Are We Really A Marshal Community?

[JasSinghKhalsa]

Hasn't helped that the man on the street is prevented from carrying weapons in this modern age (aside from the U.S. of course).

Martial.

Is martial arts/community all about carrying weapons?

[VanHelsingh]

Is martial arts/community all about carrying weapons?

From a Sikh perspective (even historically) I'd say it was mostly about weapons, even though wrestling, etc., was encouraged by 6th Paatshah. But of course modern martiality includes hand-to-hand combat, etc.

[Jonny101]

From a Sikh perspective (even historically) I'd say it was mostly about weapons, even though wrestling, etc., was encouraged by 6th Paatshah. But of course modern martiality includes hand-to-hand combat, etc.

Since it's not the good old days anymore, we can't carry rifles guns where ever we go. But we can use what we have on us. Our kirpan is a weapon. The kara can be used as a weapon similar to brass knuckles. I have seen some guys getting a little more improvised by using their belt and swing it against their opponent like in the following video.

So that is 3 shastars we can always have on us. Of course the Kirpan should only be used as a very last resort if one's life depends on it. Now it is up to us to practice everyday with what we have on us. A Sikh should be so tough that he should be able to take on multiple opponents. We should not try to take Panga with anyone, always try to resolve the matter peacefully. But if all matters fail then it is justifiable to give them a beating they will remember for life.

[HKaur16]

1947 proved we r a martial community, we chopped muslims into pieces from our areas n also sent the rest of em packin. i say this coz they started it, and we finished it! With massive difference in popualtion sizes, we showed em/whoever started the violence not 2 mess with us. We dont discriminate or start fights, but we aint gona get mugged off.

Although I agree with most of your post veerji. I just had to comment on this. We killed a lot of innocent muslims then. Thats not right to glorify that act. And I say this with personal family members going to kill innocent muslims then coming back and acting tough. That era is not something to glorify.

And did you know, in Malerkotla, Punjab Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj had given a bachan that the muslims in Malerkotla (a fair majority of the city) will remain unharmed throughout the ages and they have, not one was effected in 1947. So such a statement is not right.

[TheFancyBanana]

1947 proved we r a martial community, . i say this coz they started it, and we finished it! With massive difference in popualtion sizes,

We would not have Amritsar and the Darbar Sahib today in India, had it not been for singhs laying down their lives to protect it. we were a minority here but still managed to hold it, proving that singhs can be martial today. http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/The_Battle_for_Amritsar,_1947

I'd say American Sikhs have a great opportunity to carry weapons and guns as you are allowed to. Maybe all American Sikhs need to get a gun and use it if needed. We have already seen that Sikhs are likely to be attacked, maybe its time we don't sit around like ducks waiting to be hit, and when we are hit not doing anything.

However, look at the Indian Army stats,they form only 2% of the Indian population. At one time, 25% of soldiers and 33% of officers in the Indian Army were Sikhs. They have won major battles for India. It was under their command India defeated Pakistan in the 1965 and 1971 wars. Today the figures are something like this 15% of soldiers and 20% of officers are Sikh. Don't these figures say something, maybe some of us can still fight.

[RebelSingh]

Although I agree with most of your post veerji. I just had to comment on this. We killed a lot of innocent muslims then. Thats not right to glorify that act. And I say this with personal family members going to kill innocent muslims then coming back and acting tough. That era is not something to glorify.

And did you know, in Malerkotla, Punjab Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj had given a bachan that the muslims in Malerkotla (a fair majority of the city) will remain unharmed throughout the ages and they have, not one was effected in 1947. So such a statement is not right.

btw im fully aware of the whole malerkotla muslims etc, they also proved 2 b backstabbers, by votin 2 join pakistan during partition. Kinda show u, u cant trust muslims, ever.

Also regarding glorifyin the violence, im not doin that at all. All im sayin is the violence, was sickenin n degradin n bad, but it had 2 b done, otherwise the 40% of panjab that we gained from partition, cud have been way lower, like 20% or even 15%. Places like Amritsar, Jallandhar etc were all muslim majorities, cud u imagine harmandar sahib & all of the GT Road being in pakistan? unthinkable. If sikh villages r bein targetted by muslim mobs, then sikhs start formin armed jatha/bandit gangs 2 tackle this, then it's fine by me.

[RebelSingh]

We would not have Amritsar and the Darbar Sahib today in India, had it not been for singhs laying down their lives to protect it. we were a minority here but still managed to hold it, proving that singhs can be martial today. http://www.sikhiwiki..._Amritsar,_1947

I'd say American Sikhs have a great opportunity to carry weapons and guns as you are allowed to. Maybe all American Sikhs need to get a gun and use it if needed. We have already seen that Sikhs are likely to be attacked, maybe its time we don't sit around like ducks waiting to be hit, and when we are hit not doing anything.

