Balanced View of Hindu-Sikh Shaster Vidiya

[lsingh]

So is nidar a recognised leader/representative of Buddah dal in the uk??

My experiences for the time I attended his classes we're pretty bad, but I initially put that down to my lack of knowledge! I was not in the greatest of places when I started attending, however Gursikhi was always my beacon of light. I saw what was going on there and the general mindset of glastonbury singhs, displaying g@nja leaves on their facebook pages and going to dub dances to smoke weed and 'meditate' as some next dimension that I just wasn't aware of! I openly saw "singhs" cus other singhs, and talk about shaheeds from the 1940's to present day as some sort of terrorists, something I could stomach. I also found the name change thing totally bizarre, but thought hey what do I know it must be an evolution of some kind? I once had a snathanist approach me and profess that i'm a singh of nidar, to which I replied I am a Singh of Guru Granth Sahib, a look of homer simpson followed. I have openly seen singhs attend mandir on Diwali because they profess that the Singh Sabha Gurdwara's are corrupt! (their own words). I thought the whole point of going to Gurdwara was to be "in the TRUE masters presence", if you disagree with the corruption either do something about it or at the very least don't put any money in the 'maya box'

I personally beleive the mass rounding up and killing of "Gursikhs" in the 80's & 90's and the burning down of places like the Sikh reference library was the start of the etempt to eradicate Sikhi and "merge it back in to the bigger hindutva dharam". The next step (the emergance of the nidars, ram rahim's, darshan ragis of this world) is to replace what was the truth back then with the new falsehood that is upon us today. Is Nidar a rss cronie? who knows & who really cares? Not me! But I say this, I stand firmly shoulder to shoulder with Bhai sahib Taran Singh and his mission to shine the light on the dark filth that nidar and co are spewing to our young and impressionable sikhs.

Agree with you. The first step of the Indian Govt was to kill to solid Sikhs who committed to getting the Panth its freedom. The second step is to subvert from within by using the 'Living Gurus' , the indian controlled Nangs etc to get the innocent Sikhs confused and end up hating themselves and their Shaheeds.

I have been reading the posts of the Hindu/Sikhs for a while and its quite clever the methods they use to try and prove they are correct. Only Sikhs with a good knowledge of our history can counter it (thats not many). They constantly attack the Singh Sabha because they unified the Sikhs and took them back to the period of the Guru Sahibs teaching and removed the Brahmin mat that had come into being towards the end of Ranjits Singhs rule and during the British period. They even have the cheek to say the Singh Sabha teachings were British inspired!

The Indian Govt also hate the impact of the Singh Sabha and the drive on Miri Piri principals that threaten their rule, hence support for the Hindu/Sikhs. When the massacre of Sikhs had just taken place and the Guru Sahibs writings had been burnt by the Indian army all Sikhs were totally oppossed to what had happened (Including Congress Supporters). The only people who stood by Indira Gandhi was Santa Singh and his Buddha Dal faction. I think you can make out where some of this group stand.

[N30S1NGH]

Guys, there are two extremes in the panth both extremes are bad.

Right Extreme mindset within singh sabha mindset you have types which are influenced by protestant/bhausaria mindset who hate everything remotely close to puratan/puratan samparda's like- nihangs/nirmale/udasi/sevapanthis/taksal, they call everything bhraminvaad because their sensors are too high yet they have no problem sleeping with protestants/bhausaria thought- following georgian calendar/wear trousers/shirt and speak queens english, celebrating birthday for their kids, go against rakhri but celebrate christmas, go to gurdwara on sundays, sing god's name as if they are singing hallelujah, their attack is apparent against - sri dasam granth- throwing sri dasam granth sahib out of darbar, bhagata di bani, bhai gurdas ji etc.

Left Extreme mindset - nihang niddar singh group and co, thinkin sikhs are hindus, alchohol is ok call it panj ratani and we are just part of snantan dharam despite of sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale/bhai vir singh ji clearly re-iterating the gurmat message and lay out- boundaries of khalsa... they are staunchly against singh sabha call them all disgusting labels as malech etc, their twisted mindset is - anything that is puratan be it tradition or thought automatically is Gurmat instead of weighing puratan ideals with gurbani or calling gurmatta sarbat khalsa meeting for all scholars from both thoughts to come up with collective agreement..!!

