muslim.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroops r being burnt, n no one is being punished for it, no investigations, nothing. U kno wat, i cant b asked 2 go into WHY we r 2nd class, ill let sum 1 else do that.

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Thanks veerji you explained the lines very well and I understand what you are saying about the hooded cobra etc.. ie that the spirit of Sikhs cannot be broken etc. so we must have faith in the future and the plan of waheguru etc. However, it is still a purely spiritual answer and is not good enough for me in terms of strategy.

I don't know how you came to it was a purely spiritual answer.

I understand that you are a Taksali Singh and strong supporter of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and you believe that Akal Purakh instructed him the true plan on how Khalsa Raj should be achieved etc. However, I simply just dont support him in the same way that you do and have the same kind of faith in him that you do.

I'm not a Taksali Singh and i have never said in the past i was, so i don't know how you came to the conclusion that i am. It is a sad state today that those who call themselves Sikhs don't understand Sikhi. In fact i know a gora who is a Buddhist and he understands Sikhi ten times better than people on here. He directly told me that Sikhi cannot be studied and the only way to know about SIkhi is by practicing and experiencing it. I thought about the Sikhs that i meet on here and i wish i could have video taped it, so some rational thought can be brought into Sikhs on here.

I totally disagree with the parchaar that is now coming out of the Taksaal regarding who Jarnail Singh was and what they have now built him up to be and the stories they have circulated about him. I have friends from the UK that have stayed at the Taksal and frankly I was shocked about what they were being told by some of the sewadars, about the Sant doing miracles etc. When the Gurus themselves rejected miracles and refused to do them when they had the ability, why would Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale?

You are judging Sant Baba Jarnail SIngh ji Khalsa? Are you being serious right now? You have a bigger ego than i thought. Are you even reading what you wrote? One poster has already told you to start another thread on if miracles were done by our Gurus and i tell you the same, start a new thread so your doubts can be dispelled. I am speaking from experience, not faith or doubt that Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji Maharaj is in Chardikala; when Satguru does kirpa we start getting darshan of Chardikala Singhs.

Regarding the Taksal, I am aware of its beliefs and its Maryada. There are parts of it that I agree with and large parts that I disagree with. I think that the Taksal is great for producing kathavachiks and paathis. However, I personally would not look for leadership or strategy from there and nor would I look for great Generals.

Now, I apologise if you find my views disrespectful. I know that followers of the Taksal believe that it is the supreme truth, started by Guru Gobind Singh ji and the lineage of Baba Deep Singh etc. However, it is important for Taksali followers to understand that not all Sikhs in the Panth follow Taksal and not all Sikhs follow/agree with Taksali views/maryada.

Okay, I'm put this discussion in perspective. You don't have a jeevan to judge the Taksal Maryada or Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa. There is no other way to put it. You just don't have it and on here you are trying to tell other who Sant ji is. In this area you are completely illiterate and i hope you don't get offended by this. So listen to the Buddhist gora and start practicing Sikhi before passing judgement.

Now, what you say that Sikhs should do bhagti, improve their jeevan and spread sikhi... I am totally in agreement with this. No problem with that whatsoever.

However, when you start saying things like we shouldnt plan ahead for Khalsa Raj etc because we dont have the spirituality for it and we shouldnt question the strategies of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale because he received orders from Akal Purakh and it doesnt matter if innocent people die because that is all just part of the greater plan etc, then I think you will start to find some serious divergences and differences with the rest of the Khalsa Panth.

Actually not with the Khalsa Panth, but just with people with your like minded thinking. The Khalsa Panth is very much behind Sant ji, it's you and a small group who think like you that are not behind Sant ji. And it's purely because of ignorance. Before i said Satguru gave us instructions on what to do already and we need to do this, instead of trying to plan what we don't have the knowledge too. I know the Singhs that are into Sikhi understood what i meant by instructions. But for those that don't really practice Sikhi, i'll tell you what the instructions are. To get all the instructions then refer to 52 Hukams Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji gave us, but i'll pick some of the specific Hukams and say them here.

So Satguru instructed us to do Bhagti because this is the base of every action we do. Then aslo Satguru has told us to eat right because if you don't eat right then we have much trouble doing Bhagti. Next Satguru instructed us to execrise to keep the body healthy and if you don't and have a gut, then doing Bhagti gets harder. A person get's lazy when he eats the wrong foods and doesn't execrise. Next Satguru instructed us after we have built strong faith in Gurbani and Akal Purakh to study other relgious texts. If you don't have strong faith in Sikhi, then you will suffer spiritually from reading other religious text because many times you will think Satguru also taught this, but there is a subtle difference which makes a huge difference. Next we are to study politics and ways of how the world is running. Sri Charitorpakhyan comes in here, so you are protected from the clever tricks many men and women will play with you on a regular basis, which are also played out on this forum many times. Next Satguru has also instructed us to get skills in arms. Learn how to use them. Next Satguru has also instructed us to teach Sikhi to others and spread the teachings so others can benefit from learning about the Truth. But the base of all these instructions is Bhagti. IF you don't have Bhagti, then you have nothing, just like the Gursikh said to the person who responded by saying i have a masters. Once a Singh or Singhni has done all of this, then they are ready to recieve the plan Maharaj has for the hooded cobra. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj will come to you and tell you what the order are. So i hope that clears up many doubts you had. Again if you had just learned about Sikhi yourself, then another would not have to tell you.

So those that want to plan can keep on planning and receive the fruits of your labor. Those that want to follow the instructions of Satguru can start by doing Bhagti and then incoporating the other instructions into your life and help others on the way there. In the Sikh way of life there is nothing lack, Maharaj will present you with everything once you start trusting him and start doing Bhagti.

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I don't know how you came to it was a purely spiritual answer.

I'm not a Taksali Singh and i have never said in the past i was, so i don't know how you came to the conclusion that i am. It is a sad state today that those who call themselves Sikhs don't understand Sikhi. In fact i know a gora who is a Buddhist and he understands Sikhi ten times better than people on here. He directly told me that Sikhi cannot be studied and the only way to know about SIkhi is by practicing and experiencing it. I thought about the Sikhs that i meet on here and i wish i could have video taped it, so some rational thought can be brought into Sikhs on here.

You are judging Sant Baba Jarnail SIngh ji Khalsa? Are you being serious right now? You have a bigger ego than i thought. Are you even reading what you wrote? One poster has already told you to start another thread on if miracles were done by our Gurus and i tell you the same, start a new thread so your doubts can be dispelled. I am speaking from experience, not faith or doubt that Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji Maharaj is in Chardikala; when Satguru does kirpa we start getting darshan of Chardikala Singhs.

Okay, I'm put this discussion in perspective. You don't have a jeevan to judge the Taksal Maryada or Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa. There is no other way to put it. You just don't have it and on here you are trying to tell other who Sant ji is. In this area you are completely illiterate and i hope you don't get offended by this. So listen to the Buddhist gora and start practicing Sikhi before passing judgement.

Actually not with the Khalsa Panth, but just with people with your like minded thinking. The Khalsa Panth is very much behind Sant ji, it's you and a small group who think like you that are not behind Sant ji. And it's purely because of ignorance. Before i said Satguru gave us instructions on what to do already and we need to do this, instead of trying to plan what we don't have the knowledge too. I know the Singhs that are into Sikhi understood what i meant by instructions. But for those that don't really practice Sikhi, i'll tell you what the instructions are. To get all the instructions then refer to 52 Hukams Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji gave us, but i'll pick some of the specific Hukams and say them here.

