Jump to content

Pakistan and Sikhs ....


Auzer
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well I'm in the United States...so I really don't know how Pakistanis in UK act...but the problem lies with Mirpuris..who are just from ONE city of Kashmir...they aren't even Pakistanis...Secondly , it is Islamophobia when someone say "Muslims are sex offenders" ...The Punjabis , Afghanis , Turks , Arabs , Persians , Indonesians etc etc Muslims would be like "<banned word filter activated> dude?" ...So just say what it is...don't use the name 'Muslim'...just say Mirpuris are sex-offenders or something like that lol...

And division of Punjab was inevitable...Actually , the fact that Muslims didn't demand the whole Punjab (which was Muslim majority) should be appreciated....look what your government did? Took Kashmir and caused all this conflict....Kashmir was suppose to be with Pakistan...It was an over-whelming Muslim majority state...

Auzar Ji, how was it inevitable? the making of Pakistan actually had more negative impact than good on the subcontinent. If Pakistan was not made, atleast there would have been a balance between the Hindus and Muslims. Sikhs, Christians and other minorities were safe as long as this balance was maintained. But since pakistan was created, it broke this delicate balance and made the Hindus into the overwhelming majority who can trample on the minorities any way they wanted as was done to the Sikhs, Indian Muslims, Christians.

As an example, it's like the world situation since the end of the cold war. The world was in balance as long as there were 2 superpowers, but since the fall of the Soviet Union, the US has become the world bully which is not a good thing. Similarly in India there was a balance between Hindus and Muslims, but with the creation of Pakistan it not only weakened the position of the Indian Muslims but also made Hindus into bullies who can bully around any minority they want.

Now since Pakistan was created, Sikhs feel(and for good reason) that they should have also had their own country instead of being left at the mercy of a Hindu majority India.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Auzar Ji, how was it inevitable? the making of Pakistan actually had more negative impact than good on the subcontinent. If Pakistan was not made, atleast there would have been a balance between the Hindus and Muslims. Sikhs, Christians and other minorities were safe as long as this balance was maintained. But since pakistan was created, it broke this delicate balance and made the Hindus into the overwhelming majority who can trample on the minorities any way they wanted as was done to the Sikhs, Indian Muslims, Christians.

As an example, it's like the world situation since the end of the cold war. The world was in balance as long as there were 2 superpowers, but since the fall of the Soviet Union, the US has become the world bully which is not a good thing. Similarly in India there was a balance between Hindus and Muslims, but with the creation of Pakistan it not only weakened the position of the Indian Muslims but also made Hindus into bullies who can bully around any minority they want.

Now since Pakistan was created, Sikhs feel(and for good reason) that they should have also had their own country instead of being left at the mercy of a Hindu majority India.

Very valid points Jonny ji. Whether the decision of dividing India was good or bad...Thats completely another topic. Even many Pakistanis believe that dividing India was bad for Indian Muslims....

Anyways...I hope now good relations develop b/w two countries.... I think people on both sides are becoming tired of this "enmity" now....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I'm in the United States...so I really don't know how Pakistanis in UK act...but the problem lies with Mirpuris..who are just from ONE city of Kashmir...they aren't even Pakistanis...Secondly , it is Islamophobia when someone say "Muslims are sex offenders" ...The Punjabis , Afghanis , Turks , Arabs , Persians , Indonesians etc etc Muslims would be like "<banned word filter activated> dude?" ...So just say what it is...don't use the name 'Muslim'...just say Mirpuris are sex-offenders or something like that lol...

I didn't say Muslims are sex offenders, I said Pakistanis. According to statistics, the majority of sex offenders in the UK are from a Pakistani background.

Now your saying Mirpuris are the sex offenders. Before you said you don't know why people hate on Mirpuris.

It's sad that your trying to deflect criticism, instead of honing up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't say Muslims are sex offenders, I said Pakistanis. According to statistics, the majority of sex offenders in the UK are from a Pakistani background.

Now your saying Mirpuris are the sex offenders. Before you said you don't know why people hate on Mirpuris.

It's sad that your trying to deflect criticism, instead of honing up.

