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JSinghnz

Havan Has No Place In Sikhi

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Come on then ,show your real hindu face and views on this thread.

Sikhreality

"That photo of the havan at Sri Nainadevi Sahib is from my visit there with Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji. Please create a new thread if need be to discuss it, and I will happily reply there. I will not longer reply to irrelevant questions here, stick to the topic of the Shastarvidiya Seminar. "


WOW, it is now sri nainadevi sahib.

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@ sikhreality

Sikhrealty are you a Hindu? No offence. Cuz if your Sikh why would u show that photo?

http://www.manglacha...20Guru%20Granth

With the Devi in the middle of our Guru's and higher than them as if they are praying to her in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib

And even Sri Dasam Granth you call it Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to promote your Hindu agenda

Brothers JSingh + 559Singh i'm glad u spotted what this sikhrealty dude is about as well

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Bros, don't jump the gun and say he's something he's not. Personal attacks don't work, he may have differing views and approach. What we can do is ask questions and have a moderate discussion about it and whatever the truth is, it will surface.

I'm going to do what he said and listen to the katha and then see what the point of showing a non-Sikh ritual (havan) has to do with the site.

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First off I do want to thank you for creating a new thread so we can discuss it here without ruining the other thread which is purely about a martial arts seminar.

First off, in terms of havan, please do listen to that katha by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji, they are a student of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranvale. Their knowledge is well recognized throughout the Sikh panth, and very widely recognized as one of the greatest gianis we have at the time available to us. Please do not dismiss it without listening to one side of the argument, and Giani Ji can much better explain the sakhi than I can.

Singh559 thank you for your understanding, and I would be more than welcoming to clear up any confusion in terms of our (Babaji's and mine) viewpoint on the subject.

"Panther" , that photo is of a 19th century Dasam Guru Granth Sahib manuscript, and it has not be made by me.

"And even Sri Dasam Granth you call it Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to promote your Hindu agenda" - Panther. Actually, to clear up this confusion, Nihung Singhs and even Nirmalay normally call 'Dasam Granth' as Dasam Guru Granth , just like they call 'Guru Granth', as Adi Guru Granth. Even within the modern day Taksal this is a common trait. I personally do it because my teacher, Giani Baba Inderjit SIngh Ji, normally calls the scripture by this name.

"JSinghnz" I did refer to Nainadevi as Sri Nainadevi Sahib because it is a very sacred place. Listening to the katha above, and reading the ancient historical books about Sikhi will give us an understanding why it is sacred. If you cannot read certain books like Naveen Panth Prakash, Suraj Prakash, Gurbilas etc, please listen to the katha as that will give you an understanding about the sakhi of Nainadevi.

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1. Sikhreality have u bathed in the River Ganges just like the head of Damdami Taksal whose photo u promote on your website?

http://www.manglacha...-mela-2010.html

2. Why do u not refer to Mata Sahib Kaur correctly?

http://www.manglacha...anth-giani.html

Below is a short audio clip of Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji explaining certain key passages from Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji relating to the Khalsa. Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji starts off by going into the history of Devi Maa and how Guru Gobind Singh Ji as Dusht Daman helped and served Devi Maa Chandi leading Her to ask for service when Dusht Daman would take form as Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Kalyug. Mata Sahib Devan was noted as being the form as Devi Maa Chandi, a virgin mother, who the Khalsa considers their mother.

http://www.manglacha...h-sahib-ji.html

3. In your summary of Sarbloh Granth you never mention Guru Gobind Singh Ji once because the Hindu aspects seem more

important to you?

http://www.manglacha...20Guru%20Granth

4. Why do u promote the picture where our Guru Sahibs are lower than Devi?

5. Do you do arti in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib & Sri Dasam Granth together?

6. Do you worship Kali Mata like u have her pic on your page about Dasam Sri Guru Granth?

7. What is your proof that Sri Dasam Granth says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji does havan like the Nainadevi one?

