Omnivore vs Herbavore

[13Mirch]

I have read and heard that mahapurakhs do not eat much because if u think about it, sustenance is derieved from naam (am I right?) when thats the case one gives up eating because even vegetables have life. The air we breath in contains life which gets destroyed when we inhale, the water we drink has life. All in all I think matters of food are for us who have not reached higher levels of bandgi yet. Guru Maharaj's food was Kirtan. Those who have become with Waheguru do not need food at all, whether vegetables or meat. On the other hand though just because we are dominant on earth in terms of power, doesn't mean we go around slaughtering lower life forms for our pleasures in tastes.

25. Eat less, sleep less, speak sweet and be honest.

26. Don't eat food at all, while walking and eat food slowly with patience. This from Gyani Kartar Singh Ji's instructions to Bhai Amrik Singh Ji.

[Singh559]

I have read and heard that mahapurakhs do not eat much because if u think about it, sustenance is derieved from naam (am I right?) when thats the case one gives up eating because even vegetables have life. The air we breath in contains life which gets destroyed when we inhale, the water we drink has life. All in all I think matters of food are for us who have not reached higher levels of bandgi yet. Guru Maharaj's food was Kirtan. Those who have become with Waheguru do not need food at all, whether vegetables or meat. On the other hand though just because we are dominant on earth in terms of power, doesn't mean we go around slaughtering lower life forms for our pleasures in tastes.

25. Eat less, sleep less, speak sweet and be honest.

26. Don't eat food at all, while walking and eat food slowly with patience. This from Gyani Kartar Singh Ji's instructions to Bhai Amrik Singh Ji.

Yogis who live in mountains and those who eat nothing can slow their metabolism to live well over 100 years without eating anything, but for a Sikh this is pointless if you can't do sewa of humanity.

A Sikh doesn't eat little, but eats less and doesn't eat in excess. Guru Sahib told us to train in shastar vidiya, ghor sawari, wrestling and other martial arts. In order to be active we need to eat.

Eating to be physically fit doesn't constitute eating too much.

Plants feel just as much pain as we do. We just don't understand it as we're animals.

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 142

mÚ 1 ]

vyKu ij imTw kitAw kit kuit bDw pwie ]

KuMFw AMdir riK kY dyin su ml sjwie ]

rsu ksu ttir pweIAY qpY qY ivllwie ]

BI so Pogu smwlIAY idcY Aig jwlwie ]

nwnk imTY pqrIAY vyKhu lokw Awie ]2]

First Mehla:

Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||

[luckysingh99]

Dear Curious2know-

I don't think anyone is avoiding or dodging or even trying to defend their faith by hiding for that matter.

You have been given the most famous shabad by Guru Nanak Ji about only the ''fools wrangle over eating flesh and meat''

Bottom line is that, -Sikhism does NOT dictate whether you eat veggie or not. You seem to think that we all have to be veggie-This is a wrong and misleading conclusion.

Sikhism tells YOU to Decide what seems right or wrong and NOT to argue about it.

Let me make it a little more clear,- A baptised full sikh or amritdhari sikh can be excommunicated for many forms of misconduct such as consumption of alcohol, taking tobacco..etc...

However,you CANNOT be excommunicated for eating meat!!!!!!!!!!!!

So,bottom line is YOU decide what you feel.

- If you feel it crueland wrong, then be veggier.

- If you feel no wrong and that's what your body needs, then feel free to consume whatever your taste buds demand

[Singh559]

Do plants respond to pain?

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/site/sn/video/player/latest-videos/do-plants-respond-to-pain/407509484001/

Now you may be thinking, okay so compassion isn't just for animals, but also for plants so how can we decide what to eat and what not to eat?

Look at an independent source.

List of Albert Einstein quotes:

"So I am living without fats, without meat, without fish, but am feeling quite well this way. It always seems to me that man was not born to be a carnivore."

"Although I have been prevented by outward circumstances from observing a strictly vegetarian diet, I have long been an adherent to the cause in principle. Besides agreeing with the aims of vegetarianism for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind." Translation of letter to Hermann Huth, December 27, 1930. Einstein Archive 46-756

[Only five]

Is that a threat? Bravo Singh jee!

Relax!!!! its not a threat, but telling her others don't think very highly of her reasoning. And many people think shes...............

Speak for yourself only please. There is no punishment in Sikhi for being nice to even those who might be your enemies. Guess what, some Singhs did take Bhai Kanhaiyya jee (or Bhai Kanhaiyya Singh jee rather) to Guru Sahib, but ultimately Guru Sahib showered His love upon Bhai Sahib. People like me can only wish and dream to be 1% of Bhai Kanhaiyya jee.

