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Well I didnt see any. And if there was, then it was not because of the negligence the Sikh Council or any group because Downing Street was made well aware of this: Dear Steve, My name is ****** , yo

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I have just had it confirmed to me that there was alcohol at the event and there were complaints lodged on the day about this.

Well I didnt see any. And if there was, then it was not because of the negligence the Sikh Council or any group because Downing Street was made well aware of this:

Dear Steve,

My name is ****** , you very kindly sent me an invitation for Mondays Vaisakhi event at 10 Downing Street. I have been liaising with ****** MP for Wolverhampton reference some concerns that were raised at last years events and he requested I also speak to yourself. There are two main concerns:

1. The Vaisakhi event is to celebrate the formation of the Khalsa (initiation ceremony for baptise Sikhs) in April 1699. The drinking of alcohol is prohibiting for Sikhs especially for the baptised, it would therefore be inappropriate to serve alcohol at the event especially as it is to celebrate Vaisakhi.

2. Baptised Sikhs wear the Kirpan as an article of faith and are never separated from them, last year there was a delay of up to an hour because of security concerns. Please could you inform security of this event so that last year’s experienced is not repeated.

I apologise for the late contact but as I said above I was only asked this morning to contact you this afternoon by ***** MP. Please email me or contact me on the number below.

Kind Regards

However, if alcohol was served and complaints have been lodged, then fine, the Sikh Council and other groups should also echo the complaints. However, what is not helpful is questioning the motives and the integrity of those that attended the event.

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Our leaders tip-toe around British politicians. That's all it is. No-one's willing to make a stand for Sikhi asools. That's why Bhai Rajoana is such an inspiration for ordinary Sikhs.

Panth First, Self-Interest Second. These are the type of leaders we need.

Rubbish. Classic Indian leg pulling. Sikh leaders in the Uk have devoted a life time to sewa for the Panth and are doing their best. It is easy to move ones mouth than to actually get off ones back side and do something.

Bhai Rajoana is an inspirational fighting Singh for what he did to Beant and the sacrifice he made but he is not a leader. Sure he has charisma and has caught the popular imagination. But that is not how leaders are made and it is not how leaders are selected. Leaders require leadership qualities and Rajoana does not have them. Its easy to raise slogans from your prison cell and walk around with a big chest and curled up moustache. If you think those are leadership qualities, then you really are on a different planet.

You guys will follow blindly anyone who talks fighting talk and do not appreciate the intricacies of Panthic Affairs. Instead you get excited and passionate over words like revolution without fully understanding what this means and what is involved. Earlier you were dictating to the Uk leaders that they must give money to the womansing and human trafficking Baba Daduwal from India lol. First it was Daduwal, and now it is Rajoana. The total lack of thought and intellect is quite scary. No wonder the 'moderate' Sikh majority think that you lot are all nutters and no wonder the elders think you are a liability and dont want to engage with such an unstable and volatile group of people.

Support the UK Sikh leaders and stop trying to pull them down. They were dealing with Panthic issues before you even entered your mother's womb. You should have some respect for their experience and intellect. Trying to engage independently in hot-headed youth led projects is no good for the Panth!

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A generic template message, probably pulled out by the pm on diwali too.

I am annoyed by someone like Bhai Mohinder Singh's negligant acceptance of the alcholic beverages at a Sikh event for vasaikhi. We need to stop putting people on pedestals if they're not going to stand for asools.

Apparently Bhai Mohinder Singh is getting a knighthood for turning a blind eye.

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What a load of nonsense this thread is.

Sounds like sour grapes from Sikhs who were not invited to the event lol. What you guys dont seem to realise is that this was a Vaisakhi celebration event not a protest march. It was organised by Downing Street after much persuasion by the Sikh community and this is only the second event running. To have it hijacked into a Panthic Morcha would jeapordise future events from taking place. Sikh Council UK, United Sikhs and other key individuals have already been talking and negotiating with top politicans about the Rajoana case etc. This was not the time or the place.