So Satguru instructed us to do Bhagti because this is the base of every action we do. Then aslo Satguru has told us to eat right because if you don't eat right then we have much trouble doing Bhagti. Next Satguru instructed us to execrise to keep the body healthy and if you don't and have a gut, then doing Bhagti gets harder. A person get's lazy when he eats the wrong foods and doesn't execrise. Next Satguru instructed us after we have built strong faith in Gurbani and Akal Purakh to study other relgious texts. If you don't have strong faith in Sikhi, then you will suffer spiritually from reading other religious text because many times you will think Satguru also taught this, but there is a subtle difference which makes a huge difference. Next we are to study politics and ways of how the world is running. Sri Charitorpakhyan comes in here, so you are protected from the clever tricks many men and women will play with you on a regular basis, which are also played out on this forum many times. Next Satguru has also instructed us to get skills in arms. Learn how to use them. Next Satguru has also instructed us to teach Sikhi to others and spread the teachings so others can benefit from learning about the Truth. But the base of all these instructions is Bhagti. IF you don't have Bhagti, then you have nothing, just like the Gursikh said to the person who responded by saying i have a masters. Once a Singh or Singhni has done all of this, then they are ready to recieve the plan Maharaj has for the hooded cobra. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj will come to you and tell you what the order are. So i hope that clears up many doubts you had. Again if you had just learned about Sikhi yourself, then another would not have to tell you.

So those that want to plan can keep on planning and receive the fruits of your labor. Those that want to follow the instructions of Satguru can start by doing Bhagti and then incoporating the other instructions into your life and help others on the way there. In the Sikh way of life there is nothing lack, Maharaj will present you with everything once you start trusting him and start doing Bhagti.

It must be difficult for yourself as a Taksali Singh, that follows Taksali maryada to listen to views that are different to yours since you accept your own views as the supreme truth. However, this is not uncommon in other small cult-like groups as well. I'm not really here to try and persuade you away from your beliefs, however, delusional they may sound to me.

Probably we will go around in circles like we normally do when you and I debate. My take home message, though, would be that the Taksal is not the Panth and its views are not gospel. It is a part of the Panth, like all the other groups and jathebandian that make up the Panth. ' Taksalism' is not mainstream Sikhi as propogated by the Akal Takhat Sahib and it is not mainstream Sikhi in terms of numbers of followers. Actually it is a marginal force. No doubt the Taksal does play an important part in the Panth. After all, we need Babas to do parchaar in the villages in a style that will suit the villagers. We also need paathis and kathavachiks. So yes, the Taksal has a role.

It doesnt take someone with a great jeevan or a brahmgiani to work out that preachers, should stick to preaching and everybody else should also stick to what they are good at.

Hence, I shall quote your finishing paragraph that, 'those that want to plan can keep on planning and receive the fruits of (their) labor. Those that want to follow the instructions of Satguru can start by doing bhagti.'

The above is actually a profound and pivotal statement in this debate. However, my only addition to this would be that the two are not mutually exclusive, and it is possible to do both, if so inclined.

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It must be difficult for yourself as a Taksali Singh, that follows Taksali maryada to listen to views that are different to yours since you accept your own views as the supreme truth. However, this is not uncommon in other small cult-like groups as well.

This is not a go a pedrorizzo, it really is a genuine question from me, anybody can answer it..

Was the Taksaal started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, for Baba Deep Singh Ji to continue, or not? Is there any chance we can settle this once and for all. Is the Taksaal a Sikh University, fixed, and mobile, for Gurbani, as started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji as Baba Deep Singh Ji as it's first head? Can anybody give a yes or no. If somebody gives a no can they explain how Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not appointment Baba Deep Singh Ji as the first head of the taksaal.

This is not about arguing here. It's just whether we deny the Taksaal Lineage going back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Baba Deep Singh Ji or not?

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This is not a go a pedrorizzo, it really is a genuine question from me, anybody can answer it..

Was the Taksaal started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, for Baba Deep Singh Ji to continue, or not? Is there any chance we can settle this once and for all. Is the Taksaal a Sikh University, fixed, and mobile, for Gurbani, as started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji as Baba Deep Singh Ji as it's first head? Can anybody give a yes or no. If somebody gives a no can they explain how Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not appointment Baba Deep Singh Ji as the first head of the taksaal.

