Niddar nang and his letter

[Guest]

" 2. Have I really been disowned by Nihang groups in India?

I recently came across a letter published on the internet alleging mischief on my part and purporting to be signed by various heads of Nihang groups to which I am affiliated by tradition.

Alerted by the absence of letterheads or dates, and personally having met several of the supposed signatories within the past year, I contacted them. They assured me that the letter was a forgery and that the individuals involved in producing this fake document had been identified.

In fact, I was told that if they were ever spotted in any Nihang encampment in India in the future, they would be dealt with harshly, using the traditional form of punishment meted out to a slanderer. I will be visiting the Nihang leaders in person later this year on a research trip and will follow up on these discussions.

It appears that the motive of these character assassins is to diminish my standing and influence in the community. Why?

It is alleged that one of their underlying goals is to perpetrate what a wise old man once called ‘salvation fraud’, i.e. they wish to promote themselves as devout Nihangs for the purpose of establishing themselves as ‘gurus’ in the West amongst the unsuspecting Europeans. From this position of authority they would then be able to fully exploit and (mis)lead the trusting flock, misappropriating any funds received for their personal gain and generally establish themselves to pursue their dubious agendas of self aggrandisement.

It would appear that they see me as an obstacle in the pursuit of their strategy, because the history, philosophy and traditions I present through my books, websites and SV akharas help empower innocent people to see through such shallow characters and protect themselves from their despicable behaviour.

Rab rakha."

I bet he is lying.Never trust a guy like him.

[ThunderousDominator]

It is alleged that one of their underlying goals is to perpetrate what a wise old man once called 'salvation fraud', i.e. they wish to promote themselves as devout Nihangs for the purpose of establishing themselves as 'gurus' in the West amongst the unsuspecting Europeans. From this position of authority they would then be able to