Krishna In Sikhism

[chatanga]

but do not show your lack of civility on our forum.

I havent shown any disrespect or lack of civility yo anyone, ji.

[TuhadaDaas]

It is insulting to insinuate that the Bhagats never reached Sachkhand until they met Guru Nanak, as some of them had already gone there from this earth, some of them never met Guru Ji, as per chronicles. The point about compilation into Adi Grnath, is osinghs saying that only then once their bani was accepted, were they allowed in sachkhand.

I still don't understand how that is insulting, incorrect (in your eyes) maybe, but not insulting.

Please don't quote to me what osingh is saying as neither have I made that point nor has Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh. All that bhai sahib randhir singh said was that the bhagats only did ucharan of the bani that we follow after they had met Guru Sahib. Bhai Randhir Singh did not state "that only then once their bani was accepted, were they allowed in sachkhand".

I am not Satguru,nor am I in Sachkhand, which i why I cannot cast dispersions on who is there or not.

I am glad you take back your earlier statement.

I can only believe what Gurbani tells me, and it tells me, that the Bhagats were in sachkhand, they were one with Waheguru. people who are claiming otherwise, I am beginning to think that they have only heard of Sachkhand but never seen or experienced it, but claim to have full knowledge of it. These are people who's teachings we should be avoiding.

I don't see anyone stating that the bhagats are not in sachkhand, only that they got their through SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji.

chatanga, I know its is very difficult for you to understand how to respect elders

but do not show your lack of civility on our forum.

IT IS BHAI SAHIB BHAI RANDHIR SINGH

AND NOT YOUR UNCLE RANDHIR SINGH.

That IS insulting to the Bhagats, especially from Randhir Singh, who could not have known Sachkhand himself. Gurbani is testament to the fact that the Bhagats had reached Sachkhand. Again I say you shouldnt believe one man, over Gurbani.

yaar, je kise ne goo khaana, khaan deo.

[chatanga]

You have no proof that Ganika went to sachkhand upon reciting raam raam.

type in " Ganika" on Sikhito the max and see the results for yourself.

I will furnish this topic with one:

Basant, Fifth Mehla, First House, Du-Tukee:

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

Listen to the stories of the devotees, O my mind, and meditate with love.

Ajaamal uttered the Lord's Name once, and was saved.

Baalmeek found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.

The Lord definitely met Dhroo. ||1||

I beg for the dust of the feet of Your Saints.

Please bless me with Your Mercy, Lord, that I may apply it to my forehead. ||1||Pause||

Ganika the prostitute was saved, when her parrot uttered the Lord's Name.

The elephant meditated on the Lord, and was saved.

He delivered the poor Brahmin Sudama out of poverty.

O my mind, you too must meditate and vibrate on the Lord of the Universe. ||2||

Even the hunter who shot an arrow at Krishna was saved.

Kubija the hunchback was saved, when God placed His Feet on her thumb.

Bidar was saved by his attitude of humility.

O my mind, you too must meditate on the Lord. ||3||

The Lord Himself saved the honor of Prahlaad.

Even when she was being disrobed in court, Dropatee's honor was preserved.

Those who have served the Lord, even at the very last instant of their lives, are saved.

O my mind, serve Him, and you shall be carried across to the other side. ||4||

Dhanna served the Lord, with the innocence of a child.

Meeting with the Guru, Trilochan attained the perfection of the Siddhas.

The Guru blessed Baynee with His Divine Illumination.

O my mind, you too must be the Lord's slave. ||5||

Jai Dayv gave up his egotism.

Sain the barber was saved through his selfless service.

Do not let your mind waver or wander; do not let it go anywhere.

O my mind, you too shall cross over; seek the Sanctuary of God. ||6||

O my Lord and Master, You have shown Your Mercy to them.

You saved those devotees.

You do not take their merits and demerits into account.

Seeing these ways of Yours, I have dedicated my mind to Your service. ||7||

Kabeer meditated on the One Lord with love.

Naam Dayv lived with the Dear Lord.

Ravi Daas meditated on God, the Incomparably Beautiful.

Guru Nanak Dayv is the Embodiment of the Lord of the Universe. ||8||1||

[JSinghnz]

I havent shown any disrespect or lack of civility yo anyone, ji.

You prove my point . I know its is very difficult for you to understand how to respect elders.

[N30S1NGH]

I think whatever i need to present i did infront of sangat that sikhs are discriminating within gurbani-..let sangat decide..Raam is not kirtam naam as it has sargun (as it referred in gurbani) and nirgun gyan. Lot of bhagats did raam - naam abhyas got into sachkhand whether you like it or not.

You know what teja singh bhausaria did ?

He started replacing ram with Wah and Har with Gur in Gurbani.

More about bhausarias: http://www.sikhsanga...t-in-the-panth/

I asked everyone what was the urge behind this extreme action- sheer insecurity - he couldn't stand bhagat did naam jaap of raam or bhagata di bani.

I smell the same urge at current time but actions/attacks are far more subtle.so people wake up ..in next 30 years- raam shabad from gurbani will start disappearing again because of subtle actions/attacks!!!!!!!!!!!

My last post on this topic.!

[chatanga]

You prove my point . I know its is very difficult for you to understand how to respect elders.

if you knew that already Bhaji, why waste space on this forum?

[chatanga]

As for previous bhagats such as bhagat Kabir ji they had immense bhagti and had indeed travelled very far in terms of spirituality. As per bhai sahib they had reached Karam Khand which is just below Sachkhand.

osingh is quoting Randhir Singh above.

I still don't understand how that is insulting, incorrect (in your eyes) maybe, but not insulting.

Please don't quote to me what osingh is saying as neither have I made that point nor has Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh. All that bhai sahib randhir singh said was that the bhagats only did ucharan of the bani that we follow after they had met Guru Sahib. Bhai Randhir Singh did not state "that only then once their bani was accepted, were they allowed in sachkhand".

yaar, je kise ne goo khaana, khaan deo.

can you see the point that Randhir Singh has made in the first quote?

gladly i will let you eat goo.

[Jonny101]

osingh veer ji,

I got this from sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib wale book who met bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji in very early age, as soon they met bhai sahib ji, they could hear naam- Vahiguroo..!!

Here is sufi version of sachkhand, its from sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib wale divan:

Veerji, you think that the seven heavens of the Muslims is Sachkhand? Vaheguru..

[N30S1NGH]

Veerji, you think that the seven heavens of the Muslims is Sachkhand? Vaheguru..

Not sure about seven heavens..One that i posted are seven phases not seven heavens..its mentioned in sufism..i got this is from sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib wale book and divan:

1. Valley of Search(Wadde-a-Tallash)- Where one searches for murshid.

2. Valley of Love (Wadee-a-Ishaq) - Where one finds murshid and start doing seva of murshid with pyaar

3. Valley of Knowledge (Wadeea-Marfat) - One feels existence of Vahiguroo, but one didn't fully realize it

4. Valley of meditation or Ibadat (Wadee-a-Mehveat) - Where one gets naam leev there surti start hearing naam dhuni full force.

5. Valley of Unity (Wadee-Wehdeeat) - Where one started slowly realizing Vahiguroo and me are ONE.

6. Valley of Bliss (Wadee-a-Noor or Wadee-a-Hairam)- Where one gets maha anand, vismaad avastha

7. Valley of merger in God or Allah (Wadee-A-Finah-Fillah) - Where one gets merge with Allah by kirpa or help by Guru sahiban. Ekta with Vahiguroo.

Sufis beleive all dharam have four stages.

1. Shariat Rituals

2. Trikat - the way of worship for inner mind's purification

3. Marfat means knowledge

4. Hakikat- means realization of supreme reality.

[TuhadaDaas]

osingh is quoting Randhir Singh above.

can you see the point that Randhir Singh has made in the first quote?

You earlier said that your problem was that according to osingh bhai sahib said "osinghs saying that only then once their bani was accepted, were they allowed in sachkhand." The quote you have given of osingh does not state that.

On top of that, my very first post in this thread is clarifiying that osingh has written WRONGLY about Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's views. Also, osingh is not quoting, but paraphrasing (and wrongly too!).

Dear God, what is with peoples' literacy these days!!

I will break down once again what bhai sahib actually said on the matter;

Bhagats reached karam khand through doing jaap of kirtam naam

Bhagats were then called by Guru Sahib from sachkhand

Bhagats became Sikhs, bhagats did ucharan of dhur ki bani.

You may think the above is factually incorrect, but in no way is it insulting bhagats.