Raise Your Voice Against The Curse Of Casteism In The Sikhs

[JSinghnz]

You hit it right on the nail! Our misfortune that we all have to put up with "jattvaad' and "chamars" btw effort on that begampura campaign and that lalkaar website. I couldnt go because facin some hard time but everyone should visit the website

Not only visit the site but also follow their strong message against casteism.

WE ALL HAVE TO MAKE CASTE SYSTEM IN SIKHISM A THING OF THE PAST.

[dalsingh101]

You know one of the things that really surprises me about our community sometimes is the lack of 'josh' when it comes to social reform like this. The reason it surprises me is because doing something like eliminating caste in the diaspora IS infinitely more achievable than other Sikh causes that do seem to get a lot of people engaged - like Khalistan.

Personally I think the time is coming (if it hasn't already) where we in diasporic enclaves can actually be an example to our brothers and sisters backhome who seem, almost en masse, to have gone completely of the rails with casteism and drugs.

We need to deal with this matter as priority and not just at a surface level, we need to address what Pyara on the forum once described as 'institutional casteism' within our religious organisations. This is casteism that is more craftily concealed than the usual stuff we talk about i.e. Gurdwara names etc.

Limp responses from many youth on this matter, especially those who are usually quite vocal about all matters 'Sikh' makes me wonder if many of them are surreptitiously clinging on to their parents generation's mindset? hmmm?

[KhalistaniGunMan]

there are only four castes bhramin, kshatri, vaish and shudra in the indian culture...the guru sahibs were of kshatri heritage..which is why when we take amrit and are adopted into sri guru gobind singh jis family..we adopt the kshatri khalsa as our jaat...we become warriors/kings yet we also become bhramin, vaish and shudra aswell....we take the religous learning/knowledge of a bhramin, we take the bravery/honour etc from kshatri, we take gristi values/livelihood from vaish and we take the values of serving and humility from shudra...sikhi never abolished the caste system..it molded and united the 4 castes into 1 strong hybrid...the khalsa

[DalbirSingh]

Although the caste system exists for so many people who do people give it so much value there are more things which are more valuable like personality, education, career even superficail looks mean more, gursikhi jeevan, intelligence and respect. I will rather befriend intellectual chumars like that politicians who comes from a chumar backgound over thousands of pendo jatts- we can learn from everyone have respect for people. Caste should not matter in marriage, people run outside of religion and still go on about caste. There are multiple factors in marriage plus your offsprings genes will thank you for mixing more outside a gene pool

[gurdssingh]

My personal experience is a lot of people will say they don't believe in caste but to some degree they might. I mean how many amritdhari couples do you know that have married someone outside of their baradari? Sikhs belong to the Khalsa but end of the day we all know even if we don't believe in caste what your background is caste wise. I mean a amritdhari jatt will rarely marry a tarkan a tarkan marry a chammar or chammar marry a bihari bhayia who has took Amrit. Only when amritdhari Sikhs truly believe in no jath path and inter Marry will the wider punjabi community pay heed as you can say it till the cows come home but how many of the posters in this thread are married to or have a family member married to someone from a higher or lower baradari ? I think most of your families are from the same, even though you don't believe in caste.

[gurdssingh]

Also why are there so many snide cheap shots at jatts?

[Shamshere]

Also why are there so many snide cheap shots at jatts?

Probably because they harp on about caste more than any other group!

[UKLondonSikh]

Borat = I oppose any sort of apartheid treatment between the castes. However I do feel there shouldn't be intermarriage between the castes. I just feel we have to have a certain respect and continuation of our unique lineages, that is all.

London = Borat, the caste system is in effect an apartheid system at the matrimonial level. Apartheid is an apt description for the mentality of supporting the caste system. Given the Truth that Sikhi shows us, we Sikhs should all 100% be bitterly opposed to apartheid behaviour and the caste system.

Borat = What is wrong with jatts continuing to be jatts? Is it a crime now to want to preserve your own people?

London = The whole human race is one. Not my words. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj famous words were "manas ki jaath sabhe ek pai'chchaano". The human genome projects proves that beyond doubt by demolishing the theory of races being separate.

Borat = However if we believe in dharma then clearly we are in the postion we are at because of the deeds of our past lives.

