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Dhunda Does It Again Beadbi Of Sri Dasam Granth


ladli-fauj
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  • 4 months later...

Oye Kalay Afghani Chelas! Sharam Karo!By metaphor (the stories of devis and devta are just their to show a teaching) you mean myth? Also do you think the story of Bhagat Prahlaad ji Maharaj being saved by Narsingh (half man and half lion) is a myth? Did Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj come as half man and half lion to this earth to save Bhagat ji?

Your questions are loaded, where a ignorant person has to agree with you no matter what. So before i start answering your questions i need pull your judgement away, which i am doing by asking you the top questions.

@only5 >> Absolutely Paji will take it to PM but I do believe certain stories are there to be interpreted metaphorically. If we start believing certain things literally we go down a slippery slope that the Hindu's, Muslims and Christians are all trapped within ie stories of virgin births, half-animal half-human gods, horses that fly from Mecca to Jerusalem and from there to outer space. Sikh ik vakhri Qaum ne.

Veerji, you are argueing with a nastik, possibily an agent. Just look at their views of Sant Jarnail Singh ji earlier, as for Dhunda he needs to get his, there is some info that most of Sangat does not know about him. Uklondonsikh really doesn't know what they are talking about, better to leave them in their own fantasy land.

@Gupt Paji >> I'm no agent. If having faith solely in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj gets one labelled a naastik then so be it. Sikha nu saday Guru tho koyee nai thor sakdha paamah kush vi koyee kavay! If I respect u as a fellow member of the Panth for repping our Qaum in Calgary, why not think outside of the box Paji and consider that perhaps not all Sikhs who have a different viewpoint to yourself are necassarily naastiks or agents. As for Sant Ji's soch and purity of thought and prem for the Panth I have never ever questioned or denigrated that. I am entitled to question the political strategy and political brinkmanship employed by Sant Ji (even though admittedly it is easier to disagree with the benefit of hindsight) and stress that we should look to our Guru Sahiban as the ultimate role models and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as the ultimate guide rather than anybody born in the 20th century.

12 = What allegation have I made that I need to provide proof for. Can you show me proof that the word's "Dusht Daman" are written in Sri Dasam Granth. I DO NOT believe in Durga worship in fact it is revolting. My point is that DG condemns hinduism in amazing ways, so how could it be pro-Durga?

UK = The whole "Dusht Daman" concept is, as you know mentioned in today's DG. The mention of Dusht Daman explicity is not required for the story to be present. Glad we agree that Durga Puja is a joke. Sadly Paji, i genuinely feel that the Dusht Daman (concept) story is clearly pro-Durga by its very nature. That's why the RSS Durga Pujari's love that story.

12 = Do you believe Jaap Sahib is one of the "legitimate" writings of DG. You keep saying you agree with parts which are in line with Gurmat. Either you are saying this without knowing which parts of DG are pro-Gurmat or why else are you scared to tell me which bani of DG do you believe is acceptable to the panth? Is Jaap Sahib pro-Gurmat?

UK = As i said before Paji i'm not debating with you to oppose Sri Jaap Sahib ... my issues lie with the anti-Sikh authors of parts like Charitropakiyan and those anti-Sikh forces that deliberately ascribed a fake ancestry to Guru Sahib in contradiction to the whole ethos of the Khalsa Panth.

12 = If the answer to two is yes, how do you possible think I can hold someone in credible esteem (Dhunda) when that person is seen committing beadbi by hiiting bani with a stick and abusing bani as seen in video/ Simple answers please rather than pasting a paragraph which goes around everywhere.

UK = Esteem for Dhunda Sahib is not required Paji. But it is necassary to refute points in the initial video this thread pertains to via logic rather than andha vishwaas or emotion.

12 = Dhunda told lies in his video. He said that DG kirtan can not be done as written in Rehit Maryada. The Maryada says "writings of the 10 prophets of Sikhism" can be sung in the hazoori of the 11th prophet. Why did he tell a lie? What giaan did Dhunda show in that video?

