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Mixed Marriage At Baba Vadh Baghdad Singh This Saturday


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Can anyone on this forum prove that ALL Sikhs during the time of the Gurus all had kesh when they took part in the Anand Karaj ceremony? Would be difficult since kesh became requirement with the 10th master, not the 4th isn't it? Although I agree that both the bride and groom should believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru in order to be Sikh, the people calling for the non-Sikh to suddenly become keshadari is backwards since you're allowing "Sikh by birth" boys to have the ceremony done without this requirement. Completely hypocritical and therefore puts Sikhi in a bad light.

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i had one elder say to me, Sikhi is about equality, so non-Sikhs should be allowed to get married in a Gurdwara as the Gurdwara represents equality for all. i turned round and said, well if that's th

Good answer. This modern day, lefty, perverse interpretation of equality is NOT what the Gurus meant. Why don't we let people into the gurdwara with cigarettes, alcohol, head uncovered, shoes on ?....

It is not beadbi to marry a 'white person' or anyone of any race, and neither is it a 'problem'. The only problem and beadbi is someone non sikh or not willing to accept sikhi attempting to take part

who are fanatics please explain??

yes please explain who the fanatics are, maybe we can shed some light

He's right, there are definitely 'crazed fanatics' and intolerant ones involved in this debate. The ones who:

  • do not tolerate the Gurdwara's right to have a protocol and maryada
  • do not tolerate the hukamnamas written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Sri Akal Takhat Sahib
  • do not tolerate their parents right to have a say in who their life partner should be. The parents who brought you up and made you what you are, and you don't have the decency to ask their opinion in the most important decision of your life ? You just come home one day and TELL them that this is what you are going to do ? Yes, you are very tolerant, aren't you ?
  • do not tolerate the Sikhs right to wish to keep their faith alive and passed onto the next generation
  • do not tolerate the sanctity of marriage and the rights of parents to keep their daughter's chastity intact

It is these fanatical liberals/lefties who are the fanatic and intolerant ones here and NOT the Singhs who want the protocol of the Gurdwara respected. They are the ones who forcefully try to convert US to their liberal/lefty/secular way of thinking.

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Can anyone on this forum prove that ALL Sikhs during the time of the Gurus all had kesh when they took part in the Anand Karaj ceremony? Would be difficult since kesh became requirement with the 10th master, not the 4th isn't it? Although I agree that both the bride and groom should believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru in order to be Sikh, the people calling for the non-Sikh to suddenly become keshadari is backwards since you're allowing "Sikh by birth" boys to have the ceremony done without this requirement. Completely hypocritical and therefore puts Sikhi in a bad light.

I am a wrestler of the the Lord. I have tied a tall, plumed turban after meeting the Guru. Everyone have gathered to watch the wrestling match and the Lord Himself is present to behold it. The bugles play and the drums beat. The wrestlers enter the arena and circle around. I have thrown the five challengers to the ground and the Guru has patted me on the back. All have gathered together, but we shall return home by different routes. The #gurmukhs# reap their profits, while

manmukhs

lose their investment and depart. You are without color or mark. The Lord is seen to be manifest and present. Your devotees meditate on You by listening to Your Glories over and over; they are attuned to You, O Lord. I am the servant of the Lord age after age. The Guru has cut my bounds away. Nanak has searched, and found an opportunity and I shall not have to dance in the wrestling arena of life again. Simplified, the

Shabad

states that everyone has been born into this world and have gathered together. However, everyone will go to different routes when they die. The gurmukhs who love God and beat the five challenges (lust, anger, greed, emotional attachment, and ego) will be uplifted in the Kingdom of Lord and will never have to take birth again while the manmukhs who have only lived their life by selfish means loose the chance to meet God in their precious human life and take birth over and over again (

Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 74

Also when Guru Nanak Dev Ji was to get married, his parents got a pandit and the pandit started the fire to which Guru Nanak Dev Ji said ' No. I will not get married like this'. What he did was get a piece of paper and write 'Ik Onkaar, Satguru Prasaad '. This is the very first start of Gurbani and as time went on, the Gurus made is more and more perfect by added more verses thus finally making it complete. All the Gurus lived lifes as Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh Ji finalised it by created the Amrit ceremony as he started his departure from this world and left to his future children.

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Can anyone on this forum prove that ALL Sikhs during the time of the Gurus all had kesh when they took part in the Anand Karaj ceremony? Would be difficult since kesh became requirement with the 10th master, not the 4th isn't it? Although I agree that both the bride and groom should believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru in order to be Sikh, the people calling for the non-Sikh to suddenly become keshadari is backwards since you're allowing "Sikh by birth" boys to have the ceremony done without this requirement. Completely hypocritical and therefore puts Sikhi in a bad light.

