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Pad Ched or Larivaar Saroop of Ad Guru Granth Sahib Ji


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bit of a pointless post mehtab singh, surely this thread is not about peoples unacceptance of larevaar saroop but of peoples unacceptance of pad ched saroop

lol, pyaareyo you and me can't change people now, can we? If some want to accept/reject something, its their choice.

It's larivaar for sure bit we have no objection towards it.What we have objection towards is a person slandering gurbani because it's pad ched or not.I also read from larivaar but that doesn't mean we should totally forget about pad ched.

Again its your personal choice what you wanna do veerji.
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Having sri guru granth sahib ji saroop in pad ched form does not equate to changing gurbani.

Kakar attached? You make it sound like when guru ji came as avtar as child with kakars attached from sachkhand..!!

Dusht Daman wasn't guru, really? just because he dressed as maha rishi sadhu? Do you consider bachitar natak as gurbani? How does this jot process work among avtars? is it systematic ? any mangal charan is recited before jot transfer process starts?

Dusht Daman wasn't guru it like the bhagats in gurbani they are NOT guru. Guru is one as there is only 1 satguru. Dusht daman did not have gurmat naam i.e. waheguru. Only through gurmat naam you can get liberated. Now the question remains, how did Bhagats/dusht daman before Guru Nanak Sahib get saved? The answer is that all we are told is that they were saved and they were saved through Satguru jee. How Satguru jee managed this, is not for us to worry. We just need to believe and have faith that these Bhagats were saved by Satguru jee and no one else.

Giani Gurdit Singh jee has proved beyond doubt that the Bhagat Sahibaan whose Baani appears in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee were contemporaries of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee and they became Sikhs of Guru Sahib. Only their Baani written after they became Sikhs of Guru Sahib, has been included in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Verily, whoever swam across this terrible ocean of Maya, did so through the Gurmukh Naam Roopi Gurmantra bestowed by Satguru jee. Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee declares unequivocally that no one has ever attained Vaheguru without the True Guru:

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਮਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥

(No one has attained Vaheguru without Satguru, do analysis in your mind)

The aforementioned Pankiti declares that no one has attained Vaheguru without Satguru. Satguru gives Naam Gurmantra to the true Seeker and through this Naam, he swims across this terrible ocean.

Please have a look at the following Pankitis:

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਉਧਰੇ ॥ ਧ੍ਰੂ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦੁ ਬਿਦਰੁ ਦਾਸੀ ਸੁਤੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਤਰੇ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

O my mind, by chanting Naam, they got delivered. Dhru, Prahlaad, son of servant (Bidar) swam through Gurmukh Naam.

Please notice the force of the “Gurmukh Naam”, above. They did not swim through just any Naam but Gurmukh Naam. Gurmukh Naam is the Gurmat Naam that is received from no one other than Satguru jee. Some people claim that since these Bhagats lived many hundreds or thousands of years before the advent of Pargat Roop of Satguru – Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee – they could not have been delivered by Satguru jee. How naive of them to think that Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee did not exist before He appeared in his open form in 1469. Just because Siri Guru jee had not appeared in open, does not mean that He was non-existent and did not do His work of giving salvation to selected Bhagats.

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can someone put up the katha were it is mentioned that bhai mani singh did padched

and any refernaces for puratan granths such sooraj and and panth prakash

thank you

im all for larivaar but this the they way a singh explained it. if i was to get ur mums arm and cut it up (which is wrong, exactly pad ched is) the bits that are cut up are still make up and belong to ur mothers arm (the panktia still belong(are) the guru). Funny and strange example but hey it made sense to me!

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WAIT THOSE PANKTIS AREN'T LARIVAAR YOU HYPOCRIT!!

For Gurbani vichar, pad-ched is acceptable. But not for the entire saroops of Guru Sahib because it introduces errors due to human intervention. I believe pad-ched saroops must be respected otherwise all those beadbis happening in Punjab wouldn’t be considered a sacrilegious act. A Singh many years ago put it very nicely. Ladivaar is like Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and pad-ched is like Guru Sahib’s head and body separate. The latter was respected in an utmost manner by the Sikhs and such should be the attitude of Sikhs towards pad-ched today. Satguru is poora and Ladivaar keeps it poora. Guru Rakha

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I am very sure there has been some confusion in the katha/parchar about Bhai Mani Singh

I also once thought that padhchedd was started by Bhai Sahib.

But the thing is, people have confused the sakhi.

