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I understand that it is important to understand the laavan and have faith in Guru Granth Sahib ji if you want to take part in Anand Karaj, but I have a question. I know of Raagis in India who get poor couples married infront of Guru Maharaj in a ceremony where a large number of couples are married- I consider this as a huge seva as people who can't afford anything are getting married in proper ceremonies, would people want to go and stop these forcefully aswell as some of the couples may not be Sikh?

Secondly I also don't understand that if we consider the human race as one, why don't we teach the couples getting married what the Anand Karaj means so they understand what they are doing, this includes Sikhs instead of forcefully stopping these weddings. Shouldn't the Gurdwara committees check whose getting married when they book the ceremonies instead of stopping it in the last minute and giving a chance to the media and everyone else to class sikhs as extremists.

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@ hench - You're right. It is the failings of the various committees who have allowed these marriages to go ahead over the years that has led to this situation. Again, their greed rather than concern for doing what is right has overruled maryada.

As for your point regarding education in terms of the Anand Karaj I think we must be completely honest. Some people don't care about what the Anand Karaj signifies. For most it is a ritual that is part and parcel of a classic Sikh wedding celebration --- and I include marriages where the bride and groom are both from Sikh households.

The way to tackle this issue is that people in our community must get serious and really think through what the Sikh marriage ceremony is about. It must be elevated to, dare I say, an Amrit sanchar in terms of importance and respect. Like I've said before if we see the Anand Karaj as a precursor to the "fun and games" - thus something to get out of the way ASAP - then how on earth is a non-Sikh going to respect it?

These are my opinions of course, especially the bit about elevating the Anand Karaj to Amrit Sanchaar-status in terms of importance.

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All sham Anand Karaj's now being booked are done so for money. parbandhaks have to be living in hole, under a rock, in a cave if they don't know about the Maryada.. and if they don't, their not fit to be a parbandhak anyway.

Therefore, these sham Anand Karaj's are a defiance by greedy anti-gurmat committee's.

Hence pre-planning is not possible, these weddings will have to be cancelled last min..

4 weddings have been stopped over the last few week..

More are planned... those that work with the community to resolve will remain gupt.. the rest.. expect last min protests

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I don't see the stopping of Anand Karaj marriages at the last minute by locking the gates as something to celebrate.

To me I feel like we are shooting ourself in the foot and then congratulating ourself about it.

The couple, in every single case, will get married regardless. Therefore, the issue rests on two main things.

Firstly, what defines an ordinary Sikh (as opposed to what constitutes true Amritdhari GurSikh). The historical definition of an ordinary Sikh was any person who bows down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. That obviously does not match precisely with current Rehit Maryada. However, when the Akal Takht Jathedar awards the title Panth Rattan Fakr-e-Qaum to PS Badal (or when the Jathedar gave a siropa to General Dwyer of Jallianwala Bagh massacre fame) as opposed to Justice Khalra then we need to be very vigilant that the Akal Takht jathedars place SGGS Ji's definition of a Sikh first rather than the modern definition which seeks to limit the number of Sikhs and thereby constrain our collective power as an enlarged but United Panth. Therefore, if two people bow down in full sharda before SGGS Ji Maharaj (and only ParmAathma can know the true sharda within someone's heart) then to all intents and purposes they are both clearly Sikhs (the fraudsters can also be exposed by having to confirm that they condemn gender inequality as espoused in the Bible, Quran etc). I wholeheartedly agree with the general direction of Luton Gurdwara's approach on a couple showing commitment to Sikhi (in fact we could even the extend that approach by widening it to all couples and to our Qaum's positive advantage by way of getting all Punjabi folks to adopt Singh and Kaur as their surnames).

Secondly, given that in each case the couple are getting married anyway ... we need to work out if it is better for us to alienate and lose two people humble enough to bow down to SGGS Ji Maharaj or should we in fact strive to ensure that they understand the fundamental truths behind including Singh and Kaur in their names and make a commitment that their children will be named so as well.

Our Guru is fundamentally beyond Beadbi on a spiritual level. Of course, we ourselves as Sikhs should never deliberately commit Beadbi but to extend the definition of Beadbi to include the Laavan - arguably the happiest moment of these couple's lives - when clearly they are receiving blessings simply to be in the presence of SGGS Ji Maharaj is something I have serious doubts about.