UK = Again I don't agree 100% with anything SSD says. I am merely agreeing with his position that Sri Anandpur Sahib should hold more historical relavance than Sri Hemkunt Sahib and that the entireity of today's DG was not authored by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj.

12 = Show me prove that DDT spoke out against DG haters. Show me one quote and I will say sorry, no point just doing a Jeonwala and stating so-called facts with no evidence. Please see in the video at 34.25

UK = It's out there on the net Paji. Calling those Khalsa that deny Guru Gobind Singh Ji was descended from Luv and Kush (ie Ram Chander) as "bemukh" is pretty clear cut.

12 = You dont even hold Singh Sahib Baba Bhindranwale in high esteem, even heretic Ragi Darshan/Ghagga/Jeonwala do? Your position is a bit like fingers in a lot of pies, not consistent. Say what you like about Sant Bhindranwale as a leader or politician or whatever, but when it comes to the giaan of Gurmat and Gurbani and Sikh history, Sant Ji was levels above the moorakh of today.

UK = Paji there's a difference between holding up our Guru Sahib as the role models of perfection and looking up to figures from more recent times. Like I said I think Banda Singh Bahadur Ji and Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa are my two of my primary non-Guru military inspirations and I won't apologise for that.

12 = I will fully admit. I have not had santhiya/havent read all of/haven't been taught meanings of 95% of DG. I am not in a position to say it is anti-Gurmat, as I have no proof that it is. I am the same as everybody in that everyone's first perception of DG is that it is the writing of the great 10th master. I dont not see any Durga/Shiva/Lakshmi/Rama/Sita/Vishnu/Ganesh or whoever you are coming out with given any importance in SDG. I see praise of Akaal Purakh.

UK = I'm certainly not complaining about those true sections of today's DG which are in praise of Akal Purakh and in resonance with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. I've repeatedly made clear what the objections are Paji.

12 = I HAVE BEEN HONEST, NOW YOUR TURN ANSWER THE FOLLOWING TWO QUESTIONS:

a) 12 = Is Jaap Sahib pro-gurmat? UK = I believe so

b) 12 = Which bani do you believe do be legitimate in DG? Name all the banis that you have personally done path of if you can please? UK = I have repeatedly made clear which parts do not resonate with SGGS Ji Maharaj and hence are anti-Gurmat elements authored by anti-Sikh scribes.

Jonny = One thing I will never understand about these Kala Afghani Naastiks. Sikhs are suffering from Drug abuse, alcoholism, Patitpuna(apostasy), the Dushts who killed Sikhs in and since 84 are still roaming free, hardly anyone is doing parchar of Sikhi so Sikhi can grow yet these people only see the Dasam Granth as an issue worthy to raise?

UK = Not here to defend Kala Afghana Jonny Paji but it would be intellectually dishonest to claim that those who do not believe Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was descended from a Hindu God in human form or do not believe that Charitropakhiyan was written by Dasme Pathshah ... have never voiced opinions about drugs, sharaab or various dushman of the Panth.

Jonny = I still remember a time before these Kala Afghani parchar became to famous, hardly anyone read or did parkash of Dasam Granth. When these heretics started their koor parchar, it made many pro dasam Granth Sikhs very overly defensive and for the first time in 80years we are seeing a resurgence of Sikhs going prakash of Dasam Granth, which until the rise of Kala Afghana was unheard of except for a few groups such as Nihangs.

UK = Increasing parallel parkash or de facto treatment of today's DG as somehow an equal of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is what has elevated this as an issue Paji post 1977

Jonny = These heretics are a GOI asset planted amongst us to confuse us so we will start fighting amongst each other instead of focusing on real Sikh issues such as tackling drug addiction, alcoholism, fake Gurudoms, apostasy and 84.

UK = Simply not true Paji. I would equally condemn anti-Charitropakhiyan elements if they were to allege that pro-Bachittar Natak elements don't care about the drugs epidemic, pakhandi's, alcoholism and facilitated 1984 for the benefit of a Congress victory.