Actually i won't speak for myself as the teacher who i was speaking about here is Sant ji. A Naamdhari (the video of this situation is on youtube if you would like to hear it) comes to Sant ji's jatha and ask about Dasam Bani, much like the OP of this thread is asking about Sikhi. If you hear the words that Sant ji uses against this Naamdhari, you would think Sant ji is rude, just like how you think i am being right now.....by saying to me, speak for yourself. Sant ji tells the sangat that his jatha should have asked the Naamdhari, why are you here when you have your own Guru, go ask him about Dasam Bani. Much like the OP, who in her signature says her Guru is Allah (Koran) Again the Naamdhari was acting much like the OP here. The Naamdhari was trying to be smart and out smart the Singhs. The same is being done here by the OP................i can't read Gurbani because i will go to hell, but i want to know about Sikhi :stupidme: :stupidme: :stupidme: .......You even acknowledge that she is being smart below, but you completely miss the point above. I have no problem explaining Sikhi as i have done it in the past in open discussions and actually changed a professors take on Sikhi. But when it comes to people who state the above, I take Sant ji's approach to the problem. You may think its rude, harsh, discouraging others to join Sikhi, but a horse that don't want drink the water and then says i want to be led to the water is only pulling your leg.

Having said that, I must say that you do raise an important point. Lori, we've been trying to explain Sikhi using Gurbani. If you can't be bothered to read/understand it (if you haven't that is), I am sorry but its just pointless to waste time trying to explain anything. Gurbani is the foundation of Sikhi, and if you choose not to read it to understand Sikhi, I guess we can't help you out here. We don't have a problem with you asking questions, but please, we don't have fairy tales either for entertainment. The holy words that you are blessed to read have been gifted to the Sikh nation after much sacrifices. The Gurus embraced martyrdom but held high the glory and esteem of these holy words. Please answer us, once and for all, if you are ready to read and respect Gurbani.

[Mehtab Singh]

Onlyfive, Sant Jee was a Brahmgyani, how can you imitate him unless you were one yourself?

[Mehtab Singh]

Dear Curious2know-

I don't think anyone is avoiding or dodging or even trying to defend their faith by hiding for that matter.

You have been given the most famous shabad by Guru Nanak Ji about only the ''fools wrangle over eating flesh and meat''

Bottom line is that, -Sikhism does NOT dictate whether you eat veggie or not. You seem to think that we all have to be veggie-This is a wrong and misleading conclusion.

Sikhism tells YOU to Decide what seems right or wrong and NOT to argue about it.

Let me make it a little more clear,- A baptised full sikh or amritdhari sikh can be excommunicated for many forms of misconduct such as consumption of alcohol, taking tobacco..etc...

However,you CANNOT be excommunicated for eating meat!!!!!!!!!!!!

So,bottom line is YOU decide what you feel.

- If you feel it crueland wrong, then be veggier.

- If you feel no wrong and that's what your body needs, then feel free to consume whatever your taste buds demand

Singh jee, it all depends what your Panj Pyaare told you about meat. Several Amrit Sanchaars meat is clearly forbidden and is counted as a bajjar kurehit (transgression, or cardinal vice).

[Only five]

Dear Curious2know-

I don't think anyone is avoiding or dodging or even trying to defend their faith by hiding for that matter.

You have been given the most famous shabad by Guru Nanak Ji about only the ''fools wrangle over eating flesh and meat''

Please read these tuks in context of the Shabad. Many take these lines to say meat eating is allowed, but Satguru is not saying this at all. Instead Satguru is saying why are you arguing over meat, when you don't know nothing about spiritual wisdom. Breaking it down further, its like a 1st grade student saying move out of the way i know how to do this surgery.

Bottom line is that, -Sikhism does NOT dictate whether you eat veggie or not. You seem to think that we all have to be veggie-This is a wrong and misleading conclusion.

Sikhi does tell us what is acceptable to eat. Even the jatha, like Nihang Singhs say Sikhi tells them what to eat and not to eat.

Sikhism tells YOU to Decide what seems right or wrong and NOT to argue about it.

No, Sikhi says to follow Satguru. If you are able to decide for yourself, then you don't need a teacher (a Guru), Which translates into you don't need Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji............do you get where this is leading?

Let me make it a little more clear,- A baptised full sikh or amritdhari sikh can be excommunicated for many forms of misconduct such as consumption of alcohol, taking tobacco..etc...

However,you CANNOT be excommunicated for eating meat!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me be more clear, you can't be excommunicated for bujjar kurhet, but can be excommunicated for stating that Sikhi allows you to eat meat and then enforce publish such material to show rest of the world.

So,bottom line is YOU decide what you feel.

- If you feel it crueland wrong, then be veggier.

