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I'm Thinking Of Going To My Local Gurdwara


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Guest So proud

Well done guys. A Christian brother wants to find out more about Sikhi and we (once again) completely ignore what he has said and show him how good we are at fighting with ourselves!

Keep up the good work ;)

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It may sound unbelievable (I've not decided where I stand on this matter personally) but the philosophy espoused by our Gurus is really wonderful. I would hazard a guess that your disbelief is not to

Brother if one can reach God being a christian or muslim or hindu etc.. then what is the point in being a Sikh? And where does our Guru ji say that you can reach Vaheguru ji following any religion?

All religions lead to god in the sense that all religions are talking of the same god. There is only one, who is called by many different names. Gurbani says that Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and Jain

Thank you all for your responses. Do you have any recomendation on what day of the week to go? What time, etc?

-Seth

Going to the Gurdwara at anytime is a great experience, but there will probably be a larger congregation on friday evening, saturday morning, saturday evening and sunday morning.

A service normally starts between 5pm and 7pm called Rehras, you will have to check what time it starts at your local Gurdwara, this would be a good time to check it out as they recite hymns and also have musicians called Kirtanees playing hymns to music.

Hope you enjoy your experience,

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Thank you all for your responses. Do you have any recomendation on what day of the week to go? What time, etc?

-Seth

best time is when there is a diwan or stage program on, if Gurbani translations are on the screen then it will make things a lot easier for you.

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why do you take your own or the Guru's word that he/you knows there is a true god?


Welcome seth bro to the Sikh forum.This is based on my own research both on modern day school of thought and traditional sikh school of thought-

You will find two Sikh school of thoughts-

Modern day Sikh thought of God: abhramic version of God (thanks to protestant victorian christian fanatics when they were ruling India, they implanted their protestant victorian influence on sikh thought- to divide and rule- Sikh religion as we were seen as a threat- british umpire)

Traditional Sikh thought of creator:

Vahiguroo (God)

In Sikh theology, Vahiguroo is ONE ( "Ik" Ongkar). However, to realize and feel oneness of Vahiguroo in everyone, in everything and in Vahiguroo attributes, Vahiguroo is consider to have two states- nirgun and sargun. In fact, whole sikh foundation is based on nirgun and sargun state of Vahiguroo.

Definition of Nirgun form/state of Vahiguroo in its essence is Sat(truth) Chit(Supreme Consciousness) anand (Blissful) which cannot be described but knowledge of supreme existence of Vahiguroo can only be felt and attained

Definition of Sargun form/state of Vahiguroo- Sargun state of Vahiguroo is when nirgun original state of Vahiguroo immanent its attributes:

i) Shabad- which explains the attributes of Vahiguroo but most importantly- shabad which has (gyan)knowledge of Vahiguroo When one meditates on shabad, it unites human being fully with God.

ii) Creation- creator is infused in its creation like how fragnance is infused into the flower.

iii) Physical form of Vahiguroo- Highest emobidment of Vahiguroo- Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji divine avtar of Nirgun Vahiguroo followed by six different type of avtars in Indic Philosphy.

Nirgun state of Vahiguroo transcendent its attributes to sargun during creation and it's ever present through out cycle of yugas/ages (Satjug, treta, dvapar and kaljug).

Perfect example of Nirgun transcedenting its immanent to Sargun is deep spiritual meaning of - Ikongkar (First Mantra in our living guru- Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Ikongkar~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ik- Indicates Nirgun form/state of Vahiguroo

Ong- indicates nirgun attributes transcedent itself to sargun - shabad/creation

Kar- Kar intertwines both sargun and nirgun state of Vahiguroo

b) What are Vahiguroo attributes?

- Attributes of Vahiguroo are limitless and its beyond human comprehension as stated in jaap sahib (one of most important composition which talks about nirgun sargun flow of God).

However, main attributes of Vahiguroo are mentioned in Gurmantar- Vahiguroo itself and Mool Mantra.