We definitely need to be vigilant in applying serious vetting when it comes to male grooms of aggressively proselytising Abrahamic faiths but we need to encourage others to maintain and strengthen their links to Sikhi not for the sake of our opinions on Beadbi but for the sake of the children of such marriages feeling welcome within the Panth rather than ostracised away from Sikhi.

Make no mistake, so-called mixed marriages will double from the levels of 2012 within just this decade alone ... we need to decide what's the right approach for the future right now ... copying Christians, Muslims and Jews ... all religions which condone Slavery ... should not be the way ... as if we had taken the time to engage with the Swindon groom ... any person would logically conclude that Sikhi is the truth in comparison to one of the Abrahamic faiths which condone Slavery.

Our Dera enemies are loving the approach taken at Swindon. Because just like how they mop up sehajdhari's due to our kattar-dha they will be at the forefront of encouraging such marriages in an effort to discredit Sikhi. By ourselves complicitly + willingly limiting the number of future Sikhs, we have to be careful we don't inadvertently commit a bigger Beadbi against SGGS Ji Maharaj when it is a Universal message of Truth which needs a greater audience for Sarbat da Bhala. I also have respect for everyone who wishes to uphold Rehit Maryada but I think we need to seriously think outside of the box on this matter because mixed marriages will only double and treble in the coming years. Either we can de facto get smaller and smaller as a Panth and limit the definition of a Sikh to as small a minority as possible (like our enemies want to see us do) or we can try to widen the audience of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj for the sake of the greater good of the whole of humanity.

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Some good points about committees, one thing still unanswered is I wanted to know what about the marriages in India when many poor couples are married in one big ceremony, what about those who are not Sikhs in those couples, surely it is a very big seva of getting underprivileged couples married in proper ceremonies.

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I don't see the stopping of Anand Karaj marriages at the last minute by locking the gates as something to celebrate.

To me I feel like we are shooting ourself in the foot and then congratulating ourself about it.

The couple, in every single case, will get married regardless. Therefore, the issue rests on two main things.

Firstly, what defines an ordinary Sikh (as opposed to what constitutes true Amritdhari GurSikh). The historical definition of an ordinary Sikh was any person who bows down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. That obviously does not match precisely with current Rehit Maryada. However, when the Akal Takht Jathedar awards the title Panth Rattan Fakr-e-Qaum to PS Badal (or when the Jathedar gave a siropa to General Dwyer of Jallianwala Bagh massacre fame) as opposed to Justice Khalra then we need to be very vigilant that the Akal Takht jathedars place SGGS Ji's definition of a Sikh first rather than the modern definition which seeks to limit the number of Sikhs and thereby constrain our collective power as an enlarged but United Panth. Therefore, if two people bow down in full sharda before SGGS Ji Maharaj (and only ParmAathma can know the true sharda within someone's heart) then to all intents and purposes they are both clearly Sikhs (the fraudsters can also be exposed by having to confirm that they condemn gender inequality as espoused in the Bible, Quran etc). I wholeheartedly agree with the general direction of Luton Gurdwara's approach on a couple showing commitment to Sikhi (in fact we could even the extend that approach by widening it to all couples and to our Qaum's positive advantage by way of getting all Punjabi folks to adopt Singh and Kaur as their surnames).

Secondly, given that in each case the couple are getting married anyway ... we need to work out if it is better for us to alienate and lose two people humble enough to bow down to SGGS Ji Maharaj or should we in fact strive to ensure that they understand the fundamental truths behind including Singh and Kaur in their names and make a commitment that their children will be named so as well.

Our Guru is fundamentally beyond Beadbi on a spiritual level. Of course, we ourselves as Sikhs should never deliberately commit Beadbi but to extend the definition of Beadbi to include the Laavan - arguably the happiest moment of these couple's lives - when clearly they are receiving blessings simply to be in the presence of SGGS Ji Maharaj is something I have serious doubts about.

We definitely need to be vigilant in applying serious vetting when it comes to male grooms of aggressively proselytising Abrahamic faiths but we need to encourage others to maintain and strengthen their links to Sikhi not for the sake of our opinions on Beadbi but for the sake of the children of such marriages feeling welcome within the Panth rather than ostracised away from Sikhi.