8. Are you in favour of RSS?

9. Do you believe Bhagauti and Durga are the same?

10. Do u realise that thanks to you the heretic missionary nastiks grow stronger like Singh Sabha Canada + Dhunda + Ghagga

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"Panther"

Where I bathe is surely my business.

"Why do u not refer to Mata Sahib Kaur correctly?" - Correctly in what sense, politically correctly in today's times? Or the traditional correct name that we find in old historical books? Today amongest the Nihung Singhs we still find the name 'Mata Sahib Devan' being said. In Nanded there is a Gurdwara named after Her named, "Mata Sahib Devan Gurdwara".

"In your summary of Sarbloh Granth you never mention Guru Gobind Singh Ji once because the Hindu aspects seem more important to you" - The summary I have posted there in the link you gave is just a summary of the contents of Sarbloh Granth. The summary is just going over the contents and the story plots of the Granth, of course I have mentioned that Satiguru Maharaj wrote this beautiful text. Have a read through this beautiful text, if you disagree with my interpretation of the contents then please do write up what you think I should change and we can discuss how to remedy it.

Gurfateh

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Ok i think i was wrong in guessing you were some Hindu RSS supporter but you are way into the Devi stuff and that's why these heretic nastiks like Panth ka Maha Dusht Dhunda are gaining ground

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I do not think the anti-Dasam groups are gaining because of me, very few people know about me and my site, hum rulte phirtey koi baat na poochdaa. I believe the problem is in not being able to address their concerns properly, not being able to explain the concepts of Adi Shakti and the traditional mindset properly amongest the masses etc.

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ok i apologise veer u seem like a sincere brother but when i looked at your site i came to the same conclusion as 559Singh + JSingh

Bhul chuk maaf kerna

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ok i apologise veer u seem like a sincere brother but when i looked at your site i came to the same conclusion as 559Singh + JSingh

Bhul chuk maaf kerna

I dont want you to apologise to any pretenders who have no relation to Sikhi.

Just refer them to the basic definition of a Sikh.

A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:

a. Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.

b. Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.

c. Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.

d. Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions, Shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestor on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), Ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of death of an ancestor) (Two words, shradh and khiah, occuring in this clause connote what appears to be the same thing - the ritual serving of food to the priests (Brahmins). The difference between the connotations of the two words is implicit in the dates on which the ritual is performed. The ritual of serving of food on the lunar anniversary of the death goes by the name khiah; whereas the ritual of serving food on the lunar date corresponding to the date of death during the period of the year designated shradhs is known as sharadh.) pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased's relatives), patal (ritual donating of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of a departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts. hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfilment of a purpose), jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on forehead, wearing of thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi (A plant with medicinal properties, Bot, Ocimum sanctum.), stalk, veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances (Most, though not all, rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continues to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to new faith and a large bulk of the Sikhs novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus' secular and religious life which the Brahmin priests managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by the his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates included a sizeable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni etc.)

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru's place- such, for instance, as sacred sports or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.

Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

http://sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_four.html

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I totally agree with u JSingh veer and i still totally disagree with his site but I think he's just a Sikh who has a very very different view of the Sikh faith from (~i'm hoping~) most peeps on the forum

Maybe the best way to get these blasphemous photo's removed is by talking with the veer + asking him exactly why feels there needed and maybe @sikhrealiyt veer could start by explaining

4. Why does he promote the picture where our Guru Sahibs are lower than Devi? in Sri Dasam Granth?

5. Does he believe in arti in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth together?

6. Does he meditate upon Kali Mata like he has her pic on his page about Dasam Sri Guru Granth?

7. What is his proof that Sri Dasam Granth says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji does Havan like the Nainadevi one?

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First off I do want to thank you for creating a new thread so we can discuss it here without ruining the other thread which is purely about a martial arts seminar.

First off, in terms of havan, please do listen to that katha by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji, they are a student of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranvale. Their knowledge is well recognized throughout the Sikh panth, and very widely recognized as one of the greatest gianis we have at the time available to us. Please do not dismiss it without listening to one side of the argument, and Giani Ji can much better explain the sakhi than I can.