Another famous Sakhi is when a Hindu has a tobacco field. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's horse would not go near ( see how much Giaan the horse has compared to these 'modern liberal 'Sikhs' ) - The owner of the field asked Guru Gobind Singh Ji to come and eat at his house to which Guru Gobind Singh Ji said I will come to you and become yours completely if you become one of mine, take Amrit and I am all yours. This is just a couple.

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i turned round and said, well if that's the case, why are we discirminating against Muslims in the langar then, we should have Halal meat served in the langar to cater for the Muslims as as clearly this is discrimination too....He had nothing to say after that!!!

NO it's not, how is it discriminating? Vegetarian food for muslims is halal. You would only have a valid point if the langar had meat served in it. If the uncle had nothing to say after he's not very bright or your telling porkies!

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So this might be irrelevant to this topic but I thought Baba Vadhbhag ji was part of Sikhi. I went there at the gurdwara last year and according to the big chart they had is that he was part of Guru Arjun Dev's family. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. I know that there is this dauli dhar where the spirits and stuff come out which i saw infront of my eyes. So my question is Dera Baba Vadhbhag JI part of of Sikhi?

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With Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj's Kirpa, the UK Sikh Naujawan have got this wedding stopped. The committee of the Gurdwara Baba Wadbhag Singh, Coventry were approached by the UK Sikh Naujawan and it was made clear that these interfaith sham marriages will not be tolerated.

The Committee contacted the family and explained that the marriage was not within accordance of the Sikh Rehat Maryada, and was also against the Akal Takhat Sandesh and would therefore be cancelled.

NOTE: There has been a lot of hate directed towards the Sikhs who oppose interfaith marriages both by the british media and unfortunately some sell-out Sikhs. These weddings are against the Sikh rules, as only a Sikh and Sikh can get married in the presence of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. If anyone has a problem with these marriages being stopped then please take it up with the Gurdwara Committees that book the marriages, as they know full well what the rules are and the correct protocols. The fault does not neccessarily lie with the family whose children are messed up, and to mess things up further, they have their Bhezti done in front of their friends and family. The Gurdwara Committees are fully responsible for these Void marriages taking place, and this should be addressed.

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@DaljitKaur24 (post #36)

There were many relatives of Gurus who did not believe in Gurmat and some of them actually even made unsuccessful claims to Guruships. Baba Vadbhag Singh’s lineage may very well be that. But he was expelled from Sikhi. He believed in doing miracles, exorcism of evil spirits, demons, ghosts and what is called “Black Ilam”. It was for that reason that his branch was expelled from main stream centuries ago. His followers however continued those practices. Recently, the main dera founded after his name has become very popular with people who believe that they are under the spell of evil spirits. But Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh was not part of Sikhi even though they kept claiming that they are Sikh. As far I know, till about 30 years ago they were not allowed back in. Up to that time they themselves were not too keen to become the part of main stream Sikhi as it would have required them to abandon their practices. However, seeing that some other deras which did not follow the Sikh maryada either, were flourishing and were being recognized by the Akal Takht Sahib, they also started to make requests to be allowed back in. They claim that their practices are just another side and a necessary side of Sikhi. However, I do not know whether they have been successful in their attempt. (I believe they were not allowed back in, but I may be wrong)

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What is the definition of Sikh? As someone stated that a non sikh got married to a sikh and does alot of seva and paath, but the reply was that she shouldn't have got married in a gurdwara as she has not converted. What does conversion mean, just changing their surname? What about the so called sikhs who don't do paath or seva are allowed to get married in the gurdwara just because ''their kids have a chance of becoming sikhs''.

Unless there is one rule for all, we can't judge someone.

Also for your information as far as I know, many itihaasik (historical) gurdwaras in India do not allow any Sikh whose not sabat surat to get married in the Gurdwara, if we want to stop non sikhs from getting married, we need to do the same with people from our own community as by being born into a Sikh family doesn't automatically makes you qualified.

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@DaljitKaur24 (post #36)

There were many relatives of Gurus who did not believe in Gurmat and some of them actually even made unsuccessful claims to Guruships. Baba Vadbhag Singh’s lineage may very well be that. But he was expelled from Sikhi. He believed in doing miracles, exorcism of evil spirits, demons, ghosts and what is called “Black Ilam”. It was for that reason that his branch was expelled from main stream centuries ago. His followers however continued those practices. Recently, the main dera founded after his name has become very popular with people who believe that they are under the spell of evil spirits. But Dera Baba Vadbhag Singh was not part of Sikhi even though they kept claiming that they are Sikh. As far I know, till about 30 years ago they were not allowed back in. Up to that time they themselves were not too keen to become the part of main stream Sikhi as it would have required them to abandon their practices. However, seeing that some other deras which did not follow the Sikh maryada either, were flourishing and were being recognized by the Akal Takht Sahib, they also started to make requests to be allowed back in. They claim that their practices are just another side and a necessary side of Sikhi. However, I do not know whether they have been successful in their attempt. (I believe they were not allowed back in, but I may be wrong)