Gurmantar- Vahiguroo

Vahi (Acharaj/Wonderful Roop) Guroo - Bring one from darkness to light

As our state of mind changes, one start feeling deeper meaning of Vahiguroo Gurmantar-

Vahi (Acharaj/Wonderful roop) Guroo- chaitan roop (all prevading super consciousness atma paratma)

Mool Mantra-

Ikongkar = ( One Vahiguroo Nirgun/Sargun Interconnected/intertwine with one and another)

Satnaam- His name is truth

Kartapurkh- He himself is creator.

Nirbhau- He is without fear.

Nirvair- He does not have any enemy

Akaal Moorat- He is without time, he is exist without shape or form.

Ajooni- Without birth/death

Saibhang- He is light of knowledge

Gurparsad - He can be felt by grace of Guru(Vahiguroo)

Jap - Meditate

Aad sach means Vahiguroo always been truth. One cannot find confine- Vahiguroo in time or space- Aad Sach.

Jagud Sach- From the beginnning of all yugs(ages) you are truth.

Habhi Sach: Vahiguroo is truth in the present with no change.

Nanak Hosi bhi sach: Nanak says, vahiguroo will be always truth in future with any change

In gurbani nirgun and sargun are one:

Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi Aaap, Aaapie Kiya Nanaka Apaie Fer Jaap ||

Gurbani further illustrates one immanent to many:

Nirgun Tae Sargun Thiya (From Nirgun vahiguroo, sargun came).

From formless, He appeared as form.

Then in Jaap sahib, Guru gobind singh ji shows us how nirgun transcedent to many and then from many back to one(Nirgun):

Ek moorat(i) anek darsan koon roop anek|| (Jaap)

Thou, the One Entity, appearest as Many creating innumerable forms.

Khel khel akhel khelan ant ko phir(i) ek||81||

After playing the world-drama, when Thou wilt stop the play, Thou wilt be the same One again.81.

c) How this whole universe was created?

- The whole universe/multiverse was created by shabad resosance(divine sound) upon nirgun vahiguroo transcedenting its attributes to sargun.

As our living guru- gurbani states:

Utpat Parloa Shabade Hovaie

Creation and destruction occurs through divine shabad

Shabade hi fir opat hovaie

Through the shabad, creation happens again.

c.)What is the shabad behind creation and destruction?

Gurbani states:

Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib)

Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||
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Brother if one can reach God being a christian or muslim or hindu etc.. then what is the point in being a Sikh? And where does our Guru ji say that you can reach Vaheguru ji following any religion?

Veerji Guru Granth Sahib Ji includes bani of 15 Bhagats and they were from different religion. Sheikh Farid Ji, Bhagat Kabeer Ji were muslims. Bhagat Naamdev Ji, Bhagat Ramanand Ji were Hindu but it doesnt mean they havent met God. Bhagat naamdev ji was a hindu but he codemned the practises followed by brahmans. Many of Guru Ji followers were from other religion. Saai Mia Meer Ji, who laid the foundation of Harmandir Sahib was a muslim, Bhai Nand Lal Ji was Hindu, though he became Sikh afterwards and there are many other examples. It doesnt matter from which religion you are you can be one with God. But why we Sikhs are lucky because our Guru Ji left us with pure Brahmgyan in the roop of Guru Granth Sahib Ji rather than other religions' scriptures which mostly include karam kaands, but if someone being from those religions rise above these karamkaands and understand the concept of seeing one supreme lord in everyone its possible meet God. Bhagat Naamdev Ji saw God even in a dog. We all are sons of one supreme lord. As Guru ji says " Hindu Turk Koi Raafzi Imaam Saafi, Maanas Ki Jaat Sabhai Ekai Pehchanbo." " Jimin Jaman Ke Bikhai Samast Ek Jot Hai", "Aval Allah Noor Upaya, Kudrat Ke Sab Bande"," Koi Bolai Raam Raam Koi Khudaye". Guru Ji taught us equality but we still divide people on basis of caste, religion. Guru Ji said unless we see one lord in everyone, we are not going to be one with the lord.

