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Amritdharis and non-amritdharis.


13Mirch
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I think even samparda's parchariks agree on this fact that nobody knows how to bring non sikhs into sikhi fold more than -approach of sri singh sahib harbhajan singh yogi who single handly with maharaj kirpa bought lakhs- 100,000 + of non sikhs (be it white/asian/hispanic/black) into sikhi fold..So i think we sikhs need to use this approach. But sadly even he was bringing lot of non sikhs into sikhi fold he found resistance from our punjabi tribal community who were quite jealous of white sikhs. Despite of his difference of opnions, some of minor questionable approach- sri singh sahib harbhajan singh yogi was immensly respected by every one and by every jatha and samparda- sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale, sant jarnail singh bhindranwale, bhai fauja singh ji akj, nihang baba nihal singh ji, sant maharaj isher singh ji rara sahib wale and all five takth sahib jathedars..!!!!!!!!

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Naam can not really be defined well enough because some of the sargun aspects can be described as you may see this in jaap sahib. Although when it comes to the nirgun aspect of God the only thing one can say is na roop, na rang, na rekh etc As the perceiver is no more and the assumptions made of God from that aspect are from 'your' own non existance/ego.

Realisation of naam could take a long time as it only through his kirpa. But once you know how to jaap naam properly then you will be liberated in a second. Gurmat naam gives liberation instantly from all our sins it is not a long practice of repeating mantar over again for the aim to remove past karma slowly (this would show that naam is not that powerful) - this repetition although we could say will help us to find the true naam.

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Kullykhalsa ji, you bought up very good point.

I have seen this myself in my local gurdwara, you have holier than thou attitude singhs sitting in a langar yapping away like ladies while mone non amritdharis are doing all the langar di seva then these same type -holier than thou attitude singhs turn around and say- mona are not allowed to do in seva. There is definitely lot of hypocrisy in our amritdhari lot as well.

Yep i have seen this too, and it makes the other members of the sangat feel lower.

Its not only guys, also women do it too, they think they own the gurdwara just becoz they are amritdhari, and everybody is nothing. To me that only shows they have ego problems. An amritdhari female has never spoken or smiled at me in a gurdwara, and only communicate with other amritdharis, whereas I find those that are not amritdhari have. But that doesnt put me off going to the gurdwara, coz i go for Maharaj jis darshan...

But to be looked at as if ur dirt, or alien, is not a nice welcome, while they are laughing away, feels like they are laughing at me..you cant tell...coz they will not come out of their "lets not look at or talk to non-amritdhari" gangs....I feel its the younger generation that are like this nowadays more rather than the elders..

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Yep i have seen this too, and it makes the other members of the sangat feel lower.

Its not only guys, also women do it too, they think they own the gurdwara just becoz they are amritdhari, and everybody is nothing. To me that only shows they have ego problems. An amritdhari female has never spoken or smiled at me in a gurdwara, and only communicate with other amritdharis, whereas I find those that are not amritdhari have. But that doesnt put me off going to the gurdwara, coz i go for Maharaj jis darshan...

But to be looked at as if ur dirt, or alien, is not a nice welcome, while they are laughing away, feels like they are laughing at me..you cant tell...coz they will not come out of their "lets not look at or talk to non-amritdhari" gangs....I feel its the younger generation that are like this nowadays more rather than the elders..

Don't feel bad penji. Even fellow amritdhari brothers are discriminated by "holier than thou type" sikhs.

I share my own experience at dixie gurdwara:

I have hardly met a singh who is happy and who laughs, they all serious and gives me rigid robotic fateh to me why? because i wear england style pag? I did switch to dumalla..it was interesting experience..lol..i do wear neela dummalla now singh because i didn't want to be isolated and lonely with my broken england style pagh..but sad thing of all - i didn't had have to switch pagg style to get gursikhi embracement from "holier than thou" types who walk around entitlement think they own sikhi with their tribalism..!!!!!!

Here is another disgusting punjabi tribalism issue which has super imposed itself on Gurmat and hijacked Gurmat.!!

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Don't feel bad penji. Even fellow amritdhari brothers are discriminated by "holier than thou type" sikhs.

I share my own experience at dixie gurdwara:

Here is another disgusting punjabi tribalism issue which has super imposed itself on Gurmat and hijacked Gurmat.!!

I dont feel bad about it paji, but just stating what is happening, it doesnt bother me nomore, as i been thru enough dukh and people acting weird towards me coz of an illness, but people dont know as I look normal sometimes. It doesnt affect me nomore but i just think to myself that why do they do it. Its the non-amritdharis that look towards them for knowledge and respect, and they dont let them join in, or make an effort, so how is the sangat suppose to mix? It shouldnt be 2sided, sangat should be mixed, as god did not create everybody the same, and especially the ones that were not amritdhari b4..after becoming think they know it all. Aap life full enjoy karli, disco dusco jaake, sharab peeke, drugs karke, eh woh what not, not sayin all like this, but few that are, then they try to preach others how to become godloving lolz..even to the ones that dont do half the stuff they did. I tend to keep away from them type, coz they keep away from me..simple

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Do you think there is a widening gap of sorts between amritdharis and non-amritdharis?

I personally feel there's a widening rift and blame a sort of "fundamentalism" mentality. It definitely feels like "if you're not amritdhari, you're nothing/nobody". You see it here in some posts.

he is saying that amrit is not necessary and amritdharis have a violent agenda in wearing the Kirpan.