The majority of those that came to the event were 'moderate' Sikhs from the business community. However, there were also representatives from Sledgley Street Gurdwara, Bhai Mohinder Singh was there, and others such as Lord Inderjit Singh and Dr. Rai.

Sikh Council UK advised Downing Street that such an event should be alcohol free and vegetarian. Indeed, I saw no alcohol there but I saw lots of people drinking apple juice from wine glasses.

Regarding the point about Kesari Dastaars, again another totally ridiculous point. It was a celebratory event for the purposes of networking and developing relationships with Downing Street, not a protest march nor a religious event. Who gave the order that everyone should be wearing Kesari Dastaars and why? Most of the people that went down came straight from work so it would be totally impractical. Incidentally, there were members of the Sikh Federation present and they also opted not to wear Kesari Dastaars either, so where does that leave you?

This is a highly mischievous thread and I question the motives of those who have started it. Most likely it is sour grapes as they were not invited to the event?

Please name the Sikh Federation (UK) members present as they are not to be seen in the 150 official photographs..

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However, if alcohol was served and complaints have been lodged, then fine, the Sikh Council and other groups should also echo the complaints. However, what is not helpful is questioning the motives and the integrity of those that attended the event.

Agree with you.

Also if complaints have been lodged, its obvious people attending didn't turn a blind eye.

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Please name the Sikh Federation (UK) members present as they are not to be seen in the 150 official photographs..

The individuals who started all these rumours in the first place are well aware who the two Sikh Federation members who attended are so perhaps you should ask them, though I suspect they will deny all knowledge of it. It is also important to note that individuals were given personal invitations to this event and not invited as jathebandian. This was not a protest event or a morcha. There have been lots of opportunities for protesting and lobbying and carried out by men who are wiser and more influential than you or I, regarding the Rajoana case and other Sikh rights issues.

I can also confirm that no alcohol was served. It was fruit juice in wine glasses.

This thread is pure mindless mudslinging which is not in keeping with Sikhi spirit. Shame on the guy (s) who started these rumours for the purposes of personal gain!

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I can also confirm that no alcohol was served. It was fruit juice in wine glasses.

Lol.."Fruit juice" in fancy wine glasses :wink2: ! That sure separates the pendoos from the noble. Most of us are still drinking our tea from the saucer.

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pedroizzo

The link below has all the officlal photographs of the event. Those wishing to view them, please use the following password. reception16042012

www.photobox.co.uk/album/1212042800

Let people look at all the photographs and decide for themselves.

I have looked at the photographs many times and have been unable to spot any members of the Sikh Federation (UK). Please indicate which photos we should be looking at.

It is great complaints have been lodged by the Sikh Council UK and others.- they were lodged last year when alcohol was served and assurances appear to have been goiven this year, but alcohol appears to have been served again. Apple juice in wine glasses in one thing, dark red liquid as shown in some photographs - suggests red wine. No doubt as you attended, No 10 can confirm in writing if wine was served or not. Someone who attended has confirmed fish was being served - could you confirm if this was or was not the case.

In an earlier post you stated: 'Sikh Council UK, United Sikhs and other key individuals have already been talking and negotiating with top politicans about the Rajoana case etc. This was not the time or the place.'

As far as I am aware the Sikh Council UK whilst having been in touch with the Foreign Office has NOT been talking and negotiating with top politicans about the Rajoana case. Please do not exaggerate and spread untruths - keep in real.

Also earlier someone stated United Sikhs handed over a written document regarding Balwant Singh. There is a photograph (see below) that shows an envelope being given to the PM - great as United Sikhs used the opportunity to raise the matter with the PM. No doubt you would condemn United Sikhs as you said this was not the time or the place!

post-2951-0-01291800-1334820123_thumb.jp

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Its our own fault, we always promote the Religious aspect of Vaisakhi as well as the cultural, i.e. harvest time celebrations etc. What No 10 through its advisors has done is combine the 2 together, hence the guy from Alap (Channi) and his daughter singing and the dancing.

