Whats the significance of Kartarpur Bir

[uk_khalistani]

Sat sri akal,

Does anyone know what the kartarpuri bir is all about?

Why is it important?

And why is it in the possession of the Sodhi family?

[DhadiMania]

Does anyone know what the kartarpuri bir is all about?

kartarpuri bir is the first bir, compiled by guru arjun dev ji (bhai gurdas ji wrote it). this the origional bir of the sikhs. guru sahib wrote it, so in case if he wasnt there to guide his sikhs, he could still talk, through SGGS.

Why is it important?

well you tell me ji, why isnt it important?

reason why it is ji, like i said above, its the first ever bir. some say, that seeing the origional texts of the bible and the tohrah (jewish granths) were destroyed by the romans, is it not obvious some of the words have been altered?

the kartarpuri bir is the word for word what guru sahib was telling bhai gurdas ji. no-one can alter the word because the kartarpuri bir can be looked up for reference. people made copies of SGGS, but origionally, they looked it up at the kartarpuri bir.

every bir you see in the world was once copied from another bir, which was copied from another bir, which was copied from another bir, which was copied from another bir etc, this ultimatly leads to all the birs in the world having their word copying the actual word from the kartarpuri bir and (or) damdama bir.

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br>every bir you come across in the world before guru gobind singh ji added more shabads to the kartarpuri bir is somehow linked to the kartaripuri bir. and every bir you see (at the gurdwara or at home) is linked, some how in some way to the damdama bir.

And why is it in the possession of the Sodhi family?

when guru hargobind ji left amritsar for kiratpur sahib (i think), he took the bir with him, dhirmal (his grandson) stole it, just to prove he was the next living guru. but he wasnt. the sodhis tried to kill guru tegh bahadur sahib ji, one of his devote followers, makhan shah went after him, i think he plundered some of his stuff, including the kartarpuri bir, which he presented to guru sahib ji. guru ji ordered makhan shah to return the belongings to dhirmal and co. he declined to having the kartarpuri bir seeing that there were enough copies of the bir.

now, perhaps someone can fill me in on how maharaja ranjit singh came to posses kartarpuri bir. he used to take a hukamnama from it everyday. i think the sodhis agreed to give him the bir, on a sum of cash (i think), but i am a fool, perhaps someone else learned on this site can fill me here ji.

anyway, when the british came to punjab, they took all of the maharaja's belongings. the kartarpuri bir was handed to the indian government. in which, the sodhis decided to get back and took this matter to court. therefore, the indian court declared the sodhis were the rightful owners of the kartarpuri bir, seeing that the guru said to makhan shah to return it.

thats what i think ji

bhol chukke muaff

das

[uk_khalistani]

Kandola,

Thanks for the information. Never knew it was the orginal scripture, in that case this bir belongs to all of the Sikh community and not solely of the Sodhi's. Some people are just so childish and power hungry they can not see the greater good they would do by sharing these gifts with humanity.

[DhadiMania]

Some people are just so childish and power hungry they can not see the greater good they would do by sharing these gifts with humanity.

aho thats so true, my philosophy on the reason why they dont want to show darshan if this bir is because they cant trust others looking after maharaj (badal and co may nick it from them), thats why i think they are doing what they are doing.

on gurpurabs, such as the big 400 that went by, a copy of the katarpuri bir is on display (hand written version)

bhol chukke muaff

das

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

During the time of Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib, his devout Sikhs went to Dhirmal and took the Kartarpuri Bir Sahib by force. Guru Sahib told the Sikhs to return the Kartarpuri Bir Sahib to Dhirmal.

So the Sikhs can request the Sodhi family to return the Kartarpuri Bir Sahib, BUT NEVER should it be taken by force or pressure.

[Guest stopsingh2]

Kandola,

Thanks for the information. Never knew it was the orginal scripture, in that case this bir belongs to all of the Sikh community and not solely of the Sodhi's. Some people are just so childish and power hungry they can not see the greater good they would do by sharing these gifts with humanity.

