Krishna In Sikhism

[chatanga]

This is the first time I have heard anyone say that ALL the Bhagats met Guru Nanak Dev Ji, i had never read this or heard, as I originally believed that the Bhagats were from differing time-spans from the Gurus. This is something I will look into further.

Have any of the Bhagats ever mentioned Guru Nanak by name, like the subsequent Sikh Gurus did?

have been reading this :

and c&p'd this from it:

Vaar 10 Pauri 15 Kabir and Ramanand

ਹੋਇ ਬਿਰਕਤੁ ਬਨਾਰਸੀ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਰਾਮਾਨਦੁ ਗੁਸਾਈਂ ।

hoi birakatu banaarasee rahindaa raamaanadu gusaaeen|

Being detached from the world, Brahmin Ramanand lived in Varanasi (Kasi).

Line 1

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਗੰਗਾ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਣ ਤਾਈਂ ।

anmritu vaylay utdi kai jaandaa gangaa nhaavan taaeen|

He would rise early in the morning and go to the Ganges to bathe.

Line 2

ਅਗੋ ਹੀ ਦੇ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਲਮਾ ਪਿਆ ਕਬੀਰ ਤਿਥਾਈਂ ।

ago hee day jaai kai|amaa piaa kabeer tidaaeen|

Once even before Ramanand, Kabir went there and lay in the way.

Line 3

ਪੈਰੀ ਟੁੰਬਿ ਉਠਾਲਿਆ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਖ ਸਮਝਾਈ ।

pairee tunbi utdaaliaa bolahu raam sikh samajhaaee|

Touching with his feet Ramanand awakened Kabir and told him to speak ‘Ram’, the true spiritual teaching.

Line 4

ਜਿਉ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਛੁਹੇ ਚੰਦਨ ਵਾਸੁ ਨਿਮੁ ਮਹਕਾਈ ।

jiu|ohaa paarasu chhuhay chandan vaasu nimu mahakaaee|

As the iron touched by philosopher’s stone becomes gold and the margosa tree (Azadirachta indica) is made fragrant by sandal.

Line 5

ਪਸੂ ਪਰੇਤਹੁ ਦੇਵ ਕਰਿ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ।

pasoo paraytahu dayv kari pooray satigur dee vadiaaee|

The wondrous Guru turns even animals and ghosts into angels.

Line 6

ਅਚਰਜ ਨੋ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਈ ।

acharaj no acharaju milai visamaadai visamaadu milaaee|

Meeting the wonderous Guru the disciple wonderfully merges into the great wonderous Lord.

Line 7

ਝਰਣਾ ਝਰਦਾ ਨਿਝਰਹੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਘੜ ਘੜਾਈ ।

jharanaa jharadaa nijharahu guramukhi baanee agharh gharhaaee|

Then from the Self springs a fountain and the words of the gurmukhs shape a beautiful form

Line 8

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰੈ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੧੫॥

raam kabeerai bhaydu n bhaaee ॥15॥

Now Ram and Kabir became identical.

Line 9

I had always beleived that Ramanand was Bhagat Kabir's Guru, and in katha I have heard this also.

[chatanga]

have been looking at a few websites, sikhi-wiki, searchgurbani etc, and they are giving accounts of some Bhagats been born well-before Guru Sahib.

Maybe we could collate some of the differing accounts from various websites and present them here?

[HDSH]

Looking back at the last few pages of this thread, the jist is that we do not know the answer to the question whether Krishan Ji is indeed in Sachkhand or not.

Personally, I think this is a rather useless question which adds absolutely nothing to our Sikhi jeevani. What we (me included) should be doing is making efforts to increase our avastha and Guru kirpa naal when that happens, we will see Krishan Jee ourselves (just as other abhiyasi Gursikhs have) and then ask them.

The other option would be to meet a pooran Bhramgyani and ask them. But we all know how rare it is to meet one. The third and final option is to ask Guru Sahib themselves and if they are kind to us, they will tell us.

This thread is now 16 pages long and it does not seem a conclusion will be reached anytime soon. It would have been much much better if we had a thread this long which discussed things like, various vidhis of japping naam, or various obstacles one encounters while trying to do kamai, or some inspiring stories which would nudge us toward doing more bhagti. As Gurbani states,

bwdu ibbwdu kwhU isau n kIjY ]

Do not engage in any arguments or debates with anyone.

rsnw rwm rswienu pIjY ]2]

(Instead,) With your tongue, savor the Lord's sublime essence. ||2||

[VanHelsingh]

It would have been much much better if we had a thread this long which discussed things like, various vidhis of japping naam, or various obstacles one encounters while trying to do kamai, or some inspiring stories which would nudge us toward doing more bhagti.

