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Raise Your Voice Against The Curse Of Casteism In The Sikhs


JSinghnz
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Shamshere, i think you forgot to add that the majority of the Sikh Panth's most aggressive enemies on the ground in 1947 and 1984 were Muslim Jatts and Hindu Jatts like the wretched Sajjan Kumar. Dehli Police in 1984 was comprised by a majority of Hindu Jatts and most of the land-grabbing in 1947 was by Muslim Jatts. Not forgetting the countless grooming cases perpetratred by Pakistani Muslims in the UK, many of which are perpetrated by Mirpuri Muslim Jatts who speak the Potohari Punjabi dialect.

Essentially our enemies like to deliberately paint the Sikh Panth as being Jatt ... When the actual reality revealed by population statistics is that the overwhelming 80% majority of the Jatt qaum are in fact Muslim and Hindu. You might also be aware that the Birmingham based record label which is most prolific at pumping out the caste baqwaas mentality just happens to be owned by a pair of Muslim Jatts. This is something we need to address our concerns about to Mr Davinder Bal, who whilst he deserves credit for Sikh Channel, is simultaneously allowing untold damage to our youth in the UK via the caste+alcohol promoting music they are exposed to.

actually most of the dirty scummy mirpuri paks in the uk r gujjars, not jatt. Also u keep saying that muslim jatts killed r ppl in 47', well wat about our ppl that killed in em in larger number in 47'? 300.000 sikhs died in partition, but 500,000+ muslims died. We have talked bowt this before bro, y go over old ground again?

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I work in I.T. so are my descendants going to say our baba was Techi... :toohappy: All new members welcome regardless what their elders were.... :yay:

Personally I feel it only becomes an issue when one sect feels they are superior over another, or individuals try and dominate in collective groups just because of which background they come from. Are there differences in upbringing, family life, boli, customs, lifestyles between different groups? Yes! Should anyone be discriminated because of their background? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

Should Gurdwaras be named after groups. DEFINITELY NOT!!!! Even if you change the gurdwara name that is not going to solve the problem because I've read various gurdwara's constitutions that state you can only join the committee if your belong to a particular group. Very Sad.

Blessed are the Gurdwaras who's members come from all walks of life, who have genuine pyaar for Sikhi and do seva because they want to serve the Sikh sangat for the betterment of the Sikh Panth.

SIKH and caste should never be used in the same conversation, PERIOD!!!!

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actually most of the dirty scummy mirpuri paks in the uk r gujjars, not jatt. Also u keep saying that muslim jatts killed r ppl in 47', well wat about our ppl that killed in em in larger number in 47'? 300.000 sikhs died in partition, but 500,000+ muslims died. We have talked bowt this before bro, y go over old ground again?

Don't believe the hype bruv. If you study the Mirpuri background you will find Jatts are the biggest demographic element amongst Mirpuri's Pakistani (Punjabi) Muslims. This is in spite of the fact that Mirpur tehsil falls within Kashmir state (due to Dogra rule after Ranjit Singh). For example, if you're standing outside a Ramgarhia Gurdwara in Luton, or a Bhatra Gurdwara in Southampton it would be inaccurate to therefore perceive that most UK Sikhs self-describe themselves as historically linked to the Ramgarhia Misl or the Bhat Sangat. But I'm willing to accept that the Mirpuri's you may have run into in Luton may often have been from a Gujjar background.

With respect to the partition statistics. Let's look at which Qaum suffered the most.

I don't accept your figures but let's say 500,000 Muslims died out of a total Muslim population in India of 100million at the time ... that equals 0.5% deaths within that Qaum. The lowest figures for Sikhs are that at the very least 5% of our Qaum was killed in 1947.

Statistically, we therefore suffered AT LEAST 10 times greater casualties on a per capita basis.

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Don't believe the hype bruv. If you study the Mirpuri background you will find Jatts are the biggest demographic element amongst Mirpuri's Pakistani (Punjabi) Muslims. This is in spite of the fact that Mirpur tehsil falls within Kashmir state (due to Dogra rule after Ranjit Singh). For example, if you're standing outside a Ramgarhia Gurdwara in Luton, or a Bhatra Gurdwara in Southampton it would be inaccurate to therefore perceive that most UK Sikhs self-describe themselves as historically linked to the Ramgarhia Misl or the Bhat Sangat. But I'm willing to accept that the Mirpuri's you may have run into in Luton may often have been from a Gujjar background.

