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Sikh perspective on Eid and slaughtering of countless animals.


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This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Maaroo on Pannaa 1102

rwgu mwrU bwxI kbIr jIau kI

<> siqgur pRswid ]

pfIAw kvn kumiq qum lwgy ]

bUfhugy prvwr skl isau rwmu n jphu ABwgy ]1] rhwau ]

byd purwn pVy kw ikAw gunu Kr cMdn js Bwrw ]

rwm nwm kI giq nhI jwnI kYsy auqris pwrw ]1]

jIA bDhu su Drmu kir Qwphu ADrmu khhu kq BweI ]

Awps kau muinvr kir Qwphu kw kau khhu ksweI ]2]

mn ky AMDy Awip n bUJhu kwih buJwvhu BweI ]

mwieAw kwrn ibidAw bychu jnmu AibrQw jweI ]3]

nwrd bcn ibAwsu khq hY suk kau pUChu jweI ]

kih kbIr rwmY rim CUthu nwih q bUfy BweI ]4]1]

raag maaroo baanee kabeer jeeo kee

ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||

paddeeaa kavan kumath thum laagae ||

booddahugae paravaar sakal sio raam n japahu abhaagae ||1|| rehaao ||

baedh puraan parrae kaa kiaa gun khar cha(n)dhan jas bhaaraa ||

raam naam kee gath nehee jaanee kaisae outharas paaraa ||1||

jeea badhhahu s dhharam kar thhaapahu adhharam kehahu kath bhaaee ||

aapas ko muni// kar thhaapahu kaa ko kehahu kasaaee ||2||

man kae a(n)dhhae aap n boojhahu kaahi bujhaavahu bhaaee ||

maaeiaa kaaran bidhiaa baechahu janam abirathhaa jaaee ||3||

naaradh bachan biaas kehath hai suk ko pooshhahu jaaee ||

kehi kabeer raamai ram shhoottahu naahi th booddae bhaaee ||4||1||

Raag Maaroo, The Word Of Kabeer Jee:

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

O Pandit, O religious scholar, in what foul thoughts are you engaged?

You shall be drowned, along with your family, if you do not meditate on the Lord, you unfortunate person. ||1||Pause||

What is the use of reading the Vedas and the Puraanas? It is like loading a donkey with sandalwood.

You do not know the exalted state of the Lord's Name; how will you ever cross over? ||1||

You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action?

You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||

You are blind in your mind, and do not understand your own self; how can you make others understand, O brother?

For the sake of Maya and money, you sell knowledge; your life is totally worthless. ||3||

Naarad and Vyaasa say these things; go and ask Suk Dayv as well.

Says Kabeer, chanting the Lord's Name, you shall be saved; otherwise, you shall drown, brother. ||4||1||

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Should Sikhs be wishing eid to muslims on this day where countless innocent animals are sacrificed in the name of allah? No, this is mere barbaric and inhumane ritualism.

Sikhs should live and let live, but shouldn't go out of our way to support such violent behavior in the name of political correctness. Guru Amar Das Ji didn't allow bibian to enter the langer or congregation/Sangat while they had a burqa or hijab on, but Sikhs didn't go to ban it.

Similarly we shouldn't condone such actions of halal killing of animals because this a backward cultural ritual, not something of the dharam itself.

edit - another perspective posted by Ravi Singh paaji on facebook that I agree with.

This may offend some people: I seen posts where a few Sikhs are so venomous towards the Muslim festival of Eid. The worst thing is that many of these " objectors" are themselves clean shaven etc, if they hate other religions so much then why not at least show yourselves as Sikhs, in image at least. The usual excuses " oh , i am not a good Sikh so its not right for me to keep my hair or wear a turban but one day i will !" or " I seen people with turbans do bad stuff so i dont want to do the same !" So does this mean that they dont mind looking like Muslims, Hindus, Christians by cutting their hair but then swear n shout at other religions ? By all means scream at others beliefs if it makes you happy or a better person but at least portray yourself in a Sikhi roop ! The Sikh community has a huge alcohol problem and the majority eat meat so when our own house is in crises then how can we point fingers at others ?!!? I said about the meat issue because i seen posts from Sikhs which state Eid is a festival of slaughter, yes, it is a festival of slaughter and i strongly disagree with such stuff but the animals most Sikhs eat don't grow on trees, they too are slaughtered ! Its easy to hate others but very hard to reflect on our own weaknesses !
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Should Sikhs be wishing eid to muslims on this day where countless innocent animals are sacrificed in the name of allah? No, this is mere barbaric and inhumane ritualism.