Make no mistake, so-called mixed marriages will double from the levels of 2012 within just this decade alone ... we need to decide what's the right approach for the future right now ... copying Christians, Muslims and Jews ... all religions which condone Slavery ... should not be the way ... as if we had taken the time to engage with the Swindon groom ... any person would logically conclude that Sikhi is the truth in comparison to one of the Abrahamic faiths which condone Slavery.

Our Dera enemies are loving the approach taken at Swindon. Because just like how they mop up sehajdhari's due to our kattar-dha they will be at the forefront of encouraging such marriages in an effort to discredit Sikhi. By ourselves complicitly + willingly limiting the number of future Sikhs, we have to be careful we don't inadvertently commit a bigger Beadbi against SGGS Ji Maharaj when it is a Universal message of Truth which needs a greater audience for Sarbat da Bhala. I also have respect for everyone who wishes to uphold Rehit Maryada but I think we need to seriously think outside of the box on this matter because mixed marriages will only double and treble in the coming years. Either we can de facto get smaller and smaller as a Panth and limit the definition of a Sikh to as small a minority as possible (like our enemies want to see us do) or we can try to widen the audience of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj for the sake of the greater good of the whole of humanity.

Great points, but I wouldn't bother sharing them on this site, it's filled with pakhandi 'faujis' that think that they're fanatical taliban views are something to be applauded, mods usually included, half the time a post like yours doesn't even show up on the site since it's so heavily censored against reasoned posts.

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Valid points by UKLondonSikh as usual, but in summary (and rather simplistically) I'll say you give too much credit to the couples involved in these kind of marriages. Most (I won't say 'all') have no interest in obtaining blessings from Guru Granth Sahib Ji or anything on a spiritual level. To convey such couples as some victims of a vast spiritual injustice which some over-zealous Singhs will have to repent for in-front of Dharam Raaj is rather inaccurate.

I do agree that a balance must be struck between making Guru Granth Sahib Ji available for those drawn to Sikhi, as well as ensuring maryada is upheld.

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I posted this on another thread, take it whatever you will:

After reading the replies from both sides on facebook for last couple of days...and after some deep thought ..i have changed my stance earlier as sikh is always evolving should have strong character to admit its shortcoming in bibek buddhi and keep striking for right balance towards Gurmat listed in sri akaal ustat sahib..

Both sikh right wing thought and sikh hippy liberal thought have to be controlled by sri akaal takth sahib..as they say you give them (both of above thoughts/mindset) arm, they want whole leg!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I think after swindon case, this type of situation can easily turn into volatile as tempers could get high on both sides and divide the community,have chain reaction negative impact.. so we need to do something the problem is we are reactive community not proactive, i honestly think sri akal takth sahib should have meeting on this issue - bring out all the samparda'vs together- nirmale, nihangs, udasi, sevapanthis, taksal and jathedars of all takth work out solution which is fair to both sides. I hate to see hippie sikh liberals take further in liberalism and keep mocking anand karaj vows whats next? inviting mullah in gurdwara so he can read kalma for non - sikh/sikh to have muhammad sahib as witness, i also equally hate to see right wingers hijacking the whole "sanctity of anand karaj" campaign and start fear mongering, intimidation, threats and cause further divides in the community.

The underlining issue here is anand karaj itself and vows in it which is advising both partners as one to walk on guru's path- Sikhi set by guru themselves, if there is no intention as non sikh to follow sikhi why bother with anand karaj vows?

i think its not as black and white people seem to make it.. i think onus finally lies at sri akaal takth sahib jatehdar to accomdate everyone in sikh marriage - for eg a) Anand karaj ceremony for those who are serious following anand karaj vows instead of making it mockery by marrying an non sikh b) Generic ceremony for those who are not on the path yet, have generic ceremony by sikh chaplain (first giving important education of anand karaj ) then reciting verses from sri guru granth sahib or recite Vahiguroo naam few times to get people married as Sri Guru Granth sahib ji updesh- naam simran is sanjha for every human being. I really think meeting should be held in sri akaal takth sahib to modify sikh marriage to make it accommodating for everyone without loosing sanctity of anand karaj vows being mocked.