Thanks for clarifying that. I had to go there because of in laws. You know one thing i dont understand is that in Sikhi we dont believe in spirits and exorcism because it doesnt exist? But it does right? I mean i saw it with my own eyes. I never used to believe that but i saw people possesed with spirits right in front of my eyes and the sevadaars were doing paath and talking to the spirits. I was totally shocked by that and curious and just sat watched what was going on. I wished it was written somewhere about all of this to make everything clear. Just so many unexplained things in Sikhi.

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Thanks for clarifying that. I had to go there because of in laws. You know one thing i dont understand is that in Sikhi we dont believe in spirits and exorcism because it doesnt exist? But it does right? I mean i saw it with my own eyes. I never used to believe that but i saw people possesed with spirits right in front of my eyes and the sevadaars were doing paath and talking to the spirits. I was totally shocked by that and curious and just sat watched what was going on. I wished it was written somewhere about all of this to make everything clear. Just so many unexplained things in Sikhi.

There is nothing unexplained in Sikhi. It is us who are too shallow in our knowledge of Sikhi.

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There is nothing unexplained in Sikhi. It is us who are too shallow in our knowledge of Sikhi.

Well this certainly is. Maybe you an kindly explain? Thanks. I dont mean to offend anyone i just like to be clarified about certain things

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Thanks for clarifying that. I had to go there because of in laws. You know one thing i dont understand is that in Sikhi we dont believe in spirits and exorcism because it doesnt exist? But it does right? I mean i saw it with my own eyes. I never used to believe that but i saw people possesed with spirits right in front of my eyes and the sevadaars were doing paath and talking to the spirits. I was totally shocked by that and curious and just sat watched what was going on. I wished it was written somewhere about all of this to make everything clear. Just so many unexplained things in Sikhi.

I think there's a difference between acknowledging the existence of something and believing in it, i.e. paying homage to it. That's how I look at it. I mean, doesn't Gurbani reference demons, etc? Does it, lol? I'm not sure but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.

One thing to be remembered: Nothing is above Gurbani. It is everything. Nothing can overcome Gurbani. The true Saints put us onto the path of Gurbani to overcome such issues.

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Thanks for clarifying that. I had to go there because of in laws. You know one thing i dont understand is that in Sikhi we dont believe in spirits and exorcism because it doesnt exist? But it does right? I mean i saw it with my own eyes. I never used to believe that but i saw people possesed with spirits right in front of my eyes and the sevadaars were doing paath and talking to the spirits. I was totally shocked by that and curious and just sat watched what was going on. I wished it was written somewhere about all of this to make everything clear. Just so many unexplained things in Sikhi.

Please read Gurbani on the subject. Also later will link to Sant Isher Singh ji Rara Sahib Wale, talking to a posessed boy. Is really a life changer for some people. Nothings unexplained, just we sometimes fail to understand it.
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I am a wrestler of the the Lord. I have tied a tall, plumed turban after meeting the Guru. Everyone have gathered to watch the wrestling match and the Lord Himself is present to behold it. The bugles play and the drums beat. The wrestlers enter the arena and circle around. I have thrown the five challengers to the ground and the Guru has patted me on the back. All have gathered together, but we shall return home by different routes. The #gurmukhs# reap their profits, while

manmukhs

lose their investment and depart. You are without color or mark. The Lord is seen to be manifest and present. Your devotees meditate on You by listening to Your Glories over and over; they are attuned to You, O Lord. I am the servant of the Lord age after age. The Guru has cut my bounds away. Nanak has searched, and found an opportunity and I shall not have to dance in the wrestling arena of life again. Simplified, the

Shabad

states that everyone has been born into this world and have gathered together. However, everyone will go to different routes when they die. The gurmukhs who love God and beat the five challenges (lust, anger, greed, emotional attachment, and ego) will be uplifted in the Kingdom of Lord and will never have to take birth again while the manmukhs who have only lived their life by selfish means loose the chance to meet God in their precious human life and take birth over and over again (

Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 74

Also when Guru Nanak Dev Ji was to get married, his parents got a pandit and the pandit started the fire to which Guru Nanak Dev Ji said ' No. I will not get married like this'. What he did was get a piece of paper and write 'Ik Onkaar, Satguru Prasaad '. This is the very first start of Gurbani and as time went on, the Gurus made is more and more perfect by added more verses thus finally making it complete. All the Gurus lived lifes as Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh Ji finalised it by created the Amrit ceremony as he started his departure from this world and left to his future children.

Great sakhi, however this is a very long way of not answering my query.

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