Krishna In Sikhism

[GPS]

once Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji mahapursh were doing katha from Krishan Avtar (Dasam GurDarbar) about his leelas with many of his women friends and one Singh, a student of the university began to laugh and said "ha ha look at what Krishna was upto" and Sant Ji became very angry and gave him extreme punishment .

He did not admonish singh because he revered krishna.he did it as singh showed immaturity. A sikh does not belittle anyone but that does not mean

that these devi devtas who have failed to realize God themselves are to be revered by us.

[N30S1NGH]

Gps singh sahib ji, you seem to be mature in age and wisdom than all of us here. Can you please take this task? Start an research project on avtarvaad and sikhism. This topic is quite hot and comes up all the time.

- Gather all the shabads from sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji on krishna if possible use pandit naryan singh ji teeka on sri dasam granth (thats only one available) and use panth rathan sant gyan gurbachan singh ji lareevar katha of sri guru granth sahib ji- make a note of guru maharaj various position held in every shabad regarding krishna

- Once your done, put it all together- study it and anyalize it then come up with overall position of krishan in Gurmat..!!

I think that would be best Gurmat way - to solve this highly charged mystery/riddle on - krishna status in Gurmat, as many sikh famous mahapursh holds that krishna is in sachkhand (to name few: sant hari singh ji randhawale and sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale recording).

[GPS]

ਦੇਵ ਭੇਵ ਨ ਜਾਨਈ ਜਿਹ ਬੇਦ ਅਉਰ ਕਤੇਬ

The mystery of God is unknown to any demigod and it is also indescribable by the scriptures -- Vedas, Qran, Bible, and all others

(Guru Gobind Singh Jee, Jaap Sahib 82).

[GPS]

N30singh ji

Krishna has high position in Hinduism.But sikhism does not endorse that view.

For example vishnu is absolute God in hinduism and krishna is his incarnation.

But in sikhi Akal purakh is supreme and vishnu is a devta.

ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥

Devi devaa mool hai Maya: Maya is the origin of demigods

SGGS ang 129

[chatanga]

I disagree with Sampradayak school that Sachkhand is avastha, other religions can reach Sackhand, bhagats/avtars can reach Sachkhand wihtout Satguru Nanak, other religions can reach Sachkhand e.t.c.

This is interesting. I was listening to katha today about 10th Guru's birth, and this topic was on my mind also, but the question came to my mind, of the Pir who had been doing Namaz to Mecca all his life, but suddenly on the birth of the Guru, he did Namaz in the opposite direction towards Patna. What status was the pir at, that he did this? And is it heard anywhere that any Sikhs in Panjab did this as well?

[N30S1NGH]

Sachkhand is both spiritual realm and highest level of one's consciouness. Gurmat supports meta reality and both reality fully parvan in Gurmat.

Sachkhand is spiritual realm, bhramgyanis those who want to do more seva, more anand and more naam- they stay in sachkhand baikhunt with their individualistic consciousness connected with supreme consciousness fully and do naam jaap or sadh sangat, sangat with maharaj in sachkhand darbar or do seva in this earth gupt form or came back in this earth physically in agupt form.

Sachkhand is also avastha after merging with nirgun chaitan bhram- Vahiguroo (one's intituation totally merged with all pervading vahiguroo).. For those individuals who have full desire to merge in Nirankar, after bhramgyan and after leaving their body they merge with - Vahiguroo ji and looses their individuality consciounesss . They merge with Vahiguroo and become one with Vahiguroo who is - Sat (truth/ sarabvypak-everywhere) chit - supreme consciouness and anand- ever blissful

[chatanga]

It is also huge insult to "kabirpanthis", "baba farid followers", "ravidassia panthis" , "bhagat namdev followers" and other bhagats (followers). As it arrogantly shows, that all their- bhagats (be it kabir, farid, ravidas, bhagat namdev) mystic devotion (bhagti, naam simran, gyan) towards One Vahiguroo was not successful until sri guru nanak dev nirankar met them in sargun saroop and gave them "gurmat" naam ( again amazing brand name ) and mukhti.

Neo Bhaji, that is amazing.

[osingh]

Lets take example of Semitic Religion Islam. How can a follower of Islam reach Sackhand? A muslim does not even know about Sachkhand rather they strive their whole lives for Jannah/Heavan/Paradise a place that has many pleasures such as gardens, foods e.t.c.

A muslim does not even believe in the basic concepts of Gurmat i.e. reincarnation, karam phiosophy, vaapak Parmeshar e.t.c.

A muslim is awaiting the day of resurrection and the coming of the mahdi and the establishment of an Islamic Raaj e.t.c.

So please tell me how a muslim can reach Sachkhand when they do not even know or desire sachkhand. They do not believe in birth rebirth cycle and mukhti.

The other semitic religions also have simial beliefs day of resurrection, coming of messiah e.t.c.

The goals of each religion are different.

Rabb Rakhe.

[N30S1NGH]

osingh veer ji,

I got this from sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib wale book who met bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji in very early age, as soon they met bhai sahib ji, they could hear naam- Vahiguroo..!!

Here is sufi version of sachkhand, its from sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib wale divan:

1. Valley of Search(Wadde-a-Tallash)- Where one searches for murshid.

2. Valley of Love (Wadee-a-Ishaq) - Where one finds murshid and start doing seva of murshid with pyaar

3. Valley of Knowledge (Wadeea-Marfat) - One feels existence of Vahiguroo, but one didn't fully realize it

4. Valley of meditation or Ibadat (Wadee-a-Mehveat) - Where one gets naam leev there surti start hearing naam dhuni full force.

5. Valley of Unity (Wadee-Wehdeeat) - Where one started slowly realizing Vahiguroo and me are ONE.

6. Valley of Bliss (Wadee-a-Noor or Wadee-a-Hairam)- Where one gets maha anand, vismaad avastha

7. Valley of merger in God or Allah (Wadee-A-Finah-Fillah) - Where one gets merge with Allah by kirpa or help by Guru sahiban. Ekta with Vahiguroo.

Sufis beleive all dharam have four stages.

1. Shariat Rituals

2. Trikat - the way of worship for inner mind's purification

3. Marfat means knowledge

4. Hakikat- means realization of supreme reality.

[N30S1NGH]

Here is guru sahib giving updesh to muslims in this shabad if we look at it uthanka context(historical context), but overall it applies to sikhs as well, as updesh given in gurbani is for everyone:

saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu ||

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu ||

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3||

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||