Jump to content

Raise Your Voice Against The Curse Of Casteism In The Sikhs


JSinghnz
 Share

Recommended Posts

Borat Jee, would you think of yourself any less if you knew that in previous Janams you were not of your present Janam's caste? what if you just found out you were a dravidian from south India or a Habshi would it not destroy your notion of taking pride in your present caste? some times when one takes so much pride of caste, you might very well reincarnate into another caste just as Vaheguru's way for you to teach you lesson of taking pride in your present Janam's caste.

This world is just a dream. It is unreal. To take pride in worldly castes, race is like taking pride in illusion. It means abolutely nothing when you die and the veil of this illusion is lifted. You have done some very good Karma in your past lives because of which you were blessed with Sikhi. That is the only think you have to be proud of. Now use this Janam for what really matters instead of taking pride in worldly caste(pure illusion).

Race is realty I'm afraid. It's not up for debate, it's an unchanging thing. We don't have to treat people badly just because of the caste they were born in; but that doesn't mean we should all mix together and end up like what? End up like Brazil? A supposed "post-racial" society in which the caste system continues in another form.

This isn't about superior/inferior dichtonomies but about whether the envisioned model of society actually works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's mad how we're meant to get rid of All Ego, yet people can't even shed the false status of class- such an easy thing to disown. In reality- we're Nothing- we're not even a person or gender- we're pure Nothing.

The Truth is so simple- yet people hold on to their false identity as if their lives depend on it. All it takes is application of the simple gyan.

'I am Nothing- God bas tuhee tu.'

Then we understand that everything is just Hukam- it's all Truth/ Him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's mad how we're meant to get rid of All Ego, yet people can't even shed the false status of class- such an easy thing to disown. In reality- we're Nothing- we're not even a person or gender- we're pure Nothing.

The Truth is so simple- yet people hold on to their false identity as if their lives depend on it. All it takes is application of the simple gyan.

'I am Nothing- God bas tuhee tu.'

Then we understand that everything is just Hukam- it's all Truth/ Him.

Your post reminds me of the C.S. Lewis quote: “You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ Singher23

Get off your highhorse. What makes you think I wouldn't befriend someone because of what caste they come from?

What is wrong with jatts continuing to be jatts? Is it a crime now to want to preserve your own people?

I take it your not a Sikh then because to be called a Sikh one must follow the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That includes taking Amrit so when you take Amrit and become Gursikh, you automatically abolish the caste system. Caste is a Hindu string not a Sikhi teaching. To believe its ok to stay within caste is to go against Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Race is realty I'm afraid. It's not up for debate, it's an unchanging thing. We don't have to treat people badly just because of the caste they were born in; but that doesn't mean we should all mix together and end up like what? End up like Brazil? A supposed "post-racial" society in which the caste system continues in another form.

This isn't about superior/inferior dichtonomies but about whether the envisioned model of society actually works.

caste is not race

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adding

ਪੂਰਬੀ ਨ ਪਾਰ ਪਾਵੈਂ ਹਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਹਿਮਾਲੈ ਧਿਆਵੈਂ ਗੋਰਿ ਗਰਦੇਜੀ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥

ਜੋਗੀ ਜੋਗ ਸਾਧੈ ਪਉਨ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਕਿਤੇਕ ਬਾਧੈ ਆਰਬ ਕੇ ਆਰਬੀ ਅਰਾਧੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥

ਫਰਾ ਕੇ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ ਮਾਨੈਂ ਕੰਧਾਰੀ ਕੁਰੈਸੀ ਜਾਨੈਂ ਪਛਮ ਕੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਪਛਾਨੈਂ ਨਿਜ ਕਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥

ਮਰਹਟਾ ਮਘੇਲੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਮਨ ਸੋਂ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਵੈ ਤਿਲੰਗੀ ਪਹਚਾਨੈ ਧਰਮ ਧਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥੨॥੨੫੪॥

ਬੰਗ ਕੇ ਬੰਗਾਲੀ ਫਿਰਹੰਗ ਕੇ ਫਿਰੰਗਾਵਾਲੀ ਦਿਲੀ ਕੇ ਦਿਲਵਾਲੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਮੈ ਚਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