Je Kuch Galat bol geya hova ta chhota veer samaj ke Bhul Chuk Layi Muaafi De Dena Ji

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Why do I comment on thousands of years of history?

I have had the privilege to experience some things in life which made me realise that there are many roads to God and no one is more valid than the other - they are just different. As a Sikh, I am comfortable with that - my faith is strong enough to deal with that.

I visited an ancient temple complex in Guatemala called Tikal and had the opportunity to sit at the top of a temple and which the sun rise over the jungle - perfectly aligned with their temple structures - an experience I will neever forget. The Mayans worshipped various deities and the Sun. They were a civilisation that lasted a thousand years - who is to say that their faith is less valid than your faith?

I have had the opportunity to visit the temples of ancient Rome and Greece, Buddhist monasteries in Ladakh, mosques in North Africa and ancient hindu temples in Tamil Nadu.

I studied religion and theology at school and was taught Evolutionary Theory by the atheist-in-chief, Richard Dawkins at university.

I don't claim to be an expert, but have done as much as I can - to learn and challenge myself.

If occassionally you left your bedroom and your PC behind and challenged your brain to stretch itself beyond your comfort zone, you may have a more fulfilling existence.

So you are a tourist!!! Good for you, but that does not answer my first question i asked you or the next two questions. You should have listened to or read Buddha's life story and it would have saved you a lot of running around. You might as well stood infront of Sri Harmindar Sahib with folded hands and underneath the picture said vote for me!!!!

Satguru said we don't need to travel anywhere to know the reality of life. The problem is you got your eyes open and keep hoping the creation will save you. Instead you should close your eyes after reading Gurbani and reflect on Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj by doing Vaheguru Simran.

If you believe there is many ways (religions that contradict each other) to God, then go say it.............scream it from roof tops..............but don't impose your belief on Sikhi.

Start your own religion and then make all the beliefs you want. Even make a day where all day the followers get to eat chocolate all day. Make another day where the followers can eat chocolate and drink wine at the same day. Point is...........we don't care what you do..........just don't impose your beliefs on Sikhi.

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I posted in another thread,

In general we(sikhs) should be careful being "authoritarian" on other dharam (religion) theology without looking and studying at other dharams in depth. I think most of us look at other dharam outer layer and start jumping the gun. It's kinda like same - person from other dharam looks at our sikh dharam via lense of sikh missionary who believes - main aim for sikh is to good human being and do seva (as they don't beleive in naam simran) nor they beleive in heaven/hell/reincarnation and sachkhand and they think thats sikh beleif. Off course, mystic traditions of all religions are not very popular because of 80% of so called dharamis/religious people are nothing but bunch of goons have hijacked their own dharam for their own ideological war fare, political gains, you know herding and controlling like minded sheep mentality so they can have power. Religion is like commodity for these guys..!!.

We are quite lucky all though we have maryada- rules as well- Sikhi start itself or present itself as a mystic tradition than your typical "ism" Victorian version of religion (regardless of bhausari attempts) as i said earlier-

Out of all mystic traditions, clearly gurmat is distinct and an short cut way to get to sachkhand..!!

With that being said, one could still hold an right position, consistent with all samparda's and saint orders in Sikhism that -sackhand is not exclusive to sikhs!!

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Generally speaking, knowledge of studying different religion and appreciating unity within diversity (of all the religion) have gone extinct from the mainstream sikh religion. So naturally, Sikhs are honestly innocently- ignorant of other mystic traditions of other faiths.

There were reasons why Sri Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj had 52 poets in his darbar from all different faiths, presenting their experience with divine from their mystic traditions because they were all celebrated and cherished together and NO- they were not thrown in ball fire/burn the witch attitude by singhs around that time in insecurity and paranoia asked them to fully convert to Sikhi by guilt trips (sad reality in camps today).

Gurmat clearly is unique way from same old and same old crap coming from hindu pandits and muslim mullah bickering among themselves- my salvation provided in dharam is higher, my dharam prayer is parvan,mullah says my prayer is parvan.