The main advisor for this event would have been Paul Uppal MP (tory) from Wolverhampton.

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pedroizzo

The link below has all the officlal photographs of the event. Those wishing to view them, please use the following password. reception16042012

www.photobox.co.uk/album/1212042800

Let people look at all the photographs and decide for themselves.

I have looked at the photographs many times and have been unable to spot any members of the Sikh Federation (UK). Please indicate which photos we should be looking at.

It is great complaints have been lodged by the Sikh Council UK and others.- they were lodged last year when alcohol was served and assurances appear to have been goiven this year, but alcohol appears to have been served again. Apple juice in wine glasses in one thing, dark red liquid as shown in some photographs - suggests red wine. No doubt as you attended, No 10 can confirm in writing if wine was served or not. Someone who attended has confirmed fish was being served - could you confirm if this was or was not the case.

In an earlier post you stated: 'Sikh Council UK, United Sikhs and other key individuals have already been talking and negotiating with top politicans about the Rajoana case etc. This was not the time or the place.'

As far as I am aware the Sikh Council UK whilst having been in touch with the Foreign Office has NOT been talking and negotiating with top politicans about the Rajoana case. Please do not exaggerate and spread untruths - keep in real.

Also earlier someone stated United Sikhs handed over a written document regarding Balwant Singh. There is a photograph (see below) that shows an envelope being given to the PM - great as United Sikhs used the opportunity to raise the matter with the PM. No doubt you would condemn United Sikhs as you said this was not the time or the place!

Well in that case your awareness is limited. I have seen correspondence from the Sikh Council UK to the UK Government regarding the Rajoana case and many other Sikh rights issues. I have also seen the letters written from the UK government written to the Indian Government expressing their concern about the death penalty. If you wish to see these documents then please contact Sikh Council directly. Would I condemn the United Sikhs for giving David Cameron a sealed envelope re Rajoana? Dont be such a drama queen. Honestly you have been watching too much Zee TV. It was done in a discreet and tactful way which was appropriate for the event. I applaud them.

However, lets also understand we are not protesting against the UK Government, we are protesting against the Indian Government. All the UK Government can do and will ever realistically do is express its disagreement with the death penalty which they have already done. The case is currently adjourned. What more do you want the UK Government to do? Go to war with India? Ban trade with India? Be realistic dude. Sikh Council UK is one step ahead of you and most other UK organisations and is playing its part.

Regarding the Federation at the event. First of all lets be clear that there is no real formal membership in the Federation. The two prominent individuals who were present know who they are, and the person who is bitter about not being invited and is spreading the rumours also knows who they are. If you are really so desperate to find out then do so outside of this website as I will not be mentioning their names. Why? Because they are friends of mine.

However, I will re-iterate that individuals were invited to this event and not jathebandis. That means that neither the Federation nor the Sikh Council were formally invited. If members came, it was because of personal invitation.

Regarding the alcohol issue, confirmation that no alcohol was served has come from Downing Street. If you wish to see this, contact Sikh Council UK directly.

It is possible that fish was being served as the White English understanding of vegetarian is different to ours. So vegetarian food was specified to Downing Street but perhaps not clearly enough. However, complaints have been lodged about this in order to rectify the situation for next time.

Lol.."Fruit juice" in fancy wine glasses :wink2: ! That sure separates the pendoos from the noble. Most of us are still drinking our tea from the saucer.

I think the above really summarises what this thread is all about. Jealousy! Certain individuals are feeling snubbed about not getting an invite :(

Stop asking me silly questions on Sikh Sangat. Contact Sikh Council UK directly and they will be able to dispel any rumours for you.

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Its our own fault, we always promote the Religious aspect of Vaisakhi as well as the cultural, i.e. harvest time celebrations etc. What No 10 through its advisors has done is combine the 2 together, hence the guy from Alap (Channi) and his daughter singing and the dancing.