No , you misunderstood me. I said I don't know why Sikhs in UK hate Mirpuris so much...I know there are sex-offenders from Mirpuri community.....BUT..there must be more than that to it. Probably Mirpuris are just toooooo proud in their daily dealings too? Or probably they look down upon others? I'm pretty sure that sex- issue is not the only cause of this hate..there must be something more..

Hope I have clarified myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why are you bringing up "partition" violence? It had nothing to do with Pakistan or Pakistani state... It was an unfortunate event....BOTH sides killed eachother

Kindly comment on Pakistani state...not the partitioned violence. If you say that Pakistan cleansed Sikhs..then kindly provide some proof maybe?

Sex grooming has NOTHING to do with Pakistan and Sikhs topics...

And division of Punjab was inevitable...Actually , the fact that Muslims didn't demand the whole Punjab (which was Muslim majority) should be appreciated

Wow i gotta hand it to u Auzer. U got cajones to push such lies that u are cleverly promoting on here. It's entertaining read them in a weird way. LoL but what's even funnier is that when i posted quotes from the Holy Quran u report me to mods in order to get my posts blocked.

That shows u lost the whole argument right there. If you are so scared to debate undefendable parts of the Holy Quran then that means u already admitted defeat.

Yeah under the threat of sword people accepted Islam. But its 2012 and Truth will be victorious as people examine the pure evil promoted within certain so-called holy books and by historical figures.

Partition violence wasn't orchestrated? LoL get real dude. Btw i'm deeply sorry that your Taya Ji suffered along with 1 million other Sikh, Muslim + Hindu deaths as a result of Jinnah's desire for a kingdom to call his own. The Pakistani state was built upon the blood of Sikhs who were ethnically cleansed off the land. Like i said to u if 9/11 had killed 60 million Americans, the equivalent of what Pakistani state did to Sikhs in 1947 then do u seriously expect America to say the Taliban are there best buddies? If Jews are now 0.01% of the Germany population do u expect Jews to hear that Germany is the most pro-Jewish country on the planet? Of course not. Next we'll be hearing that Delhi is the most pro-Sikh city on earth because the Prime Minister is a Sikh and there are more Sikhs in delhi than in other non-Punjabi cities.

The craziest suggestion from u above was where u expect Sikhs to be grateful to u Pakistani's that u didn't ethnically cleanse us out of East Punjab. Read about Jinnah's Direct Action Day that started the partition violence that sadly resulted in your Uncle's loss. For your info Jinnah wanted all of Punjab in Pakistan and bitterly complained that he was getting a moth-eaten Pakistan due to those rotten Sikhs. You have Jinnah, Prophet Muhammad and Islam to thank for your Uncle's suffering. One day you will realise that if you leave Islam. Oh i forgot leaving Islam would mean u get killed.

And when u get a chance would u mind telling the mods that u are not afraid of debating parts of the Holy Quran and so Panther should be allowed to re-post them. After all the final message of Allah to mankind shouldn't be something we're scared of discussing should it just because it upholds slavery and discrimination against women, non-muslims etc in it

Lastly, It was the muslims who were afraid of what that Zakaria dude had to say:

http://www.jihadwatc...et-part-ii.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvIsai-KkDA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah what about it?

Pakistan Army started a "covert" operation in "disputed territory" (NOT INDIA!) ... Indians were facing defeat (as expected) ... India launched an all-out invasion of mainland Pakistan.. Your strike divisions invaded Lahore! So it was INDIA who started the war , not Pakistan. We NEVER did any aggression on your mainland...We just did a covert operation in a disputed territory--a thing , which is very normal.. To hide its defeat , Indian state started war without even declaring it..

1971? REALLY?!?! It was naked Indian aggression....You trained Mukti Bahini , funded insurgency ...and invaded East Pakistan... Invading an isolated small enemy force that is away from its mainland...without any supply lines..without weapons for conventional war..engaged in a civil war, and is surrounded by three sides....is a VERY coward act , if I may say.

So have I said anything wrong here?

