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Pad Ched or Larivaar Saroop of Ad Guru Granth Sahib Ji


Guest pratannanak
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So by your logic,

When sri guru gobind singh maharaj dressed up differently contary to most sikhs are used to perceive him in post singh sabha era...so by your logic, he is not your guru? what about different type of dastar guru sahib wore? round? sadhu bhava style? what about his appearance in his previous life - dust duman? so by your logic guru sahib can only appear in one form and if he appears in different forms- he is not your guru ??

Who are we to dedicate to guru sahib what dress should he adorn? He could even dress up as a begger and come to our house to test his sikhs...!!

Surely, sargun shabad guru was expressed in larivar format and later pad ched format but shabad guru cannot be confined in both larivar format/pad ched format as highest form of shabad guru is nirgun chaitan parbhram parkash roop which is above from any kind of sargun expression be it - saroop darshan, ink, larivar-padched form..!!

Shabad Guru cannot be confined in twisted wrapped up logic box...he is sarabvypak chaitan parksah roop...!!!

I cannot take this absurdity anymore, someone please get me shaheedi degh and get me on a building to jump.....lol...this is too much to handle.lol..!!!!!!!

I guess you referring to when guru ji dressed as 'uch da pir' I have heard of sources where guru ji did not change his bana but created an illusion for the muslim army to perceive him as a pir. Guru Ji can choose what style dastaar he wants because he is the guru he changes according to his own will (gurmat). But changing gurbani is our own manmat practices. Guru ji will appear only as tat gurmat khalsa - with full BLUE bana and all kakars attached - how can he not? How can you mistake your guru's identity - a singh stands out amongst thousands! Dusht daman was not guru in his previous life he realised the guru through satguru nanak dev ji - Jot is one.

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HAHAHAHAHAAA..............next morning they be rocking the sweater, dress shirt underneath and a very small Kirpan tucked in their dress shirt......you know gotta keep up with fashion.......Bibi ji says i am not leaving the house if you have a big kirpan on and it is on the outside......okay sweety......conformity (had a more graphic term, but lets not go there).........HAHAHAHAAA

You may laugh but rehat is very important for a gursikh - love for the guru is not a part time thing.

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This video presents that there are many different opinions on where one word stops and where another starts in a tuk. Okay fine there is different opinions. Now whether Satguru is larivaar or Pad Ched the same people will make a pause between words at the same spot and then move to the next word. So how do you plan on handling this issue...........its separate from having Maharaj in Larivaar or Pad ched. This second issue of breaks between saying a word is about taking santhiya from a certain jatha or person and how they were talk to read Larivaar Saroop of Maharaj.

Also there is no correlation between people wearing small kakkars around their neck and having Maharaj in Pad Ched. Maybe if these people took the time to read Maharaj in Pad Ched, where Gursikhs have done the task of reading Bani is easier, they would have worn a Kirpan as Satguru told them. If their was a correlation between the two then 99% of the Amritdharis will have small necklace kakkars around their neck. No doubt many Amritdharis have disowned Kakkar rehat among other rehat, but is that really do to having Pad Ched Saroop of Maharaj or just one way you guys thought to scare the Sikhs. I think its the latter. I know many Sikhs who have taken Amrit because they were able to understand Maharaj in Pad Ched Saroop.

As others have said...............i'm all for Larivaar Saroop of Maharaj. Maharaj wrote Gurbani like this so we need to follow. But to say Pad Ched is not Saroop of Maharaj, Gurdwaras with Maharaj Parkash in Pad Ched are not Gurdwaras, no Guru in Larivaar equals no sangat are very immature comments that have no sound reasoning backing it.

One poster made the comment that if Maharaj was in Larivaar Saroop then Shaheed Singhs will not let an attack on Maharaj take place. When Sri Akal Takht Sahib was attacked in the past and more recently, wasn't Larivaar Saroop of Maharaj present? Again such comments have no sound reasoning.

Taksal's name was mentioned in the video. After going to Taksal Singhs students and teachers. They teach students in Pad Ched. And these students of Taksal were the students of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj. Even Taksal Gutka Sahib are in Pad Ched

There needs to be a push for Larivaar teaching and learning, but the reasons to support can't be intimdation tactics and very poorly thought out correlations that don't exist.

My veer wrote this but I agree with him:

Personal belief is that pad ched saroop may have got more people aware of Sikhi but it has bought in a whole load of other detrimental Panthic wide issues.

For example:

People claiming to be gianis running Gurdwarai

Losing Gurbani Viakaran understanding

Losing tat Gurmat parchaar

Losing ekta

The concept of Gurbani being easier to read has meant any tom <banned word filter activated> and harry who can read Punjabi comes over to the western countries and calls himself a giani. Majority of the Gurdwara problems are related to un-giani like people who claim to be gianis, yet when asked to explain tat Gurmat, they falter, they fail in their job to do parchaar, because they are not gianis, they are people who want a job and to get money.

Would these same people claiming to be gianis come into the “profession” if Gurbani was in Larrivaar? Doubt it! Those serious people interested in Gurbani and its meaning would do the “job” and hence the time spent on understanding Gurbani meaning and viakaran could be disseminated to the sangat. There would not be as many people doing this as a “job” therefore less numbers would mean less people to run Gurdwarai. Less Gurdwarai means communities have to work together more and put ego aside, as opening a new Gurdwara is more of a difficulty if you cant find they “gianis” to run it….

