Khalsa and Shiva.

[N30S1NGH]

How do you refute the second comment on this website:

http://neo-sikhism.b...ke-shiv-ji.html

How doe we refute people saying Khalsa and Shiv Ji are same/ Khalsa is a copy of Shiv Ji.

Depending how you look at it and looking at the situation you can use this as missionary tool to bring hindus into sikhi but normally one does not have to go that extreme, vahiguroo mantar if explained correctly to hindu should be more than enough to bring hindus into sikhi fold.

1 According to puratan interpretation of japji sahib by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale- bhrama(sato) is creator, vishnu(rajo) is preserver shiv ji(tamo) is destructive force.

Given the fact we acknowledge these dieties roles in this world/multiverse/universe. We can move on and try to understand shiv/shakti concept - http://www.sikhsanga...of-shiv-shakti/ , http://www.nihangsin...hil-shakti.html (not a niddar website, real nihang website)

2. Khalsa (embodiment of sri guru gobind singh ji) is higher than shiv and its shakti given the fact khalsa have not gone astray and khalsa is only or aims to be only nirgun shabad upsakh.

3. Shiv Shakti is not some "satan" concept, its pretty much part of sargun and nirgun play in Sikhi, its used in sargun rituals/yudh (listed in sri sarbloh granth) engaged by nihangs.!! At the end of day- picture does not matter, if it makes us feel better- you can replace shiv picture with sarbloh bibeki khalsa (all though i reckon being uncomfortable around sargun concept that itself is an roadblock in one's intuition of khalsa is fluid flow between sargun and nirgun).

4. Ek shiv bhae ek gae ek fer bhae raamchandar krisan ke avtaar bhi anek hain ll (its my favorite line i have it as ringtone sung beautifully by sant isher singh ji maharaj rara sahib wale), this pauri needs to be contextualize as maharaj is telling all the followers of all avtars/dieties in sri akaal ustat kabit- those who are stuck in sarguna worship of these avtars including our own ... to get their arse up and smell the cofee that all avtars physical body had to die were reduced to dust this blunt but truthful message given to sargun worshippers of avtars of that so that maharaj can rise their surti up from sarguna to shabad nirgun vahiguroo..these no where to be seen as attacks against avtars..read the 10 page analysis on avtarvad and sikhi by tirath singh nirmala in bhavrasamrit.

There is nothing bhramanical about Vahiguroo transceding its attributes or immanent its attributes to sargun(shud satogun) avtars according to need and time. There are many different types of avtar (listen to sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale on avtars in japji sahib katha)

Jab Jab Hot Arsat Apara

Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara (Bachitar Natak)

Whenever numerous tyrants take birth

Then that one takes avtar in physical form.

Every one should read 18 long pages anyalsis in english on avtarvad and sikhi by tirath singh nirmala in Bhavrasamrit teeka translations and commentary. It's very interesting and clarifies gurmat position on avtarvaad and clears lot of misconception.

Whilst gurmat uses concept of avtar where it needs to, according to time (for guidance and to invoke devotion and prem - puran guru avtar - sri guru nanak dev ji form in 10 forms, puran hari avtars- krishna ram chandar ji etc, narsingh to kill harnakash and save parlad, nit avtars- saints etc) and for devotion for gurmukhs (sargun vahiguroo upma in our granths - sri guru granth sahib, sri dasam granth, sri sarbloh granth and other ithasik granths soraj parkash etc be it in form of gurbani tuks, mangal charan etc) it does not over emphasize importance on avtars to the point where sikhs start making same mistakes as some follower of other avtars did in the past have did - mistaking the gunas (shud satogun etc) themselves as nirgun chaitan vahiguroo instead of transcending naturally to gyan layer of sikhi or also idiolizing the avtars limited to an idol worshipping and getting stuck at idol worshipping forgetting indestructibale nirgun paratma. Hence, having dvait (duality) contary to Gurmat, as Gurmat is advait (non duality Marg).

Gurmat uses very careful and balance approach when it comes to avtarvad and Sikhi so sikhs don't pitfall like other followers of other dharams have. Gurbani contains two sides of same coin to teaching on avtar emphasing brahman (nirgun paratma) in sat chit anand ( Ad ant eko avtara sohi samjheo guru hamra) and on other side of coin presenting sargun paratma in form of our guru sahib to invoke devotion ie- prem.

Quote

Considered carefully there is no contradictions here on two sides of same coin on avtarvaad, its only clear guidance about the two paramaters by which to understand nature of avatar; the symbolic form is to inculate devotion, inspiration, adoration, love and sacrifice purely as a means to realise that which is beyond gunas

Ighai Nirugn Ughai Sargun kel Karat Bich Swami Mera

Here ( you are) formless; there (you are) with form. You play it both ways, O my swami || Ang - 827