Jonny veer,

There are complications that our leaders need to get together to work out solution by providing striking an right balance:

I am sorry but asking non sikh (follower of any dharam) who is marrying sikh to "convert" to sikhi during or prior sikh marriage goes against very ideal -"freedom of religion" set by sri guru tegh bahudar ji when he gave shaheedi so that kashmiri pandit can practice their dharam with freedom..so we know if we make non sikh to convert to sikhi in anand karaj an policy (regardless however one spins it)..it will clash with very ideals of freedom of religion shown pratically by sri guru tegh bahudar..so why create such situation at the first place?? Here are the only options i can think of regarding this issue either-

a) outright refuse the non sikh marrying sikh make it policy... not even pro-actively put an condition of non sikh converting to sikhi as it goes against ideal someone's freedom of religion if someone willing to convert thats a different story so if we outright ban it off course we loose whole potential generation of sikhs potentially coming to Sikhi fold from sikh side (who married non sikh) or who knows from both sides.

b) isolate anand karaj for time being from sikh marrying non sikh by introducing sikh chaplain service.However with that being said, also make anand karaj even more sacred one follow with utmost satkar if they are fully willing on their own agree and ready to walk path of Guru sahib- continue educating on importance of anand karaj in sikh life to both sikh marrying sikh, sikh marrying non sikh ....get our leaders to get together- make provisioning in sikh marriage create a generic sikh marriage to bless the couples...good thing about this - we won't un-intentionally put off punjabi who have no idea about sikhi, they be still connected to gurdwara - free concept of langar, seva, simran etc. We still giving them options without loosing sanctity of anand karaj, marriage time is very stressful for both families..things could go from bad to worst in very little time.

c) continue with this campaign to block non sikh weddings all together- surely with good intention of saving sanctity of anand karaj but without looking at broader chain reaction effect...i m sorry to say- just look at the effect we are loosing big chance of "bridging" with mona's punjabis...sikhi is pyaar the marg, according to my observation this campaign is been perceived as militant, close minded, rigid fanatical campaign. We must re-think our approach..if we haven't won our punjabi public opinion then there is an issue- its meant to do good but its having reverse effect..we need to re-think our approach and engage our leaders to hold up an meeting on this.

Also regarding muslims or right wing christians:

We just need to put safeguards in place where sikh(female) marrying non sikh if its right wing muslim or right wing christian that would try to convert her 100%) so just to be in the safe side, have sikh female take spiritual oath providing its allegiance to khalsa panth so at least at the back of her head she would think twice and leave it at that.

I don't know...What you guys think?

Regarding freedom of religion, i am sorry that how i perceive it and i m sure lot of people feel the same way. When we ask non sikh to convert in anand karaj (regardless how one justifies it)its going against ideals of freedom of religion shown practically by sri guru tegh bahudar ji by his shaheedi and on second hand if we don't ask non sikh to convert, its going against very vows of anand karaj (sidhant of anand karaj itself) to walk together as one to path of Guru. I think its dangerous mix either way..and i think sooner we realize and accept - anand karaj and non sikh having anand karaj ceremony are not compatible period sooner we solve this by striking an right balance. Off course just simply saying - anand karaj and non sikh wedding are not compatible andbanning its not a solution either as i mentioned earlier i think we need to provide them with alternatives ( i have already suggested but main thing sangat define it, leaders define it) for eg- allow them to come to gurdwara and matha taik and do ardass on their own to guru maharaj and ask for blessing together in ardas ...i understand its not gurmat to marry someone out of religion, the fact is we have to face the reality, there is difference between idealist and realist world... its already too late, no luvly-dubly couple will break up and follow guru's path all of sudden (unless its maharaj apar kirpa), religious/spiritual development takes times and comes in stages.. sikh made up his/her mind to marry an non sikh- partial damage is already done.

The real onus is now on us to decide- whether to fix the damage by patching or make their relationship with sikhi even more damaging.

a) we could either- totally put them off by banning them to get married in gurdwara- we potentially loose generations of potential sikhs coming from potential sikh marry non sikh or both.

b) provide options/alternative without loosing sanctity of anand karaj, so atleast - oh gurdwara- (sangat/free concept of langar/seva/kirtan/katha) naal ta joraie rehan..you never know when maharaj does kirpa among in sangat in gupti roop bring someone closer to him.

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Great points, but I wouldn't bother sharing them on this site, it's filled with pakhandi 'faujis' that think that they're fanatical taliban views are something to be applauded, mods usually included, half the time a post like yours doesn't even show up on the site since it's so heavily censored against reasoned posts.

