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Karma Paradox


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In Sikhism, one's ultimate goal is to become one with waheguru sache patshah during this human life and achieve mukti from the cycle of rebirth. By attaching ourselves to naam, we achieve this goal.

This coincides with another Sikh belief that you reap what you sow. Whatever one has done in their previous life, effects them in their present life (whether positively or negatively). This is essentially the concept of karma.

Now, this is where God's hukam comes in. In Gurbani, it is stated that one can only obtain naam by Waheguru's grace and whatever happens is in order with Waheguru's hukam. In a sense, a person can only reach Waheguru if this is what Waheguru wishes, otherwise, a person is lost in the world of maya.

On the other hand, you can only reach Vaheguru in this life if your actions were good in your previous life. However, if in your previous life, it was not ordained that you did good deeds and prayed on god's name, and thus, in your present life, you are stuck with bad karma, how is this the person's fault?

I'm missing something here as Gurbani always has an answer - I was just hoping someone knows where in Gurbani lies the answer to this. I would also like whether or not the concept of karma itself exists in Sikhism or if it is something kathavachiks mixed in from Hinduism.

I'm hoping someone can help me out with this because I am seriously confused.

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This is very good and complex topic. I will try to share based on my understanding. While concept of karma just like reincarnation in Sikhism have shared indic roots with eastern dharams. With that being said- In traditional gurmat, emphasis is put on how one perceives karam spiritually. It's via free will, order and with grace of satguru/vahiguroo ji, one realize all karams are limited to body and our subtle body- sub consciousness mind not real self and our real self- atma which is above from all karams and individualistic mind. We don't believe in - oh my god oh my god its my karam, so i m doomed and i m doomed..oh my god..oh my god.

Life for a sikh is much more engaging, accepting things as order/hakum and changing the perception of mind rising above from body/individualstic mind towards Vahiguroo which is universal supreme consciousness, so naturally all karam effects be it good or bad only gets limited to body/individualistic mind.. both individualistic mind and body it's illusory for enlighten being not his/her as he/she has merged with Vahiguroo...!!

When one rise above from all karams by merging with vahiguroo, all the karams are destroyed. They are not destroyed in the literal sense but mind rises above from it, the perception changes as if it does not exist in mind .!!! However, karma take its natural course on individual body...but enlightened mind is not effected as its merged with vahiguroo/ real self (atma-paratma).

Classic example- Surely bhai taru singh ji, bhai mani singh ji when they got chopped pieces by pieces it was pre-odained but what was their state of mind like? They accepted it as bhana/hakum, they accepted that because of actions done by individualstic mind/body in past lives, that they were being tortured to death. However, were their mind even iota effected by it? No..by accepting hakum and rising above from all karams and merging with vahiguroo, where everything act or play in this world- torture, life and death is perceived as illusory. They were not even iota effected by it. Everything is in the perception.

In that state, they were bedah (seperated from deh) liberated soul.

I am not sure if i answered your question or made it more confusing. But i hope it helps.!!

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really good question think the easiest answer to do this is (might sound like a cop out) but if you believe in an all powerful god then he/she/it has weighed up every choice u will ever make all the potential options and he/she/it knows you better than you know yourself, although pre ordained that karma has led you to yet another life rather than sachkand it is because YOU have made those decisions.

its a hard concept to understand the fact your choices are based on free will but waheguru already knows what path you have taken!

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This is very good and complex topic. I will try to share based on my understanding. While concept of karma just like reincarnation in Sikhism have shared indic roots with eastern dharams. With that being said- In traditional gurmat, emphasis is put on how one perceives karam spiritually. It's via free will, order and with grace of satguru/vahiguroo ji, one realize all karams are limited to body and our subtle body- sub consciousness mind not real self and our real self- atma which is above from all karams and individualistic mind. We don't believe in - oh my god oh my god its my karam, so i m doomed and i m doomed..oh my god..oh my god.

Life for a sikh is much more engaging, accepting things as order/hakum and changing the perception of mind rising above from body/individualstic mind towards Vahiguroo which is universal supreme consciousness, so naturally all karam effects be it good or bad only gets limited to body/individualistic mind.. both individualistic mind and body it's illusory for enlighten being not his/her as he/she has merged with Vahiguroo...!!

When one rise above from all karams by merging with vahiguroo, all the karams are destroyed. They are not destroyed in the literal sense but mind rises above from it, the perception changes as if it does not exist in mind .!!! However, karma take its natural course on individual body...but enlightened mind is not effected as its merged with vahiguroo/ real self (atma-paratma).

Classic example- Surely bhai taru singh ji, bhai mani singh ji when they got chopped pieces by pieces it was pre-odained but what was their state of mind like? They accepted it as bhana/hakum, they accepted that because of actions done by individualstic mind/body in past lives, that they were being tortured to death. However, were their mind even iota effected by it? No..by accepting hakum and rising above from all karams and merging with vahiguroo, where everything act or play in this world- torture, life and death is perceived as illusory. They were not even iota effected by it. Everything is in the perception.

In that state, they were bedah (seperated from deh) liberated soul.

I am not sure if i answered your question or made it more confusing. But i hope it helps.!!

So if I understood correctly, you are basically saying that a Sikh must spiritually rise above karma - which will take its course no matter what - and accept whatever happens as hukam. Hope that's what you meant. If that is what you meant, I still don't understand if everything is preordained by Waheguru, then why are we punished by karma, if we are not the ones who made the decisions in our previous lives, since everything that we did was preordained.

really good question think the easiest answer to do this is (might sound like a cop out) but if you believe in an all powerful god then he/she/it has weighed up every choice u will ever make all the potential options and he/she/it knows you better than you know yourself, although pre ordained that karma has led you to yet another life rather than sachkand it is because YOU have made those decisions.

its a hard concept to understand the fact your choices are based on free will but waheguru already knows what path you have taken!