It belongs to the Sodhis. It was given to them by Guru Tegh Bahadhur Ji. Who are we to now say it belongs to all the panth when it has been gifted to the Sodhis by Guru Ji.

As for sharing and being greedy. It is a good job that the Sodhis have it. We have had many original hand written Birs destroyed by the like of Fateh Su in the 1960s, who had many hand written Birs cremated even though they could have been preserved.

[DhadiMania]

Who are we to now say it belongs to all the panth when it has been gifted to the Sodhis by Guru Ji

whats wrong in asking it for one day?

We have had many original hand written Birs destroyed by the like of Fateh Su in the 1960s, who had many hand written Birs cremated even though they could have been preserved

if maharaj wanted it to be preserved, he could. heck he can make a dead man stay fresh.

but as stopsingh said, in a way its good they have got the origional. on gurpurabs they show a replica of the kartarpuri bir at darbar sahib, yes its hand written. as well as i remember seeing on alpha the bir (the second from last before the present bir) had a few bits of sellotape to keep the angs together.

bhol chukke muaff

[Guest stopsingh2]

Who are we to now say it belongs to all the panth when it has been gifted to the Sodhis by Guru Ji

whats wrong in asking it for one day?

Its been gifted to them by Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji. It is common courtesy not too ask for gifts back and in this case as it was gifted by Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and no doubt Guru Ji knew what he was doing.

It is like many other precious items which were gifted to various people by our Guru. Many of these items are treasured by the families who have them and they have declined huge sums of money to hand them over to others as they truly treasure these items.

If the family were prepared without pressure to hand it over then that would be acceptable. In my view no one should put pressure on the families like Badal was recently doing.

[Simran9]

the kartarpuri bir is shown every month to sangat who wants to see that bir. :lol:

[Banda Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Khalsa Jee,

Here are some passages as appearing in the publication "Life of 8 Divine Gurus" from the Sikh Research and Education Center (full book will be available on the website soon) -

Dhir Mal's Disloyalty and Disobedience

According to the old chronicles, when Guru Hargobind left Kartarpur for good, and ultimately settled at Keerat Pur, Dhir Mal with his mother remained at Kartar Pur and took possession of all the property, and also the original copy of Guru Granth Sahib. When Baba Gurditta died, Guru Hargobind asked for Guru Granth be brought to Keerat Pur in connection with the obsequious ceremonies of the deceased and also asked him to present himself on the occasion to receive 'Turban' in token of his being the successor to his father's property and responsibilities. But Dhir Mal, who had connections with the Mughal Court and had become their stooge, paid no heed to the Guru's calling.

An Examplary Case of Forgiveness as the Supreme Divine Act

But still Dhir Mal, the oldest son of Baba Gurditta, the elder brother of Guru Har Rai, was a hard nut to crack. He hatched a co

nspiracy with the help of his Masand, Shihan. He hired about 100 ruffians and provided them with weapons. An armed attack was made on the house of Guru Tegh Bahadur. Shihan himself aimed a bullet at Guru Tegh Bahadur and fired point blank, but the bullet missed the target and just scratched the surface of the Guru's shoulder. The injury to the Guru was not serious, as he soon thereafter left for visit of Amritsar. One of the devoted Sikhs of the Guru present there, managed to snatch the matchlock from Shihan, before he could fire the second round. In the meantime the hired men plundered all the valuables from the Guru's house. The whole operation was conducted before the eyes of wily Dhir Mal, nephew in relation to the Guru. Makhan Shah retaliated by plundering Dhir Mal. But the Guru disapproved of this, and got everything returned to Dhir Mal, including the original copy of Guru Granth, compiled by Guru Arjan. The Guru sent those goods also which Dhir Mal's men pillaged from his own house. Guru Tegh Bahadur counselled the Sikhs:

Forgiveness is the austerity most meritorious; forgiveness is the best of charities. Forgiveness is equivalent to pilgrimages and ablution. No other virtue parallels forgiveness. Forgiveness you must learn.

(Sooraj Parkash, p 4040)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh