Bhagat Ravidass And Ravidassias.

[13Mirch]

I tend to find that this caste thing in Sikhi is a retaliatory action of sorts. A stupid singer sings "Jattan de putt" and next day u get a "Chamara de putt."

[UKLondonSikh]

Question to the forum Sangat.

What did your Gurdwara Committee do today in order to mark and educate the Sangat about Dhan Dhan (Guru) Ravidas Ji Maharaj given the Janam Diwas?

Please note that Guru does have a simple Sanskrit meaning of (Great) Teacher in a non-Sikhi and non-GurGadhee sense - hence I have no problem using the term given that Dhan Dhan Ravidas Ji Maharaj's shloks are within Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj whereas for example, some of our Guru Sahib's (who were one jyot) are not. And correspondingly since our current Guru contains Dhan Dhan Ravidas Ji Maharaj's words I don't think we should be overly sensitive about terms of respectful address - particularly so when we are interacting with those under the influence Dera Ballan Congress ideology.

[Guest dasguruka]

I think all the mahapurshs respect each other and they never look at it differently because they're all bhagats. I think it's only the people who look at it from the outside have this mentality in their minds that these sects work differently. They all follow/preach Sikhism. As far as the songs go, that's just anti-sikh powers opposing Sikhism and trying to create rifts between the two parties.

-Religion ends where God begins

[gsinghysingh]

Fateh

Im not a ravidassi or from the particular community, its really annoying when the word hindu or indra are including in desri ing the believes of this community. This community belive and have done what thve done because they were forced out by the higher arcy of the sikh communnity (the jatts), i have nothing aggainst the jatt community its jist the truth. Dont cry aboht hiw these people are doing beadbi of sikhism when the foundation was laid by others. One day we will all co e together its such a shame.

[sat]

If we all took Khande De Pahul, ( Amrit) there would be no castes so all of those people who have not taken it and do not live by rehat, will continue to as Maharaj says, rehat bina dar chota kaveh, its as simple as that, so stop blaming each other or trying to blame one more than another.

That is the hard truth except it or not. Bhagat Ravidass was not for the chamars he was for all humanity, he had no caste he was above that nonsense. so no caste should say they worship him because he was one of them, that just takes them away from his principles, likewise no one should refer to him to belong to a particular sect he like all the Gurus and Bhagats were and are for all humanity to learn from and make our lives better for our selves and others, and to be one with the supreme being Waheguru ji, which is what they all tell us in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj,

Do not to seperate them and say he is ours more than another.

Any one who does do that is a fool and should be ignored!!, Like Maharaj ji says dont argue with fools.

WJKK WJKF

[gsinghysingh]

Fateh

Sat you are spot on

[UKLondonSikh]

Fateh

Im not a ravidassi or from the particular community,

That's the thing brother - all Sikhs are Ravidassia by virtue of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj being what we bow down to daily. Similarly, anyone whose ancestors followed the same or similar occupations as Dhan Dhan (Guru) Ravidas Ji Maharaj that were utterly despised by the Hindu's and Muslims was inseparable from the Sikh Panth until Indira and the RSS thought up this clever method to exploit the discriminatory thinking of some who claim to be Sikh - yet obviously understand nothing of Sikhi's central message of equality.

its really annoying when the word hindu or indra are including in desri ing the believes of this community. This community belive and have done what thve done because they were forced out by the higher arcy of the sikh communnity (the jatts), i have nothing aggainst the jatt community its jist the truth. Dont cry aboht hiw these people are doing beadbi of sikhism when the foundation was laid by others. One day we will all co e together its such a shame.

UK = I think you are wrong my friend. There is no hierarchy within Sikhi. Study the life and shaheedi of Bhai Sangat Singh - who was despised and abused by his village Qazi and Pandit alike as being "a mere Chamar" according to the Muslims and Hindu's yet Guru Gobind Singh Ji appointed to lead our Sikh Panth's forces at Chamkaur Sahib. So what has happened is a combination of factors with Indira benefitting from certain casteists Jatts and corrupt Mahants like Garib Dass of Dera Ballan who worked for Indira.