I guess this makes sense. We have free will and make our own decisions, however, since Waheguru is all knowing, it is with his grace that we are able to merge with him.

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So if I understood correctly, you are basically saying that a Sikh must spiritually rise above karma - which will take its course no matter what - and accept whatever happens as hukam. Hope that's what you meant. If that is what you meant

Yes that's what i meant but its intertwined with free will as well gurbani talks about how bad karma can be reduced or destroyed as well too, by blessing of Vahiguroo via guru sahib and its saints when an individual start going to sadh sangat- soceity of saints/gurmukhs, start doing nishkham seva, naam simran and with full faith start doing ardas to Guru Maharaj.

I still don't understand if everything is preordained by Waheguru, then why are we punished by karma, if we are not the ones who made the decisions in our previous lives, since everything that we did was preordained.

Pre-odained in a sense- karma nature cycle taking its course..!!.It may be not your mind at this current state that did those karam in your previous life but all your previous karam history are stored in your sub consciousness...karma nature cycle will takes its course until one with his free will keep elevating themselves spiritually by doing good karmas, nishkham seva, ardas, gurbani patt, naam simran, doing sadh sangat - soceity of saints.

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Yes that's what i meant but its intertwined with free will as well gurbani talks about how bad karma can be reduced or destroyed as well too, by blessing of Vahiguroo via guru sahib and its saints when an individual start going to sadh sangat- soceity of saints/gurmukhs, start doing nishkham seva, naam simran and with full faith start doing ardas to Guru Maharaj.

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Pre-odained in a sense- karma nature cycle taking its course..!!.It may be not your mind at this current state that did those karam in your previous life but all your previous karam history are stored in your sub consciousness...karma nature cycle will takes its course until one with his free will keep elevating themselves spiritually by doing good karmas, nishkham seva, ardas, gurbani patt, naam simran, doing sadh sangat - soceity of saints.

So does that mean that information from our previous janams can be retained? Although its not recommended but is it possible?

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Yes saints say once you spiritually advance or once your 3rd eye chakra is opened you could see back 100 past lives...!! But its not robotic systematic process its only by vahiguroo kirpa and selfless effort in meditation and ardas you could get to the stage...that stage is not final..its part of journey but not final destination...even reaching tenth door (dasam duor) - highest energy focus point in the body where you see divine beauty- light brighter than 1000 suns but cooler than moon, various melodious resonance* is not final state...Final destination is merge with nirankar (supreme consciousness)..it's non trascedental thoughtless awareness state which cannot be described in words but only felt - anubhav parkash as per Gurbani..!!

* http://www.sikhsangat.com/Index.php?/topic/67671-meditation-techniques/page__view__findpost__p__545433

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Guest dasguruka

Very good question.

Imagine yourself at a crossroad. The path behind you is the one that has led you to where you are right now. The journey has been 8.4 million lifetimes and now you're a human. The road exactly front of you is Sachkhand. The road left to you is hell. To the right is heaven. So you have 4 choices. You could either go back to the reincarnations, to heaven, to hell or to Sachkhand. The biggest difference between these is that only Sachkhand is permanent. Also human birth is the only birth that allows to to reach salvation. The devtas in heavens and demons in hell will have to take birth one day or another in order to get another chance at salvation. Human birth is acquired when you're good and bad deeds are equal. If as a human you did more good deeds than bad deeds, then you would go to heaven BUT, once you're good deeds run out you will reincarnate as a human.

To answer your question, if you don't have any control over the hukam then how is it your fault that your bad deeds are giving you births. And if you did bad deeds in your previous lifetime, then how is it possible for you to be 1 with WaheGuru. Hmm, see for something to come to be, it first has to have the potential to be. If you could reach salvation after 1 birth as a human (which I think is possible and probably only happens to people who have beant kirpa) then you're set. But most people like myself don't have that potential to be looked upon by WaheGuru. So first nature mends you into a person that is capable of being liberated. You can call that Hukam. For that to happen, nature has to take its course. It sends you through many lifetimes until you get a Guru who will lead you to WaheGuru.

For those who do attain liberation, they have "burnt off" their karmas through fire. They have no more karmas left that will reap into an action. Bhagat Kabir Ji calls it "brahm agan". These brahmgyanis have gone through many incarnations and now they have mended their consciousness to the point where WaheGuru sees that they're worthy of being liberated and unites them with Himself. I find it really fascinating that people always talk about heaven and hell but they dont realize that neither lead to mukti. This is why Gurbani really emphasizes the importance of Seva, naam simran, Gurbani and staying in his Hukam because these help you bring your karmas to a "0". Not to mention the importance of Sach and Satsangat. It goes a lot deeper when you start talking about practicality and the Gurus know this more than we do. Sorry for the long write but i hope I was able to answer your question. My source is "karamkaand katha" by Hari Singh Randhawe Wale. The katha is on YouTube.

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!

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How about this interpretation:

Hukam is the set of rules that God set in which the universe runs. Which also says if u do bad karam u suffer/pay for it, and good deeds u get rewarded.

Because of ur past life, some things will already by preordained: parents, siblings, wealth, etc.

But u still have free will to do choose other things. So the more lives u live, the more karma u collect.

It can become an unending cycle: to erase karm, u get a life as a poor person, then u create more karam in that life, which must be paid off in another life, then those choice u made created more karma....

Even thoughts can create karma, that's why it's imprtant to understand and live by the concept of hukam/bhana.

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