UK = HSM Paji, I'm glad that you share the viewpoint that Swindon was in fact a big setback for us. However, one thing I think we must respect is that the naujawaan involved in Swindon did so truthfully in good faith that Rehit Maryada was not being upheld. In other words "oh'na de man vich oh say-hee sig-gay". And if we as Sikhs can consistently see that within counterpoints which disagree with our own views, then we will be a lot closer to arriving at a common sense consensus of opinion for the long term benefit of the Panth. Satkaar Campaign do a great job overall, as do Sikh Youth Project ... but let's put our point to them as our Sikh brothers and sisters with pyaar rather than labelling them as extremists or racists or pakhandi's like Grewal+Dhillon of the Radha Saomi's.

Kaljugi = Valid points by UKLondonSikh as usual, but in summary (and rather simplistically) I'll say you give too much credit to the couples involved in these kind of marriages.

UK = Fair point Paji, I daresay you are correct, but I think you understood why those that thought Swindon was a setback have the viewpoints we do. As long as all shades of the spectrum of opinion maintain SGGS Ji Maharaj as our guide with the future of the Panth and Sarbat da Bhala in mind then I think we can turn what happened at Swindon to our advantage by being ready for the future of ever increasing mixed marriages.

Kaljugi = Most (I won't say 'all') have no interest in obtaining blessings from Guru Granth Sahib Ji or anything on a spiritual level.

UK = You could well be right Paji but even the fact that (for whatever reason) they are prepared to be in Guru Sahib's hazoori lays the foundation block from which we can enhance their links to Sikhi (instead of severing them + their children away from Sikhi potentially forever)

Kaljugi = To convey such couples as some victims of a vast spiritual injustice which some over-zealous Singhs will have to repent for in-front of Dharam Raaj is rather inaccurate.

UK = Yep Paji, I wouldn't quite go that far myself ... but if the repercussions of the Swindon action + elsewhere are that such couples and their children completely lose all contact with their local Gurdwara and Sikhi then that really is something that upsets me hugely as that would represent a huge lost opportunity which benefits everyone ... the couple, their future children + the Panth.

Kaljugi = I do agree that a balance must be struck between making Guru Granth Sahib Ji available for those drawn to Sikhi, as well as ensuring maryada is upheld.

UK = Yep I think N30 Paji has really come up with some serious thoughts that could potentially strike the type of balance you talk about Paji. N30 Paji's idea upholds the sanctity of the Anand Karaj for Amritdhari GurSikhs whilst ensuring that sehajdhari couples and examples like the Swindon couple are also still bought closer to the truth of Sikhi. I think the whole idea of pre-marriage guidance from the local Gurdwara to increase knowledge of Sikhi and the responsiblity of truthful and compassionate conduct it places on husband and wife could be the way to turn a negative PR situation like Swindon into a long term positive for the Panth.

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I don't see the stopping of Anand Karaj marriages at the last minute by locking the gates as something to celebrate.

To me I feel like we are shooting ourself in the foot and then congratulating ourself about it.

The couple, in every single case, will get married regardless. Therefore, the issue rests on two main things.

Firstly, what defines an ordinary Sikh (as opposed to what constitutes true Amritdhari GurSikh). The historical definition of an ordinary Sikh was any person who bows down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. That obviously does not match precisely with current Rehit Maryada. However, when the Akal Takht Jathedar awards the title Panth Rattan Fakr-e-Qaum to PS Badal (or when the Jathedar gave a siropa to General Dwyer of Jallianwala Bagh massacre fame) as opposed to Justice Khalra then we need to be very vigilant that the Akal Takht jathedars place SGGS Ji's definition of a Sikh first rather than the modern definition which seeks to limit the number of Sikhs and thereby constrain our collective power as an enlarged but United Panth. Therefore, if two people bow down in full sharda before SGGS Ji Maharaj (and only ParmAathma can know the true sharda within someone's heart) then to all intents and purposes they are both clearly Sikhs (the fraudsters can also be exposed by having to confirm that they condemn gender inequality as espoused in the Bible, Quran etc). I wholeheartedly agree with the general direction of Luton Gurdwara's approach on a couple showing commitment to Sikhi (in fact we could even the extend that approach by widening it to all couples and to our Qaum's positive advantage by way of getting all Punjabi folks to adopt Singh and Kaur as their surnames).