ਰੋਹ ਕੇ ਰੁਹੇਲੇ ਮਾਘ ਦੇਸ ਕੇ ਮਘੇਲੇ ਬੀਰ ਬੰਗ ਸੀ ਬੁੰਦੇਲੇ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਜ ਕੋ ਮਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

ਗੋਖਾ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈ ਚੀਨ ਮਚੀਨ ਕੇ ਸੀਸ ਨਯਾਵੈ ਤਿੱਬਤੀ ਧਿਆਇ ਦੋਖ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਦਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

ਜਿਨੈ ਤੋਹਿ ਧਿਆਇਓ ਤਿਨੈ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪ ਪਾਇਓ ਸਰਬ ਧਨ ਧਾਮ ਫਲ ਫੂਲ ਸੋਂ ਫਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥ (Akaal Ustat)

Satgur Gobind Singh Ji, patshahi 10 is saying that whosoever,

whether belong to any place

belong to any race belong to any caste, class, clan,

whether he is Gorkha, Bengali, Firangi, Kandhari, black, white, punjabi marathi, southern, gujrati, pakistani, afghani, arabic, persian, russian, chinese,

whosoever ਜਿਨੈ is meditating on supreme wisdom ਤਿਨੈ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪ ਪਾਇਓ (SURAT SHABAD BHAVSAGAR TARIYE)

When feeling of ਤੋਹਿ ਧਿਆਇਓ comes in a soul, these all things would not matter and who have matter with these things have no relation with ਤੋਹਿ ਧਿਆਇਓ, will have such problems.

All divisions vanishes in spiritual world. No Place

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That Natasha Behl dissertation sounds very interesting.

I can't view the link in the OP with my browser.

Can I get a pdf version of the dissertation from somewhere? Or read a html version online?

It's heartwarming to read the comments of the brothers and sisters who have internalised the wonderful egalitarian principles of the faith and rejected false notions of caste. Any conscious and forward thinking Sikh knows that this ugly remnant of the past has held the Sikh communities progression back, being the direct cause of a lot of lowly, base behaviour amongst us. Not only this, but it makes our society look like a microcosm of Hinduism with its inherent inequality.

I've also noticed that those who wish to perpetuate this nonsense always produce the same old, tired arguments about 'race', 'culture' in order to defend it. Heartlessly playing down the outright cruelty that clearly manifests itself as a direct consequence of such beliefs. The truth is that such people, despite their obfuscation, only do this because they want to preserve some perceived personal status, or perceived superiority from the dynamics of the caste system. And it is sad and telling that people still need to cling onto such things to make themselves feel good about themselves, especially when they have had the benefit of an education. Whilst you can half understand some ignorant pendu, thinking this way (as rubbish as it is), I still find it shocking that children of the 21st century can think this way?? But it will be a sad time for such mental old foggies in the diaspora (some of whom are surprisingly young - no doubt brainwashed by older casteists), because they will increasingly see how the social landscape of our society, will change rapidly (IS changing rapidly!!) around us.

A lot of us are bright enough to see the writing on the wall. The way things are going, pretty soon [for those who haven't got there already], most Sikhs will be sighing a massive breathe of relief when their daughter marries a fellow Sikh regardless of caste. But I have noticed another trend lately as well, where some ignorant apnay actually seem to prefer their daughters marrying say a gora, rather than them marrying into another subsection of the Sikh community whom they deem to be inferior.

I'll put my money on belief and faith in the eternal outlasting any 'race', 'genetic' based ideologies, which come and go. No 'race' of people, however 'grand' their empires or achievements, or however great they have considered themselves haven't been brought back down to earth, sometimes with a dramatic drop. Maybe this is what dasmesh pita meant when he described Rabh as 'Garab Gunjan' or 'destroyer of pride' in Jaap Sahib?

Those wishing to preserve some 'pure blood' should remember the last little Austrian <banned word filter activated> that was obsessed with such ideas and the holocaust he let loose on the earth because of it. If a Sikh thinks that 'preservation' of some genetic material is equal to, or worth compromising the preservation, cohesion and progression of the Sikh community - which is based on belief despite shrewed political moves in the UK to turn it into a ethnic identity, I seriously doubt they have any genuine affection for the underlying principles of the faith. Like caste, I imagine the Sikhi of their imagination is just another plank to prop up their ego - which is ironic, because as already pointed out, subduing the ego is one of the central goals of the religion.