Sri Guru Gobind Maharaj started sevapanthi order and nirmale order (Bhai Dya Singh Samparda/Bhai Dharam Singh Samparda, taksal nirmale upsamparda) to study other dharams and mystic traditions along with gurmat and do parchar of gurmat while keeping diversity and harmony- so together truth (Ikongkar) is celebrated,cherished and experienced in various rays of diversity.

Until to this day, in nirmale and sevapanthi orders of Gurmat, other dharams/traditions are taught and celebrated along with Gurmat(off course), because within diversity, one can truly appreciate Gurmat because Gurmat/Gurbani connects with every human consciouness, feeling and mystic traditions such as gnostic, sufism- rumi/bulleh shah etc, hindu spiritual orders.

Then came elitist superamist ideology who started super imposing its own view (Victorian protestant thought) on Gurmat and tried shoving Gurmat to tunnel (but maharaj parkash cannot be shoved in to tunnel), traditions are seperate story (another painful chapter), but whole theological definition of God(Vahiguroo) was changed from beautiful divine serene- sargun, shakta-shakti intertwined with nirgun chaitan- advait gurmat metaphysical concept to western/christian idea of God who is-'fearful angry','wrathful', 'who is confined to its adobe who gives naam jhapi to his followers upon arrival where he resides before inspecting his/her uniform' 'full of partiality'- accepting the passport/issuing visa to only those who have - kes/ki, kanga, kirpan, kachera, kara' along with all sarbloh- rest billions of jiv atma were demanded to go back in this earth take birth, follow this form otherwise all souls are naturally doomed in (birth and death cycle) until they take this form.

And God who is only and only confined to "naam shabad" not sargun, nirgun, naam shabad, gyan saroop-advait (Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi Aaap), God who only cares about- 'Vahiguroo dhuni', sas grass naam dridh', so so much these elitist superamist try changing vahiguroo to vahguru - Gurmantar, so it matches with their robotic sound resosance- their version of shabad surat marg , they were staunchly against all other mantra (forget about outside mantra, but were staunchly against all the mantra found in gurbani itself!!!!), which provides profound expereince of divine such as- ikongkar, Ongkar, satnaam, ikongkar satgurparsad, Gobinde Mukande Udhare Aparaie Hariang Kariang Nirname Akame, Aad Gureh Nameh Jugad Gureh Nameh Satguru Nameh Sri Gurdev Nameh, these superamist refuse to matha taikh to sri guru granth sahib sargun saroop written in pad ched form (let alone saints lol) and refuse to take parsad just like pandits from fellow gursikh who has vahiguroo jot in him, called anyone who disagree with them- anti panthic, rss, congress, evil snatan, manmatiya, manmukh.

So yeah off course, according to these superamist eltist - only sikh is allowed in sachkhand, hell not even sikhs but only their tribal beleif- they don't even consider nirmale, sevapanthis, udasi sikhs, they all call them - kache, pillaie, dhillaie snantan hindus- hell if sri guru nanak dev ji nirankar gave them darshan with seli topi(one of relics at fort, kartarpur), they will probably knock maharaj topi off and put dummala with aad chand on instead of maharaj divine sargun darshan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So yeah i have every reason to be here present traditional views on sachkhand, after all traditional gurmat is de-marganalized/demonized and hijacked by eltist superamist. I refuse to sit here and listen to their "revisionist victorian protestant version of Sikhi".!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Some people need to get off the net and actually reading Gurbani. The guys brain has officially burnt out. I don't have the time or energy to talk with a burnt out brain. Rather spend my time playing video games and watching movies............

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Guest KARKOOSINGH23

science has proven that can god be reached threw a pineal gland , pineal gland is in your brain around the center , in our religon this is called dasam duar , through meditation u can open this door and see the spiritual side of life , the true life , this cannot be flet by the 5 senses .