I am personally not pro Hindu or pro Muslim. I'm neutral between the two so based on this neutral perspective here is my take on this. After the disastrous and humiliating defeat of India during the 61 war at the hands of the Chinese the Pakistanis thought they are in a position to take on India. The 65 war was initiated with operation Gibraltar when Pakistan sent Pakistani insurgents who tried to create a rebellion in Kashmir. At the time the Kashmiris were not separatists as they became during the 80s. It was the Kashmiris who were sounding alarm bells that Pakistanis are in Kashmir trying to stir a rebellion. India saw it's occupied portion of Kashmir as Indian territory and Pakistanis as invading it's territory. India invaded Pakistani Punjab in response. By the end of the war, India managed to take large parts of the Pakistani Punjab. India was the clear winner in this war although Pakistan also claimed victory in this war for some reason.

The 71 war was started by India. Indira Gandhi was very aggressive towards Pakistan. She had trained and initiated a rebellion in Balochistan and Bangal(East Pakistan). At the time Bangalis had gotten a raw deal by west Pakistan much like the way Sikhs were getting a raw deal in India but only worse. The Bangali language had no official recognition even though they were the demographic majority. They won the election but their leader was not recognized by west Pakistan. India saw this as an opportunity and started to train the Mukti Bahini. The Pakistanis on their part acted very harshly killing nearly 3 million Bangalis and raping hundreds of thousands of Bangali women. This act had shattered the 2 nation theory of Jinnah. Things were getting very bloody in Bangal when India saw this as an opportunity to invade and divide Pakistan in two which it did. Hassan Nisar has described what happened during that time very well.

When Sikhs were attacked and persecuted by India during the 80s, Pakistan saw this as an opportunity to finally take revenge for 71. They also began to arm and train the Sikhs as the Mukti Bahini were by India. So in conclusion, both India and Pakistan are not angels. They both have grievances with each other that need resolving. Ultimately I blame the British for this whole mess. If they did not come here, today Sikhs would have had their own nation. Kashmir would not have been a problem today(between Hindus and Muslims) because Sikhs would be ruling it right now :biggrin2:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1971? REALLY?!?! It was naked Indian aggression....You trained Mukti Bahini , funded insurgency ...and invaded East Pakistan... Invading an isolated small enemy force that is away from its mainland...without any supply lines..without weapons for conventional war..engaged in a civil war, and is surrounded by three sides....is a VERY coward act , if I may say.

So have I said anything wrong here?

Cowardice was when your army RAPED the Bangladeshi women. Cowardice was when your people tortured Sikh women, cut up their children and put them around their necks. Cowardice was when your people used to take away Hindu women and take away their honor. Cowardice is when your people are allowed to sexually exploit your OWN women. Cowardice was when death sentence was urged for a young mentally disabled girl "desecrating" the Quran which YOUR PAKISTANI people are PUSHING TOWARDS.

http://worldnews.nbc...emy-arrest?lite

Wanting to kill a Christian woman for Blasphemy in Shiekhpura Pakistan is Cowardice.

http://worldblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2010/11/29/5543912-christian-woman-faces-death-for-blasphemy?__utma=14933801.1114464854.1346552318.1346552318.1346552318.1&__utmb=14933801.2.10.1346552318&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1346552318.1.1.utmcsr=google%7Cutmccn=(organic)%7Cutmcmd=organic%7Cutmctr=pakistan%20blasphemy%20girl%20receives%20threats&__utmv=14933801.%7C8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Cworld%20news%7Cworldnewsfranchise=1%5E12=Landing%20Content=Original=1%5E13=Landing%20Hostname=worldnews.nbcnews.com=1%5E30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Original=1&__utmk=173134243

Cowardice is you telling us that we should be thankful you didn't kill our people in East Punjab.

Cowardice is when YOUR PAKISTANI people commit atrocities on women. My Sikh Brothers would never stoop to that level.

If attacking women is not Cowardice then I don't know what is. Then you wonder why we criticize Pakistan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who the hell you think you are by saying "you" and attributing my views as Indian aggression. I am not talking about the Indian army. My question was about the thrashing blows the SIKHS (MY FOLKS) gave YOUR ARMY, the PAKISTANI army. What do you have to say about that? What do YOU have to say about SIKHS blowing themselves up using anti-tank mines against your Baton tanks you begged from the US? Who are the cowards now? What do YOU have to say about the 1971 which is a disgrace on your face till date. The picture of Niazi signing the surrender document haunts your dreams as we type. And then YOU call Sikhs cowards? YOUR PAKISTANI army didn't let the Bangladeshi MUSLIM women (YOUR own sisters) wear any clothes and raped them for days, and SIKH soldiers went to the extent of providing them their turbans to cover themselves. Is that cowardice?