Singh559 thank you for your understanding, and I would be more than welcoming to clear up any confusion in terms of our (Babaji's and mine) viewpoint on the subject.

"Panther" , that photo is of a 19th century Dasam Guru Granth Sahib manuscript, and it has not be made by me.

"And even Sri Dasam Granth you call it Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to promote your Hindu agenda" - Panther. Actually, to clear up this confusion, Nihung Singhs and even Nirmalay normally call 'Dasam Granth' as Dasam Guru Granth , just like they call 'Guru Granth', as Adi Guru Granth. Even within the modern day Taksal this is a common trait. I personally do it because my teacher, Giani Baba Inderjit SIngh Ji, normally calls the scripture by this name.

"JSinghnz" I did refer to Nainadevi as Sri Nainadevi Sahib because it is a very sacred place. Listening to the katha above, and reading the ancient historical books about Sikhi will give us an understanding why it is sacred. If you cannot read certain books like Naveen Panth Prakash, Suraj Prakash, Gurbilas etc, please listen to the katha as that will give you an understanding about the sakhi of Nainadevi.

SikhReality you have done amazing seva for the panth..and have stood firm to puraatan maryada/puraatan understanding of sikhi....all your views are in line with sri aad guru granth, sri dasam granth, sri sarbloh granth , puraatan rehitname/hukamnamas, puraatann itihaasik granths and oral traditions of the dal panth...some might not appreciate your blog but i certainly do..thanks

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I dont want you to apologise to any pretenders who have no relation to Sikhi.

Just refer them to the basic definition of a Sikh.

A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:

a. Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.

b. Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.

c. Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.

d. Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions, Shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestor on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), Ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of death of an ancestor) (Two words, shradh and khiah, occuring in this clause connote what appears to be the same thing - the ritual serving of food to the priests (Brahmins). The difference between the connotations of the two words is implicit in the dates on which the ritual is performed. The ritual of serving of food on the lunar anniversary of the death goes by the name khiah; whereas the ritual of serving food on the lunar date corresponding to the date of death during the period of the year designated shradhs is known as sharadh.) pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased's relatives), patal (ritual donating of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of a departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts. hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfilment of a purpose), jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on forehead, wearing of thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi (A plant with medicinal properties, Bot, Ocimum sanctum.), stalk, veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances (Most, though not all, rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continues to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to new faith and a large bulk of the Sikhs novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus' secular and religious life which the Brahmin priests managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by the his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates included a sizeable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni etc.)

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru's place- such, for instance, as sacred sports or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.

Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

http://sgpc.net/reha...ction_four.html

you might want to follow SGPCs form of understanding and maryada....but i certainly wont

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A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:

a. Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.

b. Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.

c. Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.

d. Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions, Shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestor on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), Ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of death of an ancestor) (Two words, shradh and khiah, occuring in this clause connote what appears to be the same thing - the ritual serving of food to the priests (Brahmins). The difference between the connotations of the two words is implicit in the dates on which the ritual is performed. The ritual of serving of food on the lunar anniversary of the death goes by the name khiah; whereas the ritual of serving food on the lunar date corresponding to the date of death during the period of the year designated shradhs is known as sharadh.) pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased's relatives), patal (ritual donating of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of a departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts. hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfilment of a purpose), jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on forehead, wearing of thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi (A plant with medicinal properties, Bot, Ocimum sanctum.), stalk, veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances (Most, though not all, rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continues to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to new faith and a large bulk of the Sikhs novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus' secular and religious life which the Brahmin priests managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by the his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates included a sizeable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni etc.)

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru's place- such, for instance, as sacred sports or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.

Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

http://sgpc.net/reha...ction_four.html

Still waitin for an answer from mr "reality"! Where is his proof that Guru Gobind Singh Ji used to do Havan?

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