Best thing we can all do is avoid both mindset above like a plaque and be in central/neutral- see gurmat/khalsa via eyes of sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale mixture with bhai vir singh ji works and works of bhai kahn singh nabha and acknowledge the dangers of going one extreme to another. As we have live examples of sikhs on cyber space how they revolted and gone to one extreme to another extreme in no time.

The close associates of nihang niddar singh like narsingha and co were actually one point part of right wing thought. They revolted went totally like left wing and hijack the nihang bana and gurmat to fight their own silly tribal wars..just like we have partakh example in cyber space- harjas kaur khalsa who used to be on extreme right but after hearing extreme right parchar and posting extreme right parchar for so long, she revolted went on extreme left. Now you will find her posting on rss websites, she was banned last year from my own forum- sikhawareness.com

[Singh559]

So every Sikh should make it their duty to be train in combat arts along with their spirituality...do both but dont neglect either.

Agreed.

I just think in general there is a lack of martial Sipahi spirit in the Panth rather not not learning specifically what is being called SV.

[taran0]

just added another article describing a publication by Nidar from 1998 where he states that the original ancient art was Chatka Gatka

he writes

Nihang oral tra­di­tion holds when Guru Nanak went to Sach Khand ( Gods True court ) and received Shabd Vidya ( Know­ledge of holy word ) from Vahguru . He then also recieved Kshtriya Vidya ( Chatka Gatka) from Vahguru Mahakal.… Thus like Bani (Sikh scrip­tures ) Chatka Gatka is also Dhur Dee Vidiya ( Know­ledge dir­ect from Vah Guru ). Hence any crup­tion or delib­er­ate alter­a­tion of it in Akali Nihang eyes is a great evil. (Niddar Singh, The Fight­ing Tra­di­tions And Fight­ing Arts Of The Tra­di­tional Sikh War­ri­ors” 1998)

so Chatka Gatka came from Akaal Purkh according to niddar in 1998 but after reading and learning a bit more it is now Shastar Vidiya and chatka gatka has disapeared. If something is that ancient why did it go through so many name changes and why did you have to find or decide upon a new name? and why isnt shiv akhara and snatan used in 1998.

maybe because Nidar hadn't incorporated it yet into his made up art which is loosely BASED on information about ancient arts.

you can read the full article here

http://www.shastervi...an-ancient-one/

[taran0]

ਕਾਹੂ ਦਸਾ ਕੇ ਪਵਨ ਗਵਨ ਕੈ ਬਰਖਾ ਹੈ ਕਾਹੂ ਦਸਾ ਕੇ ਪਵਨ ਬਾਦਰ ਬਿਲਾਤ ਹੈ ।

Just as wind blowing from a particular direction causes rain while another direction blows the clouds away.

ਕਾਹੂ ਜਲ ਪਾਨ ਕੀਏ ਰਹਤ ਅਰੋਗ ਦੋਹੀ ਕਾਹੂ ਜਲ ਪਾਨ ਬਿਆਪੇ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਬਿਲਲਾਤ ਹੈ ।

Just as drinking some water keeps the body healthy while some other water causes one to fall sick. It troubles the patient no end.

ਕਾਹੂ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਪਾਕ ਸਾਕ ਸਿਧਿ ਕਰੈ ਕਾਹੂ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਭਵਨੁ ਜਰਾਤ ਹੈ ।

Just as the fire of a house helps in cooking but the fire raged in another house burns the house to ashes'

ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਸੰਗਤ ਮਿਲਿ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹੁਇ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਮੁਪੁਰਿ ਜਾਤ ਹੈ ॥੫੪੯॥

Similarly someone's company liberates, while other's company leads one to hell. (549)

ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੫੪੯ ਪੰ. ੪

[taran0]

just added another 3 articles

one to note is http://www.shastervidiya.org/gt-1588-kashi-house-and-ukpha-supporters-of-nidar/

Sev­eral organ­isa­tions run and cre­ated by Nidar’s cult mem­bers’ sup­port him. Like GT 1588 who have over 5000 likes on face­book and UKPHA, East­ern Arts Part­ner­ship, as well as Asian Health Ini­ti­at­ive, all run by Parmjit Gre­wal and Aman­deep Madra. They had to change their name due to the Sangat asso­ci­at­ing UKPHA with Nidar.