The main advisor for this event would have been Paul Uppal MP (tory) from Wolverhampton.

You are correct about this. This was not a religious event. It was a cultural event at Downing Street. It was not a protest or a lobby. Simply a cultural party hosted at 10 Downing Street and an opportunity to network and create links with the UK Government. After all, how can our community safeguard Sikh rights without networking and cultivating relationships at the highest level.

However, you are correct to point out, that cultural or not, such an event should not be serving meat and alcohol because of the Sikhi connection with Vaisakhi. Thankyou also for mentioning Paul Uppal's name as he was the main advisor for the event. Any concerns or complaints would be best sent to him to rectify any situations for next time. That would be a more effective use of time, compared to slandering individuals who have dedicated their lives to sewa for the Panth and questioning their motives.

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Well in that case your awareness is limited. I have seen correspondence from the Sikh Council UK to the UK Government regarding the Rajoana case and many other Sikh rights issues. I have also seen the letters written from the UK government written to the Indian Government expressing their concern about the death penalty. If you wish to see these documents then please contact Sikh Council directly. Would I condemn the United Sikhs for giving David Cameron a sealed envelope re Rajoana? Dont be such a drama queen. Honestly you have been watching too much Zee TV. It was done in a discreet and tactful way which was appropriate for the event. I applaud them.

However, lets also understand we are not protesting against the UK Government, we are protesting against the Indian Government. All the UK Government can do and will ever realistically do is express its disagreement with the death penalty which they have already done. The case is currently adjourned. What more do you want the UK Government to do? Go to war with India? Ban trade with India? Be realistic dude. Sikh Council UK is one step ahead of you and most other UK organisations and is playing its part.

Regarding the Federation at the event. First of all lets be clear that there is no real formal membership in the Federation. The two prominent individuals who were present know who they are, and the person who is bitter about not being invited and is spreading the rumours also knows who they are. If you are really so desperate to find out then do so outside of this website as I will not be mentioning their names. Why? Because they are friends of mine.

However, I will re-iterate that individuals were invited to this event and not jathebandis. That means that neither the Federation nor the Sikh Council were formally invited. If members came, it was because of personal invitation.

Regarding the alcohol issue, confirmation that no alcohol was served has come from Downing Street. If you wish to see this, contact Sikh Council UK directly.

It is possible that fish was being served as the White English understanding of vegetarian is different to ours. So vegetarian food was specified to Downing Street but perhaps not clearly enough. However, complaints have been lodged about this in order to rectify the situation for next time.

I think the above really summarises what this thread is all about. Jealousy! Certain individuals are feeling snubbed about not getting an invite :(

Stop asking me silly questions on Sikh Sangat. Contact Sikh Council UK directly and they will be able to dispel any rumours for you.

Just to be clear.

i) I did not mention or criticise the Sikh Council UK (or any other Sikh organisation) - please look through the thread. You did however mention the Sikh Federation (UK) - Why. You mentioned 'members' of the Sikh Federation (UK) were present, but now say it does not have a proper membership. As you are unwilling to point to any named individuals on this forum please email info@sikhfederation.com which can then deal directly with the Sikh Council UK.

ii) I am aware of letters and what the UK Government has done - I was however surprised by your bold statement 'talking and negotiating with top politicans', which is not the same as letters.

iii) I do not watch Zee TV.

iv) Given what you say about what the UK Government has done were those (largely youth) who were protesting outside 10 Downing Street on 12 April wasting their time? Are those petitioning the UK Government (which I understand is being supported by the Sikh Council UK) wasting their time?

v) I have not categorically stated there was alcohol, all along have said their appears to be alcohol. Others have said they have confirmed there was alcohol.

vi) It is good the Sikh Council UK (it appears you are a main player) has written confirmation from 10 Downing Street confirming there was no alcohol. Perhaps this could be shared with the membership of the Sikh Council UK.

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