With respect to the partition statistics. Let's look at which Qaum suffered the most.

I don't accept your figures but let's say 500,000 Muslims died out of a total Muslim population in India of 100million at the time ... that equals 0.5% deaths within that Qaum. The lowest figures for Sikhs are that at the very least 5% of our Qaum was killed in 1947.

Statistically, we therefore suffered AT LEAST 10 times greater casualties on a per capita basis.

tbh most mirpuri ive ever met r all gujjars, even if u go on their forums or discussions online or youtube comments, most seem 2 b gujjars, and the panjabi muslims (the few that u may get 2 meet), seem 2 b jatts or rajputs. But if wat u r sayin is true, then fair enuff, ur correct.

btw i dont if u were sayin hypothetically about ramgharia gurdwara in luton, bu there isnt one, theres only 1 gurdwara, which every1 goes 2, theres a ravidassi place, dunno whether its a gurdwara tho or wat.

also regarding partition, ur 100% correct, more of them lot died, but we ultimatley lost more, per percentage and of course land/business.

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Maybe this is why our Gurus all married within caste.

Shamshere, don't believe the lies peddled by Muslim historians against our Guru's. Mata Gujri Ji (Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's spouse and Mother of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Grandmother of the Sahibzadeh) was from a Gujjar qaum background, so this whole falsehood about the Guru's marrying into their own caste is an absolute lie. The Guru's never had any caste full stop ... just as every Amritdhari GurSikh formally renounces their erstwhile background upon Amrit. The Muslims realised that the Sikhs as a United force were unstoppable. Hence, they employed every trick in the book to segregate people of different ancestries despite what had occurred in 1699.

For example, many youth nowadays are not aware that around 90% of the Khalsa Warriors (who automatically erased their caste upon Amrit) in the Ramgarhia Misl were in fact descended from sections of the community not engaged in the same noble profession as Bhai Lalo Ji ... essentially that erstwhile Jatts, Khatri's, Tanners, Gujjars, Ranghrete, Brahmins, Julaha's, Nai's etc, etc from a diverse range of backgrounds made up the bulk of the Ramgarhia Misl forces.

What was unique about the Khalsa Sikhs was how they rejected the idiotic concept that the profession or tribe of a person's ancestors had any bearing upon a Khalsa's fitness for leadership. It would be nice if we the youth could at least strive to emulate that spirit by destroying the concept of jaath-paath completely ... with 1 United Gurdwara per locality for 1 Panth under 1 God

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My personal experience is a lot of people will say they don't believe in caste but to some degree they might. I mean how many amritdhari couples do you know that have married someone outside of their baradari? Sikhs belong to the Khalsa but end of the day we all know even if we don't believe in caste what your background is caste wise. I mean a amritdhari jatt will rarely marry a tarkan a tarkan marry a chammar or chammar marry a bihari bhayia who has took Amrit. Only when amritdhari Sikhs truly believe in no jath path and inter Marry will the wider punjabi community pay heed as you can say it till the cows come home but how many of the posters in this thread are married to or have a family member married to someone from a higher or lower baradari ? I think most of your families are from the same, even though you don't believe in caste.

This is a good point. But I think one reason "mixing" in marriages hasn't become more commonplace and taken on a bigger priority is the Sikh panth is not composed of several different castes/tribes that form an equal part of it.

60-70% of Sikhs are jatt

When one group forms such a majority, are they going to feel pressed to go out of their way and seek out someone from a different caste background when they are much more likely to keep encountering other jatts?

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@ Rebel ... great to know that the Sikh Sangat is more united in Luton than elsewhere in the country Rebel bro ... but Rebel bro we're 100% counting on brothers like you to ensure that our Ravidassia brothers join a single United Luton Gurdwara Sangat asap this decade

tbh paaji, i dont think any chamaars go 2 it, they jus go 2 the Guru Nanak Gurdwara, coz evrytime i walk past the ravidass place, its not very packed, and its just got hindus in it. One time wen i was a kid me n my cousin out of curiosity went inside, coz i didnt even kno wat ravidassi was/meant. Wen we went inside, no shaheed pictures inside, we saw guru granth sahib saroop, but they were doing aarti infront it, so we jus thort, oooooookay, this is weird n jus walked out. Yea the sangat round here r more together it appears, thast y im still shockd wen i c gurdwaras in othr cities/towns divided along tribal lines.

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Sadly the caste system is alive and well in Sikhi followers. From my contact with fellow Sikhs in the UK I would say 80-90% still believe in the caste system to a certain extent. Especially when it comes to marriage.

One particular caste in particular is obsessed with it, they think they are the greatest and try to belittle every other caste, will wear T-shirts saying they're proud to be that particular caste, will get private number plates for their cars containing their caste name, even though in the grand scheme of things they are not even high up. Some of them are so deluded that they say the Gurus were members of their caste when it's clear they were not! I have met plenty of Amritdharis who are members of this caste and shockingly they also demonstrate this behaviour.

I myself am not a member of this caste and whenever I have been asked what caste I am, it is always by a member of the above caste. I don't know what the obsession is. Like I said it's not like this caste is anywhere near being the highest caste.

Maybe the caste system has a certain place in rural India where people still do work related to their caste, so it makes sense for a girl to marry into a similar caste so that she knows how to perform those duties. Maybe this is why our Gurus all married within caste. But you shouldn't look down on other castes even if you do marry only within your own.

But in the cities and in the west there is no need whatsoever to marry someone of a similar caste because you are not doing work related to your caste.

Each caste is not a seperate race, that is complete nonsense, once again it is false information that is sadly propogated by the caste I mentioned above.

We are all the same ethnicity and to be honest we're not even that different (if at all) ethnically to people from other nearby states like Himmachal, Jammu, Haryana, Delhi, Rajasthan.

I do feel for the 'lower castes' like chamaars and chooras and I can fully understand why they call themselves Ravidassias and have their own gurdwaras. Ask yourself how would you feel if members from other castes would not eat at the same table as you, will not eat food from your house and consider you filthy. This is why the muslims of India wanted Pakistan because that's how we Sikhs and the Hindus treated them! So we should treat all Sikhs regardless of caste equally. It's only when you experience it first hand you know how it feels. Christian missionaries in India target people from these 'lower castes' and convert them to give them better self esteem. This will continue until this discrimination ends. I remember in my last trip to India, I was at a relative's house and the woman who cleaned the house was eating the roti my aunt gave to her outside the house and whenever she spoke to anyone she covered her face with a chunni. It was heartbreaking to see.

You are obviously referring to jatts here.

I am very critical of jatts, as I think they are probably the worst in the quam when it comes to maintaining rehat. How many jatts keep their kesh? How many jatts refrain from drinking? I say this being a jatt myself.

But while jatts have their shortcomings, there is another very big reason why any discussion of caste inevitably ends up with people blaming jatts for the majority of the quam's problems:

Most sikhs are jatt!!

Jatts numerically dominate and will naturally get blamed for most of the problems. Who is to say we would be any better off if a different caste/tribe formed such a majority?

Anyway, whatever shortcomings jatts have, they embraced Sikhi in larger numbers than any other group. Without jatts embracing Sikhi, Sikhi would not have much of a presence anywhere.

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This is why the muslims of India wanted Pakistan because that's how we Sikhs and the Hindus treated them!

well for starters, muslims n sikhs had the best of relations prior to the stupid bloodshed during partition, it was the HINDUS who never treated the muslims as their equals, nor did they ever allow muslims into their kitchens at home or let em drink water from the same khoo/well n tooti/tap. This was NOT the same case with sikhs and muslims, coz if it was, then no muslim wudda been allowed into our gurdwaras to eat langar/paani/chaa or do seva. Also most of the ppl who did kirtan in gurdwaras in pre partition panjab was in fact muslims, sufis/marasis, not our granthis. So if it were true that sikhs never treated muslims as equals, none of wat ive mentioned would of happened. My grandad told me that it was hindus, who HATED em.

yo check this video out, fast forward to watch from 7:00 onwards

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