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Guest -Kaur-

Sorry for everyone debating on here, this is becoming more of cultural ignorance rather than actual teachings of the guru's.

to Seth,

I think its great that your interested in sikhism. If you look up H3O camps in Mexico, they are started by a man named Yogi Bhajan. He is a great man and literally taught hundreds of thousands of people about sikhism, medititation and yoga. He shed light to a new path for those people who did not know anything about this path to begin with. Read his books, they have amazing teachings, and sooo many goray sikhs (white-sikhs) emerged from his teachings.

To answer your question about how we know. the thing is we dont. no one knows. we chose to believe and based on our faith we stumble upon experiences that make us believe even more. that show us that there is mroe to this earth than science, there is more to the world and human nature. There are miracles and there is god. Sikhism doesnt teach you to follow one nation. The creator of sikhism, Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, was accomponied all the time by a muslim man and a hindu. There are preechings from almost every single relgion in the siri guru granth sahib. We are taught to fallow a path completly. no matter what that path may be. Sikhism is unlike any other religion because we arent supposed to say be like us, we are supposed to be saying be true, be pure be free and fallow whatever path suits you and that you feel will get you to where you want to do. that will bring you closer to god. Sikhism is simply a path. If you chose to take this path, that is different, then you must follow that path purely. There is a reason behind every kakar ( the 5 k's after taking amrit) theres a reason scientific and spirtual for why we are told to do certain things by the guru. So again its about faith, and what you believe you must fallow fully. You have nothing to fear when you believe god is with you. HE made good, bad, and he even made the unknown. God created doubt. Its to make you find who you are. and eventually that doubt will be gone because you would have found a path that rids you of that doubt.

as far as going to the gurdwara, Sunday mornings around 9 is a great time for a newcommer. Usually its when the most people are there, and hymns are being sung or stories are being told. And youll blend right it. although youll get alot of stares cause your white. itll be easier to go with the flow of things. Go in after someone else and copy what they do when they bow down to the guru, and take a seat. Also there is a website called sikhitothemax.com if you go on that link click gurbani and then go to the english search, you can look up what hymns they are singing. and it will show you and english translation. you can ask someone at the gurdwara (id go for someone whos a teenager as they will know english) and they can write down the namess of a hymn for you, or tell you more about what is happening.

Also the gurdwara is a place of selfless service (seva) part of that seva is food. The gurdwara always has food for free that people make with thier own hands for everyone else. IT is always there no matter what. you sit on the floor, youll see where just like everyone else. and eat it. You dont have to, its just a norm haha. They also bless this food by praying on it.

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guys can you use the other thread op has asked a completely different question and hijacking the thread is not very clever

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so I want to go this weekend but when I call apparently no one can or will speak English (even though it says to call on the website). Any tips? Although I am trying to learn basic Punjabi I am not capable of even asking simple questions. If I was to show up tomorrow morning (saturday) what would be the best time? Or should I just wait for Sunday? The schedule is posted for Sunday but is says they are open all days. Thanks again everyone for the help. I have been practicing many aspects of your (our) religion for around a month and so far it has been amazing.

-Seth

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so I want to go this weekend but when I call apparently no one can or will speak English (even though it says to call on the website). Any tips? Although I am trying to learn basic Punjabi I am not capable of even asking simple questions. If I was to show up tomorrow morning (saturday) what would be the best time? Or should I just wait for Sunday? The schedule is posted for Sunday but is says they are open all days. Thanks again everyone for the help. I have been practicing many aspects of your (our) religion for around a month and so far it has been amazing.

-Seth

do you have any sikh friends or know sikhs that could go with you? if not i'm sure there will be a an egnlish speaking person in the gurdwara (teenagers or something)

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Thank you all for your responses. Do you have any recomendation on what day of the week to go? What time, etc?

-Seth

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

Hi Seth,

Just a few links for you. Bhai Sukhraj Singh is an outstanding scholar who's explainations are all in English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzvLD1TOjw&list=PLC615A185740ED78B&index=1&feature=plpp_video

I hope you do decide to visit your local Gurdwara as it is a great experiance regardless to your own personal views or religion !!

Waheguru !!!

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