Balanced View of Hindu-Sikh Shaster Vidiya

[N30S1NGH]

If for example Niddar Singh, conformed to their own view of Sikhi and the pentras etc in the shastar vidiya system had neutral names instead of names based around avtars from Hinduism.. these same people would be raving about Niddar Singh and singing his praises...

That's probably an key and interesting point. I guess here, the main question here comes down to:

Does nihang niddar singh sacrifices methodology names of pentra's (by replacing them with neutral names) by looking at the bigger picture/maximum impact to make vidya available to the mainstream sikhi and by taking preventive measures so that his students don't get stuck in whiripoool of shiv shakat worshipping as each pentra's with demi gods of hinduism having some sort of worshipping connations behind it.

Or

He does not do any compromise on the methodology names of pentra's of demi gods of hinduism, make the vidya available to only those who are comfortable putting one full leg in sanatan hinduism. Dangers are enormous not just from rss portion but dangerous are enormous of khalsa being stuck in sarguna worship, being stuck in this whole mumbo jumbo - shiva shakat upasana instead of khalsa being ultimately - nirgun shabad upasakh.

From Gurmat point of view. Sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale was perfect bridge between joining snatan/puratan sikhi and mainstream sikhi, he did so in very careful and elegant manner so much so much that despite of many devotions paid to sarguna vahiguroo (be it towards avtars/phsyical saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth, sri sarbloh granth in one's spiritual developement (shastar puja/pentra puja/nine different types of bhagti including shiv shak etc) at the end he always upheld tat nichor of gurmat was paramount which is shabad/gyan nirgun vahiguroo instead of being stuck in whirlpool of - shiv shakat upasana which many nihangs are stuck. That's why there was much needed need for bhai vir singh ji step up with his rhetoric and books so that may be his literature can help nihangs getting out of whirlpool of shiv shakat upasana instead of actually khalsa natural state which is transcendent towards nirgun shabad.

Yes its true mainstream sikhi is highly allergic to sargun gods/many types of avtars in Indic dharams but what's even more truthful despite of mainstream sikhi being allergic or not that thats beside the point, there are enormous dangers of mindset falling into traps of sarguna worship of pentras or anything in sikhi so so much so much that main aim is totally forgotten be it in shastar vidya or anything in sikhi, this is where its extremely crucial to use - sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale as a guide to follow through Gurmat..!!

Obviously nihang niddar singh needs to decide - whats matter most to him by looking at ground reality of some of astray students who have gone totally on left and left Gurmat and overall picture-

a) provide maximum impact vidya to all mainstream sikhs by replacing pentra's with neutral names (as names it just does not matter as its part of sargun maya play anyway- it does not take anything away but only few indic traditions and those are nothing compare to great good of actual actual vidya) and by upholding importance/nirgun energy in all end lessons by telling the students sargun energy points are landmarks not the destination.

or

b) keeping going around his old way where risks are enormous not just from rss but sikhs themselves being stuck in whirlpool of sarguna shiv shakat type of worship. In sri sukhmani sahib 21st asthapadi- sri guru arjan dev ji maharaj totally goes through sargun landmark points and shakti in way of nirgun and gives reality slap checks by giving indication to each individual who is sargun maya worshipper/shakat upasakh to rise above from sargun to nirgun.

Please listen to katha of sri sukhmani sahib of 21st astphatadi by sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale

[Cisco_Singh]

the whole art form is deeply linked into mythical. cultural and historical contexts, and should not be changed to suit the belief sets of others .

people need to get a grip on reality, and understand Sikhs did not invent this at form. They are simply the last custodians of it.

[N30S1NGH]

the whole art form is deeply linked into mythical. cultural and historical contexts, and should not be changed to suit the belief sets of others .

people need to get a grip on reality, and understand Sikhs did not invent this at form. They are simply the last custodians of it.

Well Guru maharaj being the sargun guru hari avtar in kalyug era have a full right to modify the shastar vidya art as obviously- shastar vidya around guru's time didn't work effectively ..read this - http://neo-sikhism.blogspot.ca/2008/11/snatan-or-puratan-hindu-or-sikhor-you.html

"Three foot movements were known as the style of Ali. This was the Islamic martial tradition. In India there was the Hanuman Akhara tradition that employed low movements. Guru Hargobind Sahib taught shastarvidiya as a unique creation, and made manifest the Mul Pentra. This separated it from the previous traditions."

Your point regarding link to mystical/cultural and historical context- these are nothing but energy points and part of sargun maya/shakti which all cease to fold itself in nirgun void- idolizing them and wrapping your head around it is contrary to gurmat, hating them or running away from them like wussies is also contrary to Gurmat..!!!

There is nothing wrong with replacing mystical/cultural and historical context with energy points like chi energy because in essence that's exactly they are to begin with - shakti instead of pictorial version of devi/devta...all mysical/cultural/historical context are nothing in shabad nirgun vahiguroo...shabad nirgun vahiguroo is not confined by them...it does not matter so khalsa shouldn't wrap around mystical/cultural/historical context of it too much as it may sway a student away from the main goal.

That's the reason i m totally against any kind of methodological framework from both sides confining concept of shakti and bhakti in Sikhism. You have mindset here which confines only true khalsa warrior to only those learn shastar vidya and of with tamoguni nature....they are totally out of depth and lost plot in sikhi...history proves them wrong they were bhramgyanis like baba sahib singh bedi, baba bir singh ji naurangabad- yodha/khalsa warrior, sant jawala singh ji harkhowale in world war 2, sant jarnail singh bhindranwale who didn't know shastar vidya but they were khalsa saint-soliders... then you have other extreme who confines true khalsa warrior to only who were staunch veggies/having star war warrior powers only through their "branded" gurmat naam..they are also quite out of depth, in the border line of loosing the plot in sikhi...!!

Having pictorial form of energy points have risk high tedencies of swaying beginner away from sikhi path - sargun/nirgun and etka of sargun-nirgun- advait marg to worshipper of shiv shakat which is condemned in sikhi..its highly dangerous slippery slope...you guys need help from senior students of sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale to lay out- right balance approach on your website and in the pentra's .

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

Warrior ji, i'll be happy to show you my joothi vidya! Something your bibi should have done a long time ago

[khalistan_zindabaad]

The cheleh have spoken!

[THE WARRIOR]

Warrior ji, i'll be happy to show you my joothi vidya! Something your bibi should have done a long time ago

Clearly I have upset you and spoiled your party, however rest assured in no time at all you’ll broth up more poison to drink or spill, preferably the former.

[Into the Light]

The Warrior, do you think Niddar doesn't spew the same poison? According to him, we're all Malech Khalsa & SGPC Sikhs, who know nothing about Sikhi. So, thank god for Niddar who is our saviour and preserver of the Truth...lol

Ironically, Niddar is apparantly a vidvaan of Sikhi but still can't seem to string an english sentence together without saying 'whatchu ma call'

[Guest]

This thread is huge.

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

Clearly I have upset you and spoiled your party, however rest assured in no time at all you’ll broth up more poison to drink or spill, preferably the former.

Mate my partying ain't got nothing on you at disco daandiah! The only monkies drinking (niddars) poison is you pawns... Listen bhenji you need to pull up your skirt cos it might trip you up after wackin down one too many Viskeys and trying out your monkey pentra. The offer to show you my joothi vidyah is always there should you wish to take me up! Take note that I'm the last living joothi master, so I can give you some puratan shhitarr

[Babbar_Singhsta]

allow the bashing & hate , just expose him for the fraudster he is rather than making it into a hatred tread... which would be closed down