Jonny = No one before Kala Afghana and his chelas had ever raised a finger at Dasam Granth. From the start Dasam Granth has always been a part of the Panth and all Sikh warriors, scholors, jathas/sampradhas supported this Granth. But these heretics are here just to creat controversies and spread confusion in the Panth.

UK = Paji there are specific parts of DG which are creating the controversy. Why not let both sides agree to disagree (as in the case of meat) and accept that both sides hold the opinions we do out of the sheer respect for Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj?

Jonny = Oye Kalay Afghani Chelas! Sharam Karo!

Only5 = I think Uklondonsikh got your point

UK = LoL Paji - not believing Charitropakhiyan was ever written by Dasme Pathshah does not equate to being a Kala Afghani chela. We should be careful of false words being ascribed to the father of the Khalsa Panth.

KhalistaniGunMan = i knew this UKLondonSikh was a fishy character

UK = Funny KGM Paji ... but how about answering some of the points I put to you in the thread?

------------------

In short, can anyone refute the points by Dhunda Sahib at the start of the thread or can both sides agree to disagree respectfully?

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Dhudha does not believe in

Existence of soul

Naam simran which is essence of sggs

waheguru as gurmantra

Reincarnation

karma

These are all core sikh beliefs. SGGS is full of myths and happenings from Hinduism Will dhundha disown sggs one day.Yes he and his anstik gang is going to do that.

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Dhudha does not believe in

Existence of soul

Naam simran which is essence of sggs

waheguru as gurmantra

Reincarnation

karma

These are all core sikh beliefs. SGGS is full of myths and happenings from Hinduism Will dhundha disown sggs one day.Yes he and his anstik gang is going to do that.

GPS Paji i believe what you have written is a misinterpretation of Dhunda Sahib's opinion. Obviously, you are entitled to believe what you have stated. Any my job isn't really to defend Dhunda Sahib's position on every little point. But I will attempt to respectfully give my take on what you written as your sincere younger brother within the Panth.

No Sikh will deny aathma flat out. SSD may have denied other's interpretation of what the soul is.

No Sikh will deny naam simran since doing seva gareeba vasthay is itself a form of Naam Simran

Again if the purity of thought towards Akal Purakh and meaningful practical real life actions are not there to accompany Vaheguru as Gurmantar ... it is my understanding that this is what SSD is objecting to in the context of your point.

Transmigration in the form Hindu scholars believe is most certainly not accepted. Sikh ik vakhri Qaum ne.

Karma means "actions in this life" in Sanskrit as opposed to the lies that Bipren tell that Sikhs had 1984 coming to us due to our sins from past lives.

No Gursikh will ever deny Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. It is unfair to assume SSD will do that if we do not interpret myths which our used to illustrate moral precepts literally. For example Paji, the concept of Ganesh having respect for his parents like Sarwan Puth is crystal pure. If, however, we literally start believing in half-man half-elephant type miracles it makes a mockery of our Panth's shaheeds from multiple Ghallughara's who never benefitted from miracles and the tens of millions killed in Slavery, by the Muslim Empires, by Western Colonialism and the Cold War.

Paji I do respect that you adhere to your position honestly with sincerity of faith in Sikhi but I humbly request that you see that others hold a different viewpoint to yourself whilst also still having 100% total faith in Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj (just like yourself)

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  • 1 month later...

So per your philosophy as well, naam simran is not repetition of waheguru Gurmantra.

UK = Not my philosophy Paji - according to Gurmat, Naam Simran is not restricted to simple repetition of Vaheguru (no matter how blessed that is in of itself)

GPS = Per you there is no reincarnation and there is no karma effect.

UK = No Paji i didn't say that. I said reincarnation in the form dictated by Manu Smriti and Hinduism is rejected by Gurmat.

UK = Indeed, karma in its original Sanskrit refers to this life - as opposed to what Manu would have us believe.

12 = this is boring

UK = Agreed Paji, we are going round in circles ... better for all of us to agree to disagree politely ... and continue the conversation on PM if need be ... whilst not losing sights of bigger issues facing the Panth

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