Sikhs should live and let live, but shouldn't go out of our way to support such violent behavior in the name of political correctness. Guru Amar Das Ji didn't allow bibian to enter the langer or congregation/Sangat while they had a burqa or hijab on, but Sikhs didn't go to ban it.

Similarly we shouldn't condone such actions of halal killing of animals because this a backward cultural ritual, not something of the dharam itself.

edit - another perspective posted by Ravi Singh paaji on facebook that I agree with.

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Its up to you if you want to give you best wishes to someone celebrating a religious festival. However, slaugthering animals in the halal way is part of their dharam. They do it to commerate Abarham's sacifiace to god. It's is the sunnah of Hazrat Ibrahim that they do this ritual.

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Who are you or we to say their religious acts/festival is barbaric or wrong?

2ndly, Guru Maharaj disallowed bibian wearin hijabs from having Guru Ka Langar? Do you even know what a hijab is?? A mere head scarf covering the head.

3rdly, how about we sweep under our own bed first?? The number of "sikh" who justify eating meat etc monay, alcoholics BOTH monay ad Kesadhari, drugs... How about we take a look at them? Instead of attempting to interfere with external affairs.

A Sikh should embrace their Muslim brothers and sisters and congratulate them on their festivities. If you have an issue with any ot their internal matters, simply DO NOT TAKE PART IN THEIR FESTIVITIES. Its their business. And until we dont take care of our own business, we are no one to point fingers and far from dishing out advice.

Some of your points are totally out of order veerji.

Pul chuk maaf ji.

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Sikhs should live and let live, but shouldn't go out of our way to support such violent behavior in the name of political correctness. Guru Amar Das Ji didn't allow bibian to enter the langer or congregation/Sangat while they had a burqa or hijab on, but Sikhs didn't go to ban it.

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Veer I'm pretty sure it was just bibiya wearing a niqaab or burqa. A hijab isnt anything like a burqa its just a scarf as S4ngh answered. And bibiya usually wore suits in Punjab so they mostly wore a chunni on their head which would be similar to a hijab. Burqa covers the face and thats what Guru Ji didn't allow from my knowledge.

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If it's sacred to them then all power to them when they practice their right to do whatever it is they do --- as long as that doesn't involve me in any way. :biggrin2:

Like certain practices are sacred to Sikhs I reckon I'd be pretty peeved if someone came up and said to me "What you're doing is false".

But, yes, I personally do think the slaughtering of animals on such a large scale is unsavoury, and I think this is the point Singh was illustrating. Religion aside, anyone with an ounce of compassion for living things must baulk at such senseless slaughter of animals. Although I expect some chancer to come along and talk about millions of bacteria dying, etc., to which I reply :lol2:. I'm sure we've encountered Sikhs who think the sacred acts of keeping kesh and rehat are unnecessary, so what can you do, lol? Just go with the flow!

But if we go into "Your religion and its rites are false whilst mine are true" then we're into controversial territory!

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If we can have same attitude towards NOT wishing thanksgiving day to westerners on same premises countless animals gets slaughtered in name of GOD during this event then we are following the principle of it- more props to all but if we don't follow same attitude..need i say more? then we are following double standards tut tut ..do be do quack quack quack.. :nono:

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Veer I'm pretty sure it was just bibiya wearing a niqaab or burqa. A hijab isnt anything like a burqa its just a scarf as S4ngh answered. And bibiya usually wore suits in Punjab so they mostly wore a chunni on their head which would be similar to a hijab. Burqa covers the face and thats what Guru Ji didn't allow from my knowledge.

Yeah, you're right, my bad.

If it's sacred to them then all power to them when they practice their right to do whatever it is they do --- as long as that doesn't involve me in any way. :biggrin2:

Like certain practices are sacred to Sikhs I reckon I'd be pretty peeved if someone came up and said to me "What you're doing is false".

But, yes, I personally do think the slaughtering of animals on such a large scale is unsavoury, and I think this is the point Singh was illustrating. Religion aside, anyone with an ounce of compassion for living things must baulk at such senseless slaughter of animals. Although I expect some chancer to come along and talk about millions of bacteria dying, etc., to which I reply :lol2:. I'm sure we've encountered Sikhs who think the sacred acts of keeping kesh and rehat are unnecessary, so what can you do, lol? Just go with the flow!

But if we go into "Your religion and its rites are false whilst mine are true" then we're into controversial territory!

Yeah I hear you on that. I'm not against the slaughtering of animals, but I feel it's inhumane which is why Sikhs are strictly forbidden from eating halaal. Many moderate Muslims (some that I see proud of their views on twitter) say doing halaal of goats and whatnot is pure cultural ritualism and not a part of Islam as are many other practices.

I don't know much, but he went into detail how many years after Prophet Mohammad a man came and reintroduced a lot of pagan arabic practices such as worshipping a black stone that looks like a tea cup full of tea.