I've encountered two moneh who feel Amrit is unnecessary and believe following Guru Nanak's message of "Naam japna, Kirat karni and vand chakna" is enough in this life. Not heard about anti-Kirpan messages.

1. Sikh is pure prem marg towards Guru, so we need to stop with our guilt trips in Sikhi Camps, they fire back miserably. No one likes jevoh witness/protestant/anglican type of parchar shoved down their throats, people will revolt against it..its just human nature. We need to learn from mahapursh how to do parchar...!!

Agree - Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't start off by going round, brandishing a blade and demanding five heads. He came with love. It was through love (for Akal Purakh, for humanity) that he brought people into Sikhi.

2. One thing i really like about dodra sangat that they do allow mona's to do kirtan and in rehensbhai.

This is a much better approach. You're encouraging the Sikhi within the mona to flourish through this. Said Sikh is more likely to grow their hair and take Amrit.

4. Introduce beautiful sikh theological concepts- sargun and nirgun of Vahiguroo intertwine relationship, karam, hakum, razza. reincarnation in Sikhi than jumping to maryada right away in the camps. Maryada will fall itself in place later on once they are more familiar with our traditions.

Agree - respect for maryada can follow love for Sikhi.

5. When discussing maryada with mona's, start with minimal requirements by per sri akaal takth sahib maryada instead of super imposing your jatha or samparda maryada on top, give them option.

I would take it to an even more basic level. Make it initially simpler to follow and then build up. You don't start educating a child by breaking out War and Peace. You start with teaching the alphabet.

6. Devotional singing of gurbani, vichar on gurbani for starters are best way to get rid of divide between amritdharis and non amritdharis instead of jumping right to contoversial topics like- meat, ragmalla, vichar on various maryada.

Again - including everyone and excluding no-one brings together a sense of community, a sense of "sangat".

I'm not amritdhari. There are times when I feel I've been treated like crap. The amritdhari does not consider how they come across. It can be enough to turn people away from Sikhi. I've kept company with Amritdhari who have reinforced my Sikhi, meaning I awoke at Amritvela, did Japji Sahib paath, went to Gurdwara etc. With these Amritdharis, I never felt an outcast and learned more about Sikhi than I ever did from anywhere else.

Surely, if Amritdharis feel they are superior to others, they are no better than the Brahmins who looked down those they deemed below them? Is it not ego that then feeds their feeling of superiority? Or is it a case of "we're all equal, but some are more equal than others"?.

I've always felt Sikhi is like a rainbow but often feel (esp on here) that there are those who want to turn it into black and white, yes or now, right or wrong.

I used to frown on moneh, especially when their kids were moneh. I used to think those who ate meat were evil. Then I saw a monah matta tek to Guru Ji and something changed inside me. What was bitter became less so, and I saw not a monah but a Sikh bowing to his Guru.

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OK, this means we must all have different concepts of naam.

In your best and shortest description, how would you define naam ?

Naam is basically a Name of Akaal Purakh. There is not one but countless names that devotees have named Him according to what they think He does...also known as 'kirtam naam'.

When a person accepts a spiritual Guru to be his guide....he is given a Gurmantar.

Our Guru has given us the gurmantar - Waheguru.

Now, to get the Gurmantar, one has to accept Guru Granth Saheb Ji as their Guru.

How does that happen? ----- By getting Amrit.

So, step by step --- 1. Take Amrit

2. Accept Guru ji to be your spiritual guide.

3. Get the Gurmantar (which can only be given by the Panj Pyare).

4. Japp Naam

EASY PEASY! :D

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Now, to get the Gurmantar, one has to accept Guru Granth Saheb Ji as their Guru.

How does that happen? ----- By getting Amrit.

So, step by step --- 1. Take Amrit

2. Accept Guru ji to be your spiritual guide.

3. Get the Gurmantar (which can only be given by the Panj Pyare).

4. Japp Naam

EASY PEASY! :D

You are implying that to ''accept your Guru to be Guru Granth Sahib ji, you must first take amrit!!'

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here.

There are far to many sikhs on here with these biased views. The amritdharis feel that they have an advantage, in this sense they are NO better than the hindu brahmin caste.

You guys should stop and just listen to what you are saying here.

These attitudes are just like the brahmins.

There is NOTHING GURMATT about these attitudes and expressions.

Some of you amrithdharis sound exactly like the sadhus that questioned Guru Nanak Ji in 'Sidh Ghisht'.

With regards to ''NAAM'' - most of you think that this is the special gurmantar only given by by your babas or deras.

You think it is like a password to gain spirituality and gyaan!!!

Let me tell a little about ''Naam''

- Naam is something deep within all of us, even kauda raksh had it!

To be able to connect with this naam is to be the closest you can be to God and creation.

You do NOT, I repeat do NOT have to be amritdhari to ''connect' with this naam that is within.

There are many non-amritdharies that are connected with this naam much more than some of their fellow amritdharis.

These monai or trimmed bearded folks are in consonance with naam and contemplate the lord in all their work and actions.

If a an amritdhari claims that ony he has the 'key to unlock' and access the naam connection, then I am afraid, that very amritdhari is much further away from the very naam himself and living in cuckoo land!!

His actions and attitude are completely not in any state of naam.

Please don't insult and deface the very word ''naam'' with this brahminised garbage talk of ''I am, I am,...amritdhari only,amrithdhari only,...me,me,me,me......''

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