London = The meaning of karma in Sanskrit refers to our "actions in THIS life". Don't believe the hype that if some Muslim Jatt attacks you in England tomorrow and were to subsequently leave you in a critical state ... that this would somehow be as a result of your past misdeeds ... it would purely and squarely be down to the fact that like the Muslim Jatts saw that by killing off up to 20% of the Sikh population in Pakistan at the time ... they took the land and businesses that the Sikhs had worked so hard on ... the Muslim Jatts hate you for being for the faith you state you belong to. I mean would anyone lying in hospital needing a blood transfusion ... refuse the blood of a Sikh who wasn't of Jatt ancestry in order to preserve the supposed purity of one's blood? I doubt it somehow

Borat = I think of this less about caste than about genetics. There is no "Indian" race, there is about 3 different races in India with different tradtions and customs.

London = Look into the human genome project Borat if you get some time. Not only will you see an extensive overlap of haplotypes amongst Punjabi's and Indians and all humans more generally ... it might open your mind to the possibility that caste is an artificial construct of classical Hindu philosophy. Of course the Prophet Muhammad also emphasised that nobility of family was a factor to consider in marriage and therefore de facto that is why the Pakistani Muslims wholeheartedly support the caste so fervently (even going to the extent of marrying their cousins to preserve their various Muslim Jatt, Muslim Rajput, Muslim Kamboh, Muslim Khatri aka Sheikh, Muslim Brahmin aka Butt castes etc)

Borat = Race is realty I'm afraid. It's not up for debate, it's an unchanging thing.

London = The whole theory of race has been utterly debunked. I take it you are aware that all of the posters on this forum share an ancestor in the scientific African Eve fossil DNA (one of many humans at the time). We might be Punjabi in 2012 but 100,000 years ago our ancestors looked more similar to today's East Africans than they did to us. It is scientifically proven that we are all inter-related though of course those that that marry their cousins can proudly boast of greater consanguinuity thanks to their pro-caste beliefs.

Borat = We don't have to treat people badly just because of the caste they were born in;

London = Glad you at least acknowledge that, thanks to Sikhi's teachings. Study what Vasakhi 1699 was about and you will grow to hate all remnants of the Hindu+Muslim caste systems that remain within certain Sikhs 313 years later.

Borat = Did the Gurus marry for love?

London = If your question was based on the false premise that the Guru's married according to cultural norms of the time then let me remind you that Mata Gujri Ji (mother of Guru Gobind Singh Ji was of Gujjar qaum ancestry ... which is an entirely different ancestry to the Sodhi line). Furthermore, knowing that the Guru's did not marry according to cultural norms, the Mughals employed historians that twisted family history to make it appear to the Sangat that jaath-paath was maintained when quite clearly we see Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj had no caste affiliation even prior to Vasakhi 1699 ... because the Muslims knew how dangerous a threat Sikhs represented to their Muslim empire as is evidenced by Banda Singh Bahadur, Ranjit Singh, Hari Singh Nalwa when all Sikhs were fully united regardless of background.

London = United we stand, divided we fall. Full stop.

Borat = That said, considering Sikhs are an ethnoreligious group.

London = Borat, Sikhs are not an ethnoreligious group. Four of the Punj Pyaaray were not Punjabi. One is not born into the Sikh faith per se. If we bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj in acknowledgement of the Truth about God it contains, that's what makes a person Sikh regardless of if they are from Africa or Russia or China or Bihar or Punjab. Mind you, in the UK census we can play the system to safeguard our rights.

[UKLondonSikh]

Probably because they harp on about caste more than any other group!

Shamshere, i think you forgot to add that the majority of the Sikh Panth's most aggressive enemies on the ground in 1947 and 1984 were Muslim Jatts and Hindu Jatts like the wretched Sajjan Kumar. Dehli Police in 1984 was comprised by a majority of Hindu Jatts and most of the land-grabbing in 1947 was by Muslim Jatts. Not forgetting the countless grooming cases perpetratred by Pakistani Muslims in the UK, many of which are perpetrated by Mirpuri Muslim Jatts who speak the Potohari Punjabi dialect.

Essentially our enemies like to deliberately paint the Sikh Panth as being Jatt ... When the actual reality revealed by population statistics is that the overwhelming 80% majority of the Jatt qaum are in fact Muslim and Hindu. You might also be aware that the Birmingham based record label which is most prolific at pumping out the caste baqwaas mentality just happens to be owned by a pair of Muslim Jatts. This is something we need to address our concerns about to Mr Davinder Bal, who whilst he deserves credit for Sikh Channel, is simultaneously allowing untold damage to our youth in the UK via the caste+alcohol promoting music they are exposed to.

[dalsingh101]