If we can have same attitude towards NOT wishing thanksgiving day to westerners on same premises countless animals gets slaughtered in name of GOD during this event then we are following the principle of it- more props to all but if we don't follow same attitude..need i say more? then we are following double standards tut tut ..do be do quack quack quack.. :nono:

I celebrate thanksgiving so how is that hypocritical? I am a vegetarian as well, but this isn't an issue of non-veg vs. veg which is why that example doesn't work.

The reason for this topic is specifically isolating slitting of the throat of an animal and letting it suffer before it can finally die.

Also, last I checked there is a standard for humane killing of animals here in the west, even if it isn't followed sometimes. I forgot the name of that book (read it psychology) from the 1920s where the man exposed the meat packing industry. Here in the west we have intellectual thought and discussion and thus can create more humane and ethical means of taking a life and keeping life if we take the proper avenues. The second we question ritualism like this a bunch of political correct zombies try to eat your brains.

I'll be honest, the main purpose of this thread was to be a bit inflammatory just so we can get some thought process going on. I know for a fact most people say Happy Eid just because they don't understand what they're supporting. I'm not against Eid, nor am I against saying happy Eid, I just feel people should be educated and well versed in both sides of the argument.

The day you can't be critical of rituals is a day I would not like.

edit- I just remembered, the book's name is The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.

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Slitting the throat only hurts for animals who don't have military training.

Just look at General Brar. At 78 years old, he was able to fight off multiple attackers that were much younger than him. That is why he didn't bleed to death from his injuries, and is giving interviews on Indian television today.

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Religion aside, anyone with an ounce of compassion for living things must baulk at such senseless slaughter of animals.

Why is it senseless? It is to you, but to them its Gods work, as they give the meat out free to all who want it. Forget what they do, lets concentrate on :

a) getting Sikhs to accept Sri Akal Takht Sahib Maryada, that Halal is an absolute no-no for Sikhs;

or

b) if you beleive that a vegetarian Sikh is the true Sikh, then to promote that.

Father Christmas is very compassionate, but millions of Turkeys are killed in Dorset, UK, alone.

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Father Christmas is very compassionate, but millions of Turkeys are killed in Dorset, UK, alone.

That's what i was saying regarding thanksgiving day which millions of turkeys are killed in US yet we don't have any problem saying- happy thanksgiving day to gorreh's...for them without turkey there is no thanksgiving ..i once said - happy thanksgiving to gorreh at work he turned around saying - happy thanksgiving to you too but then asked me- you having a nice cooked turkey eh? oh boi that was bit awkard moment..i didn't know what to say back just brushed it off..!!

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happy thanksgiving to you too but then asked me- you having a nice cooked turkey eh? oh boi that was bit awkard moment..i didn't know what to say back just brushed it off..!!

You should have said something about your wife being a terrible cook, and she put you off thanksgiving turkeys for life.

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That's what i was saying regarding thanksgiving day which millions of turkeys are killed in US yet we don't have any problem saying- happy thanksgiving day to gorreh's...for them without turkey there is no thanksgiving ..i once said - happy thanksgiving to gorreh at work he turned around saying - happy thanksgiving to you too but then asked me- you having a nice cooked turkey eh? oh boi that was bit awkard moment..i didn't know what to say back just brushed it off..!!

Just should have proudly said I'm more of a corn on a cob and mashed patatos kind of guy...lol

Gurbani says fools argue over eating meat, but in the Gurbani in the original post it makes it clear that such ritualism is pointless and hypocritical. So please don't turn this into a mean vs. veg discussion, clearly in the west there is a standard of humanely killing animals for whatever reason and again, if you go the proper avenues you can change a lot.

Why Sikhs don't eat halaal is because it's done reciting kalaam and because it's torturing a life. Sab mein jot jot hai soe, tis de chaanan sab mein chaanan hoe. If you torture even one soul, you're torturing Waheguru.

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Why is it senseless? It is to you, but to them its Gods work, as they give the meat out free to all who want it.

Giving it out for free doesn't negate the manner in which the animal is killed. If they think by handing out meat will somehow balance the scales of "justice" in their favour (by cancelling out the animal slaughter) then they're having a laugh.

Yet still I say they (and anyone else for that matter) can do whatever they like. I just don't agree with it, and I'll stick to whatever sits right with my conscience.

Put it this way: If I wasn't a Sikh I still wouldn't eat meat. That's the easiest way I can describe where I'm coming from.

Some people eat meat but prefer not to think about how it ended up on their plate. Apparently it puts them off. :biggrin2: Not me though. I'm a bird-seed and leaf eater.

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