See Parmjit with his Mas­ter Nidar

Here are two examples of just some of the Grants they have received:

Applic­ant: Asian Health Her­it­age Amount awar­ded: £49,900

Applic­ant: East­ern Arts Part­ner­ship Amount awar­ded: £59, 000

They have applied for approx­im­ately 20–30 grants we know about ran­ging from £10,000 to £100,000 totalling an estim­ated 2 mil­lion pounds. They have received grants from Eng­lish Her­it­age, Brit­ish Academy, National Her­it­age Memorial Fund, HLF, private donors and oth­ers, pos­ing as genu­ine Sikh Historians.

Through this they invite Nidar and pay him large sums to attend, and sup­port his parchar. Without them Nidar can­not sur­vive fin­an­cially. Report them to local bod­ies for ‘Incit­ing Reli­gious Hatred’ 2006. All they do is cause trouble to get atten­tion. This year at their lame exhib­i­tion it was repeatedly said at one of the main talks that Khalsa is from Shiva! and Khalsa is Hindu-Sikh. Boy­cott these lame account­ants and pseudo kung fu nangs!

Nidar being pro­moted via her­it­age projects

someone who atten­ded their last exhib­i­tion at the Brunei Gal­lery GT 1588, where nidar was the main speaker, Mani Singh had the fol­low­ing to say

per­son­ally did attend the exhib­i­tion and yes there was some very inter­est­ing arti­facts there. The people under­tak­ing the guided tours were very pro­fes­sional and artic­u­late. It is just a shame that they were pro­mot­ing san­atamism. The guide, many times made com­par­is­ons between hindus and sikhs i.e. a sikh can be there is no dif­fer­ence between someone keep­ing their hair and those that chose not to, he talked about the rituals per­formed at Hazoor Sahib, which many right think­ing indi­vidu­als know to be totally against sikhi, ey they stated that was what our Guru ji’s wanted and what was hap­pen­ing out­side Hazoor Sahib was largely the mod­ern­ised ver­sion of sikhi!!

I was just ashamed that anti-sikh pratices were being pro­moted is such a pro­fes­sional man­ner, some­thing which is totally alien to the major­ity of sikh camps, lec­tures, lit­er­at­ure or like minded events. (Mani Singh)

Nidar Singh doing a talk at the Golden Temple exhib­i­tion teach­ing his snatan­ism Hindu-Sikh ideo­logy to unsus­pect­ing public

[taran0]

for some reason the post on sikhsangat about the Offical letter from Nihang Jathedars excommunicating Nidar has gone, does any of the admin know where it has been moved to or why it has been taken down?

im sure its just a glitch but can you look into it please

[Singh559]

for some reason the post on sikhsangat about the Offical letter from Nihang Jathedars excommunicating Nidar has gone, does any of the admin know where it has been moved to or why it has been taken down?

im sure its just a glitch but can you look into it please

I think the mods closed it. Perhaps just post it here?

Probably closed it because of the arguments going on.

[taran0]

what arguments there was no arguments going on - its an official docuemnt and for the mods to take it down doesnt make sense its main sikh news and concerns everyone, at least just take down the offending posts but the whole thread?

doesnt make sense?

[EmrysSingh]

Gidar's opinion on a real lion Baba Kulwant Singh: 'The riled up crowd, over whom even the Jathedar had no con­trol, we were deal­ing were clearly fools.' This was after Gidar and his bum-chum apologised for this comment: The recent devel­op­ment worked com­bined with their Jathedar’s lack of fight­ing spirit.......Please forward to Takht Hazur Sahib.

http://www.shastervidiya.org/letter-from-nihang-jathedars-excommunicated-niddar-singh-exclusive/