Oh....my....God.

I NEVER called Sikhs as "coward" ... I just said (or meant to say) that invading East Pakistan was very coward step of Indian state..Sorry I used "You" cuz I saw you as an "Indian" ...So it was just a generic term. Again , I repeat , I don't see hindus or Sikhs as "coward" but the "act" of invading East Pakistan as a "coward" step. Indian Armed Forces just did what they were told to do....So no hard feelings buddy...Don't be tooo sensitive...Act like grown up , which you are.

The truth is that you guys are fed anti-non-Muslim and anti-India hatred from childhood. Don't give me all the sweet stories because I grew up in the Middle East as a Hindu (now a Singh). I know every inch and corner of your mentality. My best friends have always been Muslims from India/Pakistan, but those like yourself who try to cause divisions are dangerous people, who we don't fear anyways. If Indians are our enemies, let me tell you that you guys aint our best buddies either. Operation Bluestar took place in India, we will never forget it. Massacre of Sikhs happened in India, we will never forget it. At the same time, it was YOU people who martyred our Gurus and their family in the name of YOUR religion, we will BLOODY HELL NEVER EVER EVER forget that either.

I'm not Middle-Eastern...nor is Pakistan...so thats the first thing.

Secondly , "Pakistanis" didn't kill your Gurus....

So .....

The go It was SIKHS who defeated you in 1965 and 1971, and you expect us to believe that you have a soft-corner for us? Really? You REALLY think we are that dumb? Is that based on all the Sardar jokes you've borrowed from Indians (the ones you hate with a passion) ?

Check this out: http://sikhquotes.org/128.html

O.K Two facts I'm telling you here now....

Fact number 1

1965 war wasn't a defeat of Pakistan...but a military defeat of Indian Military..and "strategic stalemate" of both nations...so at the end...It was a "stalemate" .... Read tashkent agreement....

When a ten times larger nation signs an agreement of stalemate with ten times smaller nation.... it means that smaller nation won militarily..but not strategically.

I hope you have read enough books on military history to understand what I'm saying...OR...if you believe in "Wikipedia" then I already admit that I lost! :lol2:

Fact number 2

The quote you gave me is fabrication. No doubt that Sikhs are very brave people...absolutely no doubt about it...but we must not make up stories...

What is the proof that this post is wrong? Well , as I said before on this forum...I am WAY MORE well-read than most of you people would ever guess...

So the proof is.... I have actually read Maj. Gen. Fazal Muqeem Khan's book... "Pakistan's Crisis of Leadership" :)

No where does he say this quote.. The most "close" he gets to the Sikhs is that when he talked about how Sikhs were braver soldiers of Indian forces...He said Sikhs would be the last people standing and fighting...before we would run-over Indian troops...So most of the POWs Pakistan caught were Sikhs...because they surrendered the last while other Indian forces would not even fight against over-whelming odds at some sector..

And if you don't believe me...go to any Sikh brother who have read this book...Ask him if I'm wrong?

Again , this doesn't negate Sikh bravery in any shape or form..but just this quote is inaccurate.

Your own brave officers admitting shameful defeat at the hands of Sikhs. Go purchase and read his book if you have doubts left. YOUR folks put the price on the heads of SIKHS. YOUR folks martyred our folks brutally in colossal numbers. Abdali killed 45,000 in a single day. Others didn't leave any stone unturned either. Go read the stories of Sikh shaheeds who were all martyred in the name of YOUR religion. Infants were not spared either.

They were not my folks. They were OUTSIDER INVADERS! They killed everyone! Abdali wasn't a Punjabi...NONE of the brutal invader was Punjabi..so they were not my folks..Get this straight.

Don't you dare to call us cowards.

I never did!!!! Next time , if you find something disturbing in my post...just ask "Auzer so you are saying this?" ..and if I say yes..then blow up on me...but please , don't blow up when I never even mentioned any such thing...Lack of communication...I take 100% responisibility for it! I'm sorry..next time , I'll take care to let that not happen....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use