The issue with not many others being well versed in Larrivaar… why don’t we do what we are meant to do and get on with becoming better at reading Larrivaar? Why do we have to wait for others to help us? Have we not missed the point that we are not meant to have a middle man. Our relationship is with God directly, not through a giani…

With pad ched, we have also come to the stage that we now know best. We know better than Guru Sahib who had originally written it in Larrivaar and justify this by saying many other people have got high avastha and darshan from pad ched. It is one thing having the real King gives orders, it is another for someone wearing the Kings clothes and giving orders… Also please have a cursory look at the quality of knowledge of the Singhs and Singhnia prior 1940’s and have a look now. How many of us understand viakaran and Gurmat to the standard of the Singhs of the early 1900’s….? Why and how have we lost this knowledge…?

As we know think we know better than Guru Sahib now, groups have also started to think the same way. Be it Jatha, taksal, nihung dals….etc each one claims to be correct in the pad ched of Gurbani. Each produce Gutkai with their pad ched understanding and explain why they are correct. Gurbani is agam agaad bodh is very rarely said (unless you come to this forum) because everything is pad ched so therefore we know best. The concept of sitting down and discussing from a Gurbani Viakaran point of view is very rarely done. We focus just on rough translations and not on the grammer… all because of Larrivaar being broken into pad ched.

We will never get ekta under the banner of Pad ched saroops. The Gursikhs who will bring ekta will be those who are educated in Gurbani Viakaran and practice tat Gurmat, like the Lahore Singhs from the Singh Sabha Movement. Ekta will not come or be led by those who do not have the Gurmat knowledge or Gurmat lifestyle.

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Please read:

http://akj.org/literature/adobe/Tracts/LarreedaarSaroop.pdf

gurbani says, "mera satgur poora." my true guru is perfect. and so guru sahib is perfect, in laareevaar, as originally compiled. since we cannot change guru sahib, we cannot make guru sahib imperfect, then when we try to break gurbani apart, the result is not guru sahib any longer, just as the english translation is not guru sahib.

Pad chhed is essentially translation of gurbani.

Satguru mehar karan

Daas Consciousness

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I guess you referring to when guru ji dressed as 'uch da pir' I have heard of sources where guru ji did not change his bana but created an illusion for the muslim army to perceive him as a pir. Guru Ji can choose what style dastaar he wants because he is the guru he changes according to his own will (gurmat). But changing gurbani is our own manmat practices. Guru ji will appear only as tat gurmat khalsa - with full BLUE bana and all kakars attached - how can he not? How can you mistake your guru's identity - a singh stands out amongst thousands! Dusht daman was not guru in his previous life he realised the guru through satguru nanak dev ji - Jot is one.

Having sri guru granth sahib ji saroop in pad ched form does not equate to changing gurbani.

Guru ji will appear only as tat gurmat khalsa - with full BLUE bana and all kakars attached - how can he not? How can you mistake your guru's identity - a singh stands out amongst thousands!

Kakar attached? You make it sound like when guru ji came as avtar as child with kakars attached from sachkhand..!!

Dusht daman was not guru in his previous life he realised the guru through satguru nanak dev ji - Jot is one

Dusht Daman wasn't guru, really? just because he dressed as maha rishi sadhu? Do you consider bachitar natak as gurbani? How does this jot process work among avtars? is it systematic ? any mangal charan is recited before jot transfer process starts?

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Guest pratannanak

paaji Consciousness, all do respect but how can you say dusht daman was not "guru".....bachitar natak states that he(guru gobind singh ) was in anand with the lotus feet of akaal purkh.. was one with parmatma when parmatama wanted dusht daman to play the natak of guru gobind singh ji..dusht daman did not want to as he was full with anand of his oneness with the almighty but could not refuse such a service...

what a atma/jeevan must one have for akaal purkh to request to perform a service....

dont get in this paranoia that pad ched are fake and larivaar is real (it is original no doubt and should be promoted so to speak).. /sant jarnail singh/ gurbachan singh/ nihang dals/nirmala dals/sevapathi dals.....their santhiya is is pad ched saroop of maharaj

paji, a bhram gyani can get his vidiya from larivaar or pad ched.. the ego believes his method is best..

also paji how can pad ched be a translation of larivaar when its just the exact same thing with gaps.....

paji be honest as you seem a well educated being on larivaar and are very passionate about it,, could you tell who is reciting larivaar and pad ched from two different granthis who are well versed in gurbani.....

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So by your logic,

When sri guru gobind singh maharaj dressed up differently contary to most sikhs are used to perceive him in post singh sabha era...so by your logic, he is not your guru? what about different type of dastar guru sahib wore? round? sadhu bhava style? what about his appearance in his previous life - dust duman? so by your logic guru sahib can only appear in one form and if he appears in different forms- he is not your guru ??

Who are we to dedicate to guru sahib what dress should he adorn? He could even dress up as a begger and come to our house to test his sikhs...!!

Surely, sargun shabad guru was expressed in larivar format and later pad ched format but shabad guru cannot be confined in both larivar format/pad ched format as highest form of shabad guru is nirgun chaitan parbhram parkash roop which is above from any kind of sargun expression be it - saroop darshan, ink, larivar-padched form..!!

Shabad Guru cannot be confined in twisted wrapped up logic box...he is sarabvypak chaitan parksah roop...!!!

I cannot take this absurdity anymore, someone please get me shaheedi degh and get me on a building to jump.....lol...this is too much to handle.lol..!!!!!!!

Beautiful post man.

I laughed at the end about the shaheedi degh :)

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bit of a pointless post mehtab singh, surely this thread is not about peoples unacceptance of larevaar saroop but of peoples unacceptance of pad ched saroop

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At Sri Darbar Sahib and many other itihaasik Gurudhaam, Guru Sahib's saroop is lareedaar. Those who have a problem are requested to go there and convince them otherwise.

It's larivaar for sure bit we have no objection towards it.What we have objection towards is a person slandering gurbani because it's pad ched or not.I also read from larivaar but that doesn't mean we should totally forget about pad ched.

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