- If you feel no wrong and that's what your body needs, then feel free to consume whatever your taste buds demand

So end of the line...................Sikhi does speak about what is allowed to be eaten. Jhatka is allowed in certain situations, but meat is not allowed at all.

[Sherdil]

Well, since this thread is being allowed...I humbly offer the full shabad by Guru Nanak, from a non-veg perspective.

mÚ 1 ]

ma 1 ||

First Mehla:

maas maas kar moorakh jhagarrae giaan dhhiaan nehee jaanai ||

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

koun maas koun saag kehaavai kis mehi paap samaanae ||

What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?

gai(n)addaa maar hom jag keeeae dhaevathiaa kee baanae ||

It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.

History: Hindus originally ate meat. Buddha advocated non-violence and vegetarianism. In an effort to absorb Buddhism, the Pandits adopted vegetarianism.

maas shhodd bais nak pakarrehi raathee maanas khaanae ||

Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.

People who renounce meat, still devour the flesh of another when they engage in nightly carnal pleasures.

farr kar lokaa(n) no dhikhalaavehi giaan dhhiaan nehee soojhai ||

They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.

naanak a(n)dhhae sio kiaa keheeai kehai n kehiaa boojhai ||

O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.

a(n)dhhaa soe j a(n)dhh kamaavai this ridhai s lochan naahee ||

They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.

maath pithaa kee rakath nipa(n)nae mashhee maas n khaa(n)hee ||

They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.

You are born from flesh, yet you forsake it.

eisathree purakhai jaa(n) nis maelaa outhhai ma(n)dhh kamaahee ||

But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.

Again, you devouring the flesh of another in carnal pleasure, but you do not eat meat.

maasahu ni(n)mae maasahu ja(n)mae ham maasai kae bhaa(n)ddae ||

In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.

giaan dhhiaan kashh soojhai naahee chathur kehaavai paa(n)ddae ||

You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

baahar kaa maas ma(n)dhaa suaamee ghar kaa maas cha(n)gaeraa ||

O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.

You say that eating meat is bad, but you devour the flesh of your spouse.

jeea ja(n)th sabh maasahu hoeae jeee laeiaa vaasaeraa ||

All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh.

All beings includes plants

abhakh bhakhehi bhakh thaj shhoddehi a(n)dhh guroo jin kaeraa ||

They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind.

maasahu ni(n)mae maasahu ja(n)mae ham maasai kae bhaa(n)ddae ||

In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.

giaan dhhiaan kashh soojhai naahee chathur kehaavai paa(n)ddae ||

You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

maas puraanee maas kathaeba(n)aee chahu jug maas kamaanaa ||

Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used.

jaj kaaj veeaahi suhaavai outhhai maas samaanaa ||

It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.

eisathree purakh nipajehi maasahu paathisaah sulathaanaa(n) ||

Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat.

We are all born from the flesh of our mothers

jae oue dhisehi narak jaa(n)dhae thaa(n) ounh kaa dhaan n lainaa ||

If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them.

Explained in the next line. If those who gave you the gift of this flesh body are to go to hell, then you should not have accepted their gift.

dhae(n)adhaa narak surag laidhae dhaekhahu eaehu dhhin(g)aanaa ||

The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice.

To give you this body of flesh, your parents had to engage in "sin". You may meditate and achieve salvation, but those who gave you life will have to suffer for their "sin". This doesn't seem fair.

aap n boojhai lok bujhaaeae paa(n)ddae kharaa siaanaa ||

You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed.

paa(n)ddae thoo jaanai hee naahee kithhahu maas oupa(n)naa ||

O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated.

Guru ji will now explain the origins of meat

thoeiahu a(n)n kamaadh kapaahaa(n) thoeiahu thribhavan ga(n)naa ||

Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water.

thoaa aakhai ho bahu bidhh hashhaa thoai bahuth bikaaraa ||

Water says, ""I am good in many ways."" But water takes many forms.

Water takes many forms. This includes plants and meat. They originate from the same source.

eaethae ras shhodd hovai sa(n)niaasee naanak kehai vichaaraa ||2||

Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2||

With all that being said, Guru ji reminds us that we should not become attached to any kind of food.

[Only five]

Onlyfive, Sant Jee was a Brahmgyani, how can you imitate him unless you were one yourself?

Can we imitate Gurbani? What you call imitation, i call learning and then applying. I think i picked up Sant ji's lesson in the video very nicely as the OP has avoided at every point in her time on sikhsangat to not answer the question i asked her. Hence shows she is pulling yours and everyone elses leg. Sant ji actually tells Sikhs to give a response to such people. I have no problem wiping the OP's shoes, but i won't be taken for a ride as she is doing to others. Been yelled at many times by the sangat in Gurdwaras for doing seva as they didn't agree with the seva, but that won't stop be from doing the seva again, even if its their possessions i will be doing seva of.