Who Started Udasis?

[chatanga]

Hari Singh Randhawa claims that Sri Chand came to Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and said give me this udasi garb you took off as you gave Gurgaddi to Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj. Now since you have more gyan than me, produce the evidence to this claim. Even call up Hari Singh and ask him or contact any udasi and tell him to produce this evidence.

This is told in Sri Gur Suraj Partap Granth.

[chatanga]

People influenced by protestant thought ( kn ee je rk reaction born out of hindu paranoia) have build their own bias against udasi and nirmale because of diversity they offer in the panth, they confuse diversity with pluralism

The Nirmalas aren't very different at all, they are very much like Sikhs. Sant Balbir Singh Ji Seechewal, a Nirmala Sant, was at our local Gurdwara y'day. He gave an amazing talk on environmental issues.

[N30S1NGH]

This is told in Sri Gur Suraj Partap Granth.

Nice one veer..!!

Soraj Parkash Granth is consider integral- ethahisk granth at damdami taksal..!!

[chatanga]

Yes Suraj Prakash Granth is an epic work, and just as the DAl Panth give regular katha vichar of Panth Parkash, Taksal also give regular katha of Suraj Parkah.

Anyone wishing to listen to Suraj parkash Katha can find loads on Gurmatveechar.com

[Only five]

You got it wrong on saying Bhai Daya Singh statred nirmal panth

This is a separate discussion and not related to Udasis. If i got it wrong then im ready to admit i got it wrong. However whatever is being posted about udasis is based on the katha of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj. You are trying to defame me with this Nirmal bit and then want everything else said about the udasis to be discounted. Again just so its clear to you and the katha is there for everyone to read........the udasis information is coming from Sant ji. And obviously you keep side stepping this katha for whatever reason. I wasn't scared to listen to what Hari Singh Randhawa had to say and what Sant ji and neither should you be scared to listen to Sant ji and not only Hari SIngh Randhawa alone.

.........Im not gonna argue with you, everyone has there own mat and dharam

Not my own mat or my dharam. Again bhai Sahib learn to read a bit more carefully. The udasi information is completely based on Sant ji's katha of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars. If you want to challenge Sant ji's katha then go right ahead. You already have two members who are taking the same stand as you and they are very scared to challenge Sant ji's katha, but keep posting hearsay.

you say Baba Sri Chand started Udasi, Giani Hari Singh states it was Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Bhai Sahib as a brother i will tell you again to be less emotional and be more objective. I have not stated in this thread for one second that Sri Chand started udasis. I have proved with Sant ji's katha that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj did not start the udasis. Just like how Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj did not start the Muslim religion by wearing blue clothing when going to Mecca.

Its not really an issue at all to me, you seem to have a witch hunt againts Giani Hari Singh stating on a forum he is wrong and duping people.

So you base your evidence on photos and need more to prove what you want to believe. Thats your choice and i won't try to change your views. However this is a discussion forum and we do need valid and reliable evidence that can stand the test of Gurbani and Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars to be accepted with a Saints katha. You can believe i have some witch hunt for Hari Singh Randhawa. If that statisfies you then let's say Fateh and we don't need to discuss on this further. Enjoy your day without this stress.

I believe he is presently in the UK, approach him for time and clear your query with him and get his permission to audio record it and put it on here. You betta take some nappies with you aswell.

I would need to approach Hari Singh Randhawa if he needed to clear his statement up. But its clear as day and doesn't need to be explained any further. After listening to his teacher; Sant ji we were able to establish it was just a statement based on no merit.

[Only five]

IF this so called story is in Suraj Parkash then present it. We always have the Sri Chand folloewers making claims such and such writing exist. Not to long ago one Sri Chand follower was claim Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj said Sri Chand recieved mukhti. Then Sant ji's recording came about and Sant ji based on Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars said this was not the case. Another Sri Chand follower said that a Sikh can have more than one wife by twisting Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and Dasam Bani.

So it is not enough to say such a story exist in a certain text. The evidence needs to be provided. And the onus is on the one who said it exist in a certain text to provide the exact section the evidence exist. No one is going to waste their time on these peoples claims when in the past they have been caught lying and caught twisting Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars. They are not reliable.

[Only five]

People influenced by protestant thought ( kn ee je rk reaction born out of hindu paranoia) have build their own bias against udasi

See how none of this members post are ever based on Gurbani or Bhai Gurdas Ji vaars and then the katha coming from a respected Saint on the provided Gurbani or Vaar on Udasis topic. Its all hearsay and meritless sources.

I say we need to thank Sant Baba Gurbachan SIngh Ji Maharaj every second for recording his Katha. Honestly if it was not for him today, then we would be following people influenced heavily by Devi and Devta worshipper thoughts.

Anyway im not going to get into this name calling. I could careless this member calls me protestant thought. However Mods need to be fair here and delete such insults and give such a poster a warning for his constant insults formed in this manner over the months. When he doesn't have the evidence to back his hearsay, then he goes into insulting the others. Im not saying this as an insult, but this is very childish behaviour coming from a married man.

[N30S1NGH]

I think its best interest for op to take this matter off line as it has something allegations against an gyani made in the intial post. Unfortunately gyani hari singh randhawale is not here to address those allegations but those who did sangat of them have every right to clear up any misunderstanding or set the record straight. But even then i strongly urgue OP to meet him in person when he comes next in BC..remember to be polite and respectful.. they don't bite regardless how contoversial the question/matter even if its from other side of spectrum..they will only act in defense when baseless allegations are made against them..one can clearly see it from debate of sant hari singh ji randhawale debate with inderjit ghugga..intially both parties were fine, but ghugga and jeonwala start faslely accusing gyani ji...then he had full right to set the record straight..!!