UK = It's important to realise that Sikhi is not to blame. Titles such as Ravidassia, Ramgarhia and Ahluwalia are saanjha to the whole Qaum in terms of the pride they should instill in us. And yes one day we will all come together. But that day needs to be before 2021 census in Punjab or Sikhi will be in the minority in Punjab by then. We basically have eight years maximum to rid ourselves of this cancer or face the consequences.

UK = United Gurdwaray and an end to educational, financial, residential, health and matrimonial discrimination are part of the solution.

[sweetshera]

How can you prove that Congress set this up? They hate dalits lol!

Also aint most ravidasi living outside the punjab and they r not sikhs?

[singh598]

Bhagat Ravidas was given the nice warm lap of Satguru Nanak to sit in, ie Satguru gave equal respect to the Satguru's of all the 15 bhagats and gave equality to all the different castes.

Now the Balla wale Sant that were killed were many times told not to offend Sikhs by sitting on a equal palaquin to the Guru Granth Sahib. He showed arrogance and was quite righly killed. The next sant at Balla dera he is doing the same, hence annomisity and quarrel has arose amongts chamars and all Sikhs particularly jatts because they beleive most Sikhs in the punjab as jatts. Now they want and have created their own religion they have there own jaikara they worship only the bani of bhagat Ravdass Ji.

So now like Kabeer Panthis who belive and worship Kabeer and his sacred writings (some are in the Guru Granth Sahib though he hjas written alot more), now the chamaars are calling themselves Ravidassias. If they want to seperate themselves from Sikh nation although they have called themselves Sikhs for ages whilst some worship Bhagat Valmik they did not need to do beadbi of Gurbani. When the Ramananda Saint used to sit equal to Guru Granth Sahib he is infact sitting equal to Bhagat Ravdass Ji Maharaj.

They call Bhagat Ravdass Guru although he himslef always considered himslef a saint/bhagat.

In my opionion the chamaar community have taken a step backwards and done more damage to further alienate the communities. Now Chamaars always look at Sikhs/jatts with particular hatred

[singh598]

I believe some Central Government politics has also been going on to support Dalits and Dera Balla. Note that after thousands of years now Dalits are sarpanch of villages where the majority are Jatt.

The fact is that Dalits, Tarkaan, Brahmin, Jatts and all other castes have lived peacefully and harmoniusly in India. Every caste goes about their own work and everyone shows humanity and love when talking to other communities.

The aim of GOI is to use Dalits to weaken Sikhs of Punjab who are majority jatt and full faith in Sikhism.

Jatt Sikhs in Punjab have a mentality that Dalits are untouchable and should be shunned, the new generation of jazzy B lookalikes have been fighting with dalits calling them low caste. I think Sikhs should adopt the philosophy of Sikhism which is to treat all individuals with the same basic tenets of humanity, love and ethics.

The Punjabi politicians such as Akali Dal and Badal have not utilized the potential of the Dalit Community in helping address their basic social concerns/human rights although vast majority of them are Sikhs. They have not been integrated so much as other castes. The GOI are scarred like a cat of the potential of Sikhs (in 1984 we were a wisker away from autonomy and self determination) so they tapped into the resource of the Dalits and used them to break them away from mainstream Sikhism

During 1984 period i agree with one members post see below:

Indira Gandhi realised that as Sikhs of this ancestry comprised the second largest demographic element of our Panth after Jatts (yet faced discrimination primarily from the same) ... she realised that if this integral demographic component could be split away from the Sikh Panth it would be as if one of our Panth's arms was cut off. Hence, an elaborate plan was hatched with the Dera Sachkhand Ballan boss at the time (Garib Dass - who despite the name was very wealthy thanks to the funding Indira fed him) that in order for him to split Ravidassia Sikhs away from the Panth, a new place of worship in Uttar Pradesh was required, a new Hindu-friendly bani to split Ravidassia Sikhs away from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj had to be created and in order to create a separate identity a different Jaikara and Nishaan Sahib were required too. In short, the aim of Indira and Garib Dass was a wholesale transformation of erstwhile Sikhs into Hindu's so that instead of such Sikhs worshipping at their local Gurdwara's (which were predominantly saanjhay at the time) to get erstwhile Punjabi Sikhs to worship at a Mandir in UP so that the local Hindu shopkeepers in Varanasi could simultaneously profit (in return for their loyal support to Congress in 1980 and 1984).