Bhai Mani Singh started creating and distributing Pothis. Guru Sahib said to him dont do it, and questioned why. Bhai sahib said it is becuase it makes easier for sangat to read. Guru then said he would be cut piece by piece just like he has cut Guru Granth sahib.

There is nothing to do with larivar.

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I am very sure there has been some confusion in the katha/parchar about Bhai Mani Singh

I also once thought that padhchedd was started by Bhai Sahib.

But the thing is, people have confused the sakhi.

Bhai Mani Singh started creating and distributing Pothis. Guru Sahib said to him dont do it, and questioned why. Bhai sahib said it is becuase it makes easier for sangat to read. Guru then said he would be cut piece by piece just like he has cut Guru Granth sahib.

There is nothing to do with larivar.

Waheguru! so because Bhai Mani singh made pothis he had to face such a harsh punishment of getting cut into pieces. Imagine people who read pad ched or pothis; I wonder what punishment awaits them!

Satguru mehar karan and sort the panth out.

Daas

Consciousness

WAIT THOSE PANKTIS AREN'T LARIVAAR YOU HYPOCRIT!! ;)

I use them for reference and NOTHING more.

For Gurbani vichar, pad-ched is acceptable. But not for the entire saroops of Guru Sahib because it introduces errors due to human intervention. I believe pad-ched saroops must be respected otherwise all those beadbis happening in Punjab wouldn’t be considered a sacrilegious act. A Singh many years ago put it very nicely. Ladivaar is like Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and pad-ched is like Guru Sahib’s head and body separate. The latter was respected in an utmost manner by the Sikhs and such should be the attitude of Sikhs towards pad-ched today. Satguru is poora and Ladivaar keeps it poora. Guru Rakha

Agreed

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For Gurbani vichar, pad-ched is acceptable. But not for the entire saroops of Guru Sahib because it introduces errors due to human intervention. I believe pad-ched saroops must be respected otherwise all those beadbis happening in Punjab wouldn’t be considered a sacrilegious act. A Singh many years ago put it very nicely. Ladivaar is like Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and pad-ched is like Guru Sahib’s head and body separate. The latter was respected in an utmost manner by the Sikhs and such should be the attitude of Sikhs towards pad-ched today. Satguru is poora and Ladivaar keeps it poora. Guru Rakha

Thanks for your clarification Bijla Singh.

But looking at the grand scheme of things- tat gyan, it does not matter if its pad ched or larivar just like it does not matter if kirtan done in raags or not once we look at the grand scheme of things tat gyan so we need to move on- preserve and promote the lost tradition but move on- don't spend time arguing on it for those who claim it was pad ched saroop are fake are taking things to extreme it was same pad ched saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji- baba nand singh maharaj got sri guru nanak dev nirankar darshan from..it all comes down to pyaar and sharda and on top of that remember we are nirgun shabad upasakhs..!!

I think the reason this issue format issue became quite heated all because- bhai sahib/sant ji said so..if there was real concern about lost traditions, same amount of dedication/efforts would have put fwd equally towards preserving kirtan done in raags- gurmat raag vidya, sikh heritage...!! But since bhai sahib ji/sant ji didn't write anything about it..oh well its not my issue..!!!!!!

Pretty tribal and cultish if you ask me, its not one group, pretty much same crap all across the board..!!

So lets try to have a balance here guys..!! ...lets focus on all lost traditions in the panth than being cultish/fanatic about only one..!!

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I agree with Bijla I would like to use the same sentence for kirtan done in raag both are important. Kirtan in raag is like Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and non raag is like Guru Sahib’s head and body separate. The latter was respected in an utmost manner by the Sikhs and such should be the attitude of Sikhs towards raag kirtan today. Satguru is poora and raag kirtan keeps it poora. Guru Rakha

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I agree with Bijla I would like to use the same sentence for kirtan done in raag both are important. Kirtan in raag is like Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and non raag is like Guru Sahib’s head and body separate. The latter was respected in an utmost manner by the Sikhs and such should be the attitude of Sikhs towards raag kirtan today. Satguru is poora and raag kirtan keeps it poora. Guru Rakha

Lets see how many panth dardi singhs jump on this bandwagon? Let me guess? None because bhai sahib ji, taksali sant gyanis, sants from nirmale, udasis, nihangs samparda and singh sabha leaders didn't said so..!! :lol2:

No seriously, when it comes to lost traditions we should all rise above from tribal/cultish mentality (applies all across the board in the panth) and ---- truly/genuinely make efforts to revive not just one but all lost traditions..!!!

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