We've got a fair few battles ahead of us, on a number of planes, against both external and internal forces. A conscious Sikh probably already knows that one of the big internal fights is against the thinking that results in Sikhs creating hierarchies amongst themselves based on unSikhlike principles, chief of which is casteism/clannism/ethnowhateverism (whatever the heck people are packaging that crap up as today!)

Don't excuse it, don't ignore it, confront it, fight it, defeat it!

Big respect to the Jakara Movement people for taking the steps they have. Salute to all the Sikh brothers and sisters who dream of a begumpura in their hearts and take action to realise this dream. No ethoracial, clan, caste jibberish should stand in the way of our people realising a fair society amongst ourselves. It's what our Gurus strove for.

Achievements we make in this domain will be one of the best things we could pass down to future generations. YOU KNOW it's a cause worth fighting for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the indian media purposely tries to incite caste hatred between communities - especially trying to get "Jatts" to hate "phape" which is utterly stupid. Most people who try to flaunt they're jatt haven't done a day's of kheti and are sitting in England, USA, Canada. Even in Punjab most of these "jatts" give their lands out on tekha and have paiye doing all the labor. I don't think the youth do it on purpose knowing what they're doing. My first name on a Sikh forums (as a mona with below basic knowledge of Sikhi) was Jatt559 lol but soon realized how stupid flaunting something like that is.

In the old days baniye/bahmans used to say, "Je jatt na hunde, bandeian nu kheti karni pave".

Sikhs lack numbers and organization, creating such divisions that our Guru Sahiban abolished is exactly what someone who wishes Sikhs ill would want. Imagine if Sikhs began to recognize each other as Sikhs and mobilized to do sewa all across Punjab, India and the world. No one touches the dalits, but it's the job of the Sikhs to treat them as human beings like everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Sadly the caste system is alive and well in Sikhi followers. From my contact with fellow Sikhs in the UK I would say 80-90% still believe in the caste system to a certain extent. Especially when it comes to marriage.

One particular caste in particular is obsessed with it, they think they are the greatest and try to belittle every other caste, will wear T-shirts saying they're proud to be that particular caste, will get private number plates for their cars containing their caste name, even though in the grand scheme of things they are not even high up. Some of them are so deluded that they say the Gurus were members of their caste when it's clear they were not! I have met plenty of Amritdharis who are members of this caste and shockingly they also demonstrate this behaviour.

I myself am not a member of this caste and whenever I have been asked what caste I am, it is always by a member of the above caste. I don't know what the obsession is. Like I said it's not like this caste is anywhere near being the highest caste.

Maybe the caste system has a certain place in rural India where people still do work related to their caste, so it makes sense for a girl to marry into a similar caste so that she knows how to perform those duties. Maybe this is why our Gurus all married within caste. But you shouldn't look down on other castes even if you do marry only within your own.

But in the cities and in the west there is no need whatsoever to marry someone of a similar caste because you are not doing work related to your caste.

Each caste is not a seperate race, that is complete nonsense, once again it is false information that is sadly propogated by the caste I mentioned above.

We are all the same ethnicity and to be honest we're not even that different (if at all) ethnically to people from other nearby states like Himmachal, Jammu, Haryana, Delhi, Rajasthan.

I do feel for the 'lower castes' like chamaars and chooras and I can fully understand why they call themselves Ravidassias and have their own gurdwaras. Ask yourself how would you feel if members from other castes would not eat at the same table as you, will not eat food from your house and consider you filthy. This is why the muslims of India wanted Pakistan because that's how we Sikhs and the Hindus treated them! So we should treat all Sikhs regardless of caste equally. It's only when you experience it first hand you know how it feels. Christian missionaries in India target people from these 'lower castes' and convert them to give them better self esteem. This will continue until this discrimination ends. I remember in my last trip to India, I was at a relative's house and the woman who cleaned the house was eating the roti my aunt gave to her outside the house and whenever she spoke to anyone she covered her face with a chunni. It was heartbreaking to see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use