[Jonny101]

only 5 veerjee's post and understanding of the udasis is based on Gurbani, Bhai Gurdas Jee and Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale Jee's interpretation of those scriptures. Then how is only5 jee a protestant? if he is a protestant then so are his sources(Gurbani, Bhai Gurdas Jee, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji). Only5 jee has systematically shown that Sant Hari Singh Randhawa Ji is in error in his interpretation and they contradict his own vidya ustaad Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale.

[N30S1NGH]

Op attempt seems like out right witch haunt against udasis and baba sri chand maharaj. It's pretty evident by history of his post. ..I have listened to sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale katha on sat gurbani and bhai gurdas ji varan on udasi in its totality..the fact that later on sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale did uthanka on 17th asthpadhi of sri sukhmani sahib when sant ji mentions sakhi of baba sri chand maharaj met sri guru arjan dev ji himself offered baba sri chand ji to write shalok in sukhmani sahib..now something does not add up..if we only analize baba sri chand life by using bhai gurdas ji varan then we are not seeing the whole picture in its totality. if baba sri chand maharaj was manmukh/unliberated as people here make him out to be, sri guru arjan dev ji would never would have offered baba sri chand ji maharaj to write shaloks in gurbani as sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale mentioned...!!

...if you stayed in taksal, you will know samparda gyanis carefully note positions held in each shabad then steam overall position after analyzing each position- come up overall position its lot of unbias work. Anyway here is long sakhi you can hear it from sant gyani gurbachan singh ji katha on sri sukhmani sahib on gurmatveechar.com

sri guru arjan dev ji himself offered baba sri chand ji to write in sukhmani sahib, he being tyaagi bairaagi wrote- aad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach nanak hosi bhi sach (dedicated everything to his father)

...the sakhi goes that at the time when sri guru arjun dev ji maharaj was writing bani of sri sukhmani sahib, baba sri chand ji came to amritsar sahib to get darshan of maharaj. guru ji, who highly respected baba sri chand ji, as they were dhan dhan guru nanak dev ji's sahibzade, out of respect, told baba ji about sri sukhmani sahib they were writing, and asked them if they had any lines or panktis which they could contribute. this is such the level of respect maharaj had for baba sri chand ji. and some people say oh baba ji didnt listen to maharaj, blah blah blah. who are we kidding. this is not some average person walking around, some average guy you see everyday. this is guru nanak dev jis son!!! what is wrong with all these people who say oh baba ji didnt have sohji, baba ji didnt get gurtagadhi from maharaj cuz they didnt have such shub gun inside them. there are only 2 people in the entire world, for as long as there is time, only 2 people can have the honor of saying they were born into house of dhan dhan guru nanak dev ji, in the roop of maharaj ji's sahibzade, and those 2 mahapurkhs are baba sri chand ji, and baba lakhmi das ji. how many other people can say this? nobody, and we consider these 2 sahibzade of guru sahib some average people, nothing special but guru arjun dev ji knows who this is, and gives baba ji the respect they deserve, unlike most of us. so maharaj asks baba ji, that if baba ji wanted, they could contribute to sri sukhmani sahib ji bani. at this time guru ji had completed 16 ashtpadis. but baba sri chand ji replied that since they are not gurtagadhi de malak, they do not have the right to uchar bani, and that this task only suites the one who has the gurtagadhi. but again, maharaj guru arjun dev ji asks again, no baba ji, you are sahibzade of that same guru whos gurtagadhi has been given to us, plz uchar a salok or even few panktis. and at that time, baba ji replied, you can use pita ji's pankti from mool mantar, aad sach, jugad sach, hai bhi sach, nanak hosi bhi sach. and then out of respect for maharaj guru nanak dev ji, guru arjun dev ji didnt write the exact pankti over. this can be seen in gurbani many times, that there are bachans that are the same, but they are changed maybe in the smallest of ways, even by one or two lagamatrs, to show respect for previous guru sahib who have used this pankti earlier.

so then, guru arjun dev ji, as per suggestion of baba sri chand ji, started 17th ashpadhi with the salok from last lines of mool mantar, but changed it to aad sach, jugad sach, hai bhe sach, nanak hosi bhe sach.

this whole sakhi can be heard from katha of sri sukhmani sahib done by sant gurbachan singh ji, and gaini thakur singh ji. and if im not mistaken, sant jarnail singh ji also refers to this sakhi in one of their kathas, if i find it, will be sure to post the link.

Op's approach and conclusion which is only deriving from only one position in shabad is highly inaccurate for couple of reasons

a) unable to see overall gurmat position on baba sri chand in its totality ( by ignoring sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwake katha on baba sri chand in sukhmani sahib 17th asthabadi) on baba sri chand in gurmat..

b) totally ignoring historical accounts mentioned by sri guru gobind singh ji and bhai gurdas ji varan as posted by pal veer- baabae bhaekh banaaeiaa oudhaasee kee reeth chalaaee||

c) totally ignoring- all puratan mahapursh from taksal (including sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale), nirmale, nihangs, sevapanthis unified approach considering baba sri chand maharaj as sikh mahapursh and udasi is an sikh samparda (it be one thing if there was diverse or difference of opinion in this among sikh bhramgyanis but no, every single sikh mahapursh stands united on this front, approach is consistent all across the board)

After looking at points- a, b and c..one should give up their witch haunt and acknowledge their own short coming regarding understanding gurbani (unless internet gyanis think they know more than god help all of us ).. they should spent more time studying gurbani than posting gurbani - right/left and center as if it some soccer match..all about scoring goals to promote their own agendas..!!