This is not about arguing here. It's just whether we deny the Taksaal Lineage going back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Baba Deep Singh Ji or not?

The question is not about its lineage. Its about the parchaar that is coming out of there. Even if the lineage is sound and correct, it doesnt not mean that the parchaar coming from there is legit etc.. The same could be said of Akal Takhat Sahib, there is no doubt about its lineage, but many have differing views as to what it has now has come to represent and propogate.

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sikhs r friggin GULAM/SLAVES in HINDUstan, END OF!

>>Bruv i think ur viewpoint is over-simplistic. If the UK had a black Prime Minister, a black gentleman repping the UK at the UN, 75% of the MP's and cops being black in boroughs where there are nuff Jameekay ... wud u turn round + say 2 me that "blacks are just slaves in the uk - end of!" We all know that there are continually abuses by the UK cops that result in black prisoners or suspects dying.

stop tryna come up with that RSS/HinduPanjabi crap that,

>>Mate i aint no HP + i sure ain't no RSS stooge. What i say, i say from the heart + i believe in. Trust me I will be happy when the RSS as a force are wiped out - the reason they oppose us is because Sikhi brings a revolutionary message of universal human equality + justice. The RSS is nothing but a pimp force dedicated to upholding the existing social order. Sikhi threatens revolution of that - particularly if our numbers increase. Every naarah for Khalistan strengthens the RSS. We played into the RSS trap before June 1984. These RSS jokers think Sikhi is part of Hinduism. The truth if we showed a bit more respect to Hindu's as individuals and patiently explain to them that Sikhi is the truest form of Sanatan Dharm ... the RSS would lose their base as most decent, intelligent Hindu's would turn to Sikhi. Speak to a guy called Mehtab Singh for advice on how you should phrase your comments regarding Hindu's. Mehtab Singh Ji if u read this - salute to you Sir - i read how you came to Sikhi and I regard someone like u that wasn't born into the faith as much more Sikh than someone like myself so big respect 2u.

the PM/Army generals/top sportsmen r sikhs, WHO CARES! They r pickin them on their talent, not religiion.

>>Sports I never mentioned + those don't really matter ... but even the fact that the Prime Minister + Head of Indian Army are now chosen on talent currently is a massive sea change since the 1984-1995 era (and before) ... when Sikhs were constantly overlooked despite their talent. Thanks to Dr Manmohan Singh and the other prominent Sikhs people now recognise that we are a Qaum whose achievement can never be stifled ... for those people to reach where they have after 1984 is incredible + credit where credit is due the general decent Hindu population has not protested at that by complaining that Sikhs are in too many top positions etc despite us only being a 1.9% minority in India.

Also Most Top Bollywood Actors/Actresses r Muslim, Yet they r killed in large numbers in mumbai/gujarat riots, tearin down of babri masjid and lets not forget, that few yrs ago, salman khan was refused 2 purchase a house in the posh areas of maharashtra (probably mumbai/pune), simply coz hes a muslim.

>>Entertainment industry representation of minorities has no meaningful impact in relation to the masses. A future PM of the UK being black or the current President of the States being Obama are undeniable indications that the world has moved on a lot since 1984.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroops r being burnt, n no one is being punished for it, no investigations, nothing.

>>Of course that beadbi should be stopped but it doesn't mean we are slaves or need to raise naaray for Khalistan when there are bigger problems in our community that we need to urgently address like drugs, caste + female infanticide first.

U kno wat, i cant b asked 2 go into WHY we r 2nd class, ill let sum 1 else do that.

>>I don't actually disagree if you were to state that Sikhs are treated as 2nd class citizens in the realms of Justice in India - in essence there is no justice in India. However, we can make ourselves a strong enough united force first to fight to get justice in time.

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