However, look at the Indian Army stats,they form only 2% of the Indian population. At one time, 25% of soldiers and 33% of officers in the Indian Army were Sikhs. They have won major battles for India. It was under their command India defeated Pakistan in the 1965 and 1971 wars. Today the figures are something like this 15% of soldiers and 20% of officers are Sikh. Don't these figures say something, maybe some of us can still fight.

100% bro, losin Lahore and nankana sahib 2 pakistan is sad enuff, but imagine Harmandar sahib, tarn taaran and jallandhar 2 pakistan, wud of been suicide. Watever happened, had 2 happen, otherwise we wud of looked like mugs/pappus.

[californiasardar1]

Don't the delhi riots and the recent american shooting prove that we are no longer a marshal community? Doesn't it show that we can't stand up for ourselves anymore? All we do is complain after we have been beaten and don't fight back.....was this always the case? Like in our history it seems only those who fought back are highlighted, was that the majority of Sikhs? Or did others choose other ways of of handling life in Sh#t times.

It sometimes feels as if the kirpans we are wearing have become symbolic....and is of no use. What will your 9 inch do if somebody comes in with a 9mm....there is no match.

Seems we are just living of the glory of some of the past sikhs and the reality of it is very different.

Hey moderator - when are you going to take me off this approval of posts business? I have been a loyal member for 10 years with no problems. This is not fair, you should actually be asking me to be a moderator with my experience and all, but no problem I don't want to steal your job. Ge back to me honey!!!

I don't think the Wisconsin shooting is a good example. An armed gunman killed several people who did not have any arms of comparable capabilities. Such massacres have happened to Sikhs even when we were legitimately martial (Nankana Sahib, Jallianwalla Bagh, ... the list can go on).

As for Delhi in 1984, Sikhs were dealing with mobs that HEAVILY outnumbered them and had been organized beforehand. Some Sikhs did attempt to fight back with limited success. But when you are outnumbered and out-organized, there's not much you can do to avoid being butchered. I'd also add that the urban Sikhs (the kind found in Delhi) were not known to have as much of a martial streak as the rural Sikhs.

Anyway, although I disagree with the examples you are using, I do think we are much less of a martial community today than we were even a few decades ago. This is especially true in the West. In the west, we don't carry on a tradition of enlisting in the armed services (like we used to in India), so where is that martial streak going to come from?

[californiasardar1]

1947 proved we r a martial community, we chopped muslims into pieces from our areas n also sent the rest of em packin. i say this coz they started it, and we finished it! With massive difference in popualtion sizes, we showed em/whoever started the violence not 2 mess with us. We dont discriminate or start fights, but we aint gona get mugged off.

in my opinion our community becomes vulnerable 2 other communties and gets mugged off by others coz we fall asleep (become less religious), and instead of standin out, we blend into the crowd. wat i mean by this is, some apnay think, "well no 1 else is carryin hathhyar/weapons, so y do we need 2?", even amritdharis, who carry smaller n smaller kirpans. Kirpans that wudnt even b able 2 cut onions, nevermind sum1s throat if they tried muggin u off!

In Delhi, in 84', its no suprise 2 c that the tyar-par-tyar sikhs were never touched, coz wen mobs came 2wards em, with their hatthiyar at the ready, sikhs were never massacred, yet the unarmed sikhs, liberal, moderate or amritdhari were butchered, cornered n set on fire.

U only also have 2 look @ the riots in england last yr, where all of london was on fire or battered by looters, yet the ONLY area of london which wasnt touched was west london ,which is home 2 largely sikhs. Look @ southall, it has the most jewellary shops than any other place, yet not 1 shops touched, even tho it was targetted by looters, via blackberry messenging each other. As soon as the looters arrived in southall, they saw weapon-clad sikhs outside ALL the gurdwaras, n legged it back 2 wherever there from, not even botherin 2 try n loot the broadway.

i agree with johnny101, wen sikhs get cornered, then we wake up. durin 84 we were all asleep, despite bhindrawale tellin every1 2 bloody wake up. Only after 84', did the masses wake up, includin the kharkoo movement, which gained more n more members n converts from hindus/islam from north india. Then recently with the whole rajoana case, did u c even coconut sikhs defendin r religion n rajoana/dilawers suicide bombin (which goreh/treachorous hindus cant comprehend), and learnin more n more bowt beant/kp gill/kharkoos/khalistan.

1947 was VERY long ago. And at that time, a very large proportion of Sikhs had served in the armed forces, many in the World Wars.

Since that time, the proportion of Sikhs in the Indian army has steadily decreased (although we are still substantially overrepresented). Then there is also the question of weather the Sikhs who are in the Indian army are more loyal to the Sikh community or the Indian government.

As for the west, where is that martial streak going to come from? Unless we start enlisting in the armed forces in large numbers, how would we gain the experience?

[VanHelsingh]

As for the west, where is that martial streak going to come from? Unless we start enlisting in the armed forces in large numbers, how would we gain the experience?

We've got to take the initiative. Sikhs should enrol in martial arts classes. That's the best way we can gain training (which doesn't involve guns) without picking up the Queen's shilling (from a British perspective).