Please do, brother. I'm sure many noobs such as myself would benefit from threads such as these. I'm being deadly serious.

[JSinghnz]

Looking back at the last few pages of this thread, the jist is that we do not know the answer to the question whether Krishan Ji is indeed in Sachkhand or not.

Personally, I think this is a rather useless question which adds absolutely nothing to our Sikhi jeevani. What we (me included) should be doing is making efforts to increase our avastha and Guru kirpa naal when that happens, we will see Krishan Jee ourselves (just as other abhiyasi Gursikhs have) and then ask them.

The other option would be to meet a pooran Bhramgyani and ask them. But we all know how rare it is to meet one. The third and final option is to ask Guru Sahib themselves and if they are kind to us, they will tell us.

This thread is now 16 pages long and it does not seem a conclusion will be reached anytime soon. It would have been much much better if we had a thread this long which discussed things like, various vidhis of japping naam, or various obstacles one encounters while trying to do kamai, or some inspiring stories which would nudge us toward doing more bhagti. As Gurbani states,

bwdu ibbwdu kwhU isau n kIjY ]

Do not engage in any arguments or debates with anyone.

rsnw rwm rswienu pIjY ]2]

(Instead,) With your tongue, savor the Lord's sublime essence. ||2||

But why do we need to see krishan ourselves?

What's so special in him that we are losing sleep over?

[HDSH]

^ Bhaji, it seems you have missed the point of my post entirely. I didn't once imply that we need to see Krishan Jee, but rather, that as we progress in our Sikhi, we will see them sutey sidh (automatically)

Please do, brother. I'm sure many noobs such as myself would benefit from threads such as these. I'm being deadly serious.

Payareo, I have opened a new thread where we can share various meditation techniques.

http://www.sikhsanga...ion-techniques/

[panthicunity]

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

Aasaa, First Mehl:

ਪਉਣੁ ਉਪਾਇ ਧਰੀ ਸਭ ਧਰਤੀ ਜਲ ਅਗਨੀ ਕਾ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਆ ॥

He created the air, and He supports the whole world; he bound water and fire together.

ਅੰਧੁਲੈ ਦਹਸਿਰਿ ਮੂੰਡੁ ਕਟਾਇਆ ਰਾਵਣੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥

The blind, ten-headed Raavan had his heads cut off, but what greatness was obtained by killing him? ||1||

ਕਿਆ ਉਪਮਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਖੀ ਜਾਇ ॥

What Glories of Yours can be chanted?

ਤੂੰ ਸਰਬੇ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

You are totally pervading everywhere; You love and cherish all. ||1||Pause||

ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਹਥਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਨਥਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥

You created all beings, and You hold the world in Your Hands; what greatness is it to put a ring in the nose of the black cobra, as Krishna did?

ਕਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਜੋਰੂ ਕਉਣ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥੨॥

Whose Husband are You? Who is Your wife? You are subtly diffused and pervading in all. ||2||

ਨਾਲਿ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਵਰਦਾਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭਾਲਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗਇਆ ॥

Brahma, the bestower of blessings, entered the stem of the lotus, with his relatives, to find the extent of the universe.

ਆਗੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਕੰਸੁ ਛੇਦਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੩॥

Proceeding on, he could not find its limits; what glory was obtained by killing Kansa, the king? ||3||

ਰਤਨ ਉਪਾਇ ਧਰੇ ਖੀਰੁ ਮਥਿਆ ਹੋਰਿ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਜਿ ਅਸੀ ਕੀਆ ॥

The jewels were produced and brought forth by churning the ocean of milk. The other gods proclaimed "We are the ones who did this!"

In this shabad (ang 350) Guru Nanak devji is debunking all major hindu dieties as well as hindu mythology classics like one about churning of ocean for amrit ....

[JSinghnz]

^ Bhaji, it seems you have missed the point of my post entirely. I didn't once imply that we need to see Krishan Jee, but rather, that as we progress in our Sikhi, we will see them sutey sidh (automatically)

Payareo, I have opened a new thread where we can share various meditation techniques.

http://www.sikhsanga...ion-techniques/

I understand where you are coming from. My point is that Hindu devtas and avataars who have no place in Sikhi.

So why are we wasting our time and energy on them?

[sunny_love_kirtan]

who is satguru? could anyone attain the level of satguru and called satguru other than 11 guru sahib?

[sunny_love_kirtan]

chatanga, on 01 August 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

have been looking at a few websites, sikhi-wiki, searchgurbani etc, and they are giving accounts of some Bhagats been born well-before Guru Sahib.

Maybe we could collate some of the differing accounts from various websites and present them here?

hanji chatanga ji,

of course rama nand ji was guru of any of the bhagats but as i asked the above question about satgur, he wasnt satgur. Ramanand ji when met Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, he accepted Guru Nanak sahib ji Maharaj as his Satguru as per the bani of Bhagat Ramanand ji

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥

I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru.

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

You have cut through all my confusion and doubt.

Then all the students of Bhagat Ramanand ji met Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and they all became sikhs of Guru Nanak Sahib. In bani of many bhagats we see the word ਸਤਿਗੁਰ been used. It is only dedicated to Dhan Guur Nanak Dev ji Sahib.

Because there is no one on earth other than Guru Nanak Dev Ji who is able to bless anyone with this divine gyaan.

Gur Jaisa Nahi ko Dev

If we look at Bhagats, there are many other compositions by them which are not included in Gurbani. Only those shabads are included in gurbani which were recited after Guru Sahib met Bhagats.

Also many shabads have mangal of ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ in the beginning of them which is a common mangal used in gurbani for many shabads.

First Bhagat Ramanand ji met Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and became his disciple ( Bhagat ji addresses Guru Sahib as SATGUR) : ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥

Then all of the disciples met Guru Nanak Paatshah and they all became disciples of Guru Sahib.

This was not an ordinary thing. Of course all the bhagats had immense kamai and bhgati to have the opportunity to get direct gyaan from Guru Sahib and be able to compose huge part of GURBANI.

As per Krishan ji,

I have learned not to disrespect any of these avtari purashs. While listening to katha by Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh ji, all these avtars like Ram, krishan, even Shiv and Vishu are all addressed as krishan bhagwan, shiv ji maharaj, vishnu bhagwan etc. and look at us with no divine knowledge at all we are disrespecting them like they were nothing. And then we refer to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib to even diss them more but we forget that this is what Guru Sahib ji are saying and we are no one to be equal to guru sahib.

avtari purash had something them them to become avtari purashs and what do we have in us? Are we even good enough to be called gursikhs? Oh well being a gursikh? Could we imagine ourself to be chosen as an avtari purash by akal purakh? We all know the answer and we all know how papi we are.

Avtars were sent by Akal Purakh and of course they had something in them to be able to be a representative of Akal Purakh? Did Akal Purakh not know that these avtar will fail? or may be they were not even given that task that we think they failed in. They were all in Hukam and they did everything just like Akal Purakh wanted them to do. If they would have succeeded in making people japp naam then we would have naan already and this would not have caused Akal Purakh to come on earth in the roop of Guru Nanak Sahib.

there might be many illogics in the above paragraph but it was just written to understand the point of will of Akal Purakh.

Why do we have to worry about these things when we know we got the poora guru, samrath guru, satguru sacha paatshah. There is always a reason needed for things to happen. Akal Purakh did all this rachna. he created all this play to have mercy on us. We kaljugi jeevs are so lucky then anyone else that we got Guru Sahib.

I hope this topic will no longer show hate and disrespect toward avtari purashs and other members.

I was going to search all the bhagat bani and listen to the katha of shabads where the word Satgur is. I started with Bhagat Kabir ji and then I thought I should listen to Bhagat Ramanand Ji's one and only shabad in gurbani and Ramanand ji also used the word Satguru in his shabad. Just by listening to this shabad everything was cleared.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ ੧

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥

Where should I go? My home is filled with bliss.

ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

My consciousness does not go out wandering. My mind has become crippled. ||1||Pause||

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥

One day, a desire welled up in my mind.

ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥

I ground up sandalwood, along with several fragrant oils.

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥

I went to God's place, and worshipped Him there.

ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

That God showed me the Guru, within my own mind. ||1||

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥

Wherever I go, I find water and stones.

ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥

You are totally pervading and permeating in all.

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥

I have searched through all the Vedas and the Puraanas.

ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

I would go there, only if the Lord were not here. ||2||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥

I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru.

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

You have cut through all my confusion and doubt.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥

Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥

The Word of the Guru's Shabad eradicates the karma of millions of past actions. ||3||1||

http://gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/04-Sant%20Gurbachan%20Singh%20Ji%20%28Damdami%20Taksal%29/Katha%20Sri%20Guru%20Granth%20Sahib%20Ji/CD13%20%28Ang%201168-1273%29/028-Raag%20Basant-Ang-1195%20%28Bhagat%20Bani%29.mp3

Katha of the above shabad starts at 11:30mins

Bhul Chuk Maaf