Secondly, given that in each case the couple are getting married anyway ... we need to work out if it is better for us to alienate and lose two people humble enough to bow down to SGGS Ji Maharaj or should we in fact strive to ensure that they understand the fundamental truths behind including Singh and Kaur in their names and make a commitment that their children will be named so as well.

Our Guru is fundamentally beyond Beadbi on a spiritual level. Of course, we ourselves as Sikhs should never deliberately commit Beadbi but to extend the definition of Beadbi to include the Laavan - arguably the happiest moment of these couple's lives - when clearly they are receiving blessings simply to be in the presence of SGGS Ji Maharaj is something I have serious doubts about.

We definitely need to be vigilant in applying serious vetting when it comes to male grooms of aggressively proselytising Abrahamic faiths but we need to encourage others to maintain and strengthen their links to Sikhi not for the sake of our opinions on Beadbi but for the sake of the children of such marriages feeling welcome within the Panth rather than ostracised away from Sikhi.

Make no mistake, so-called mixed marriages will double from the levels of 2012 within just this decade alone ... we need to decide what's the right approach for the future right now ... copying Christians, Muslims and Jews ... all religions which condone Slavery ... should not be the way ... as if we had taken the time to engage with the Swindon groom ... any person would logically conclude that Sikhi is the truth in comparison to one of the Abrahamic faiths which condone Slavery.

Our Dera enemies are loving the approach taken at Swindon. Because just like how they mop up sehajdhari's due to our kattar-dha they will be at the forefront of encouraging such marriages in an effort to discredit Sikhi. By ourselves complicitly + willingly limiting the number of future Sikhs, we have to be careful we don't inadvertently commit a bigger Beadbi against SGGS Ji Maharaj when it is a Universal message of Truth which needs a greater audience for Sarbat da Bhala. I also have respect for everyone who wishes to uphold Rehit Maryada but I think we need to seriously think outside of the box on this matter because mixed marriages will only double and treble in the coming years. Either we can de facto get smaller and smaller as a Panth and limit the definition of a Sikh to as small a minority as possible (like our enemies want to see us do) or we can try to widen the audience of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj for the sake of the greater good of the whole of humanity.

Think outside the box of rehit maradya ? So much wrong in this post, wont respond to it all over phone.

Good one..... If anything we need to try and focus on maintaining marayda rather than changing more. Sikhi has always been about quality rather than quanitity. The one thing we need right now is more parchar, one thats 100% in line with rehit marayada, where people can attain the understanding behind the rehit. Yes we should also be happy that marayda was upheld contrary to what you say.

N30 ji , i agree with your points we do need an alternative, fact is Laavan in front of Maharaj ji is beadbi. The thing is , how are these ideas purposed to the jathedhars?

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Gupt = Think outside the box of rehit maradya ?

UK = Only in those instances, where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj guides us contrary to what the Jathedars mandated in 1950.

Gupt = Sikhi has always been about quality rather than quanitity.

UK = Paji i 100% agree with you in as far as that relates to Amritdhari GurSikhs. Without a doubt we are better off having fewer but more committed and pavithar examples of GurSikhi jeevan ... but in as far as overall combined Sikhs numbers including sehajdhari's go ... i respectfully request you Paji to realise that numbers are integral to the worldly equation ... if we truly want this Planet to live in peace, harmony and happiness for Sarbat da Bhala according to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Sikhs comprise 1.8% of the population in India and 0.9% of the population in the UK and Canada where we are next most well represented. Globally, we represent 0.4% of the human race. Of course, in the bigger scheme of things we are therefore hardly in a position to influence the world for the better except in limited pockets where we have somewhat of a critical mass. We need at least 100million Sikhs minimum within our lifetime (that I envision would be overwhelmingly sehajdhari) to have any kind of ability to influence a World whereby there is no hunger, 100% literacy, universal free healthcare etc. So long as we remain tiny in numbers, then we can forget about helping others and can continue struggling just to survive ourselves. I hope you feel where I'm coming from and why. But I totally respect your position of strict adherence to the 1950 Rehit Maryada and I cannot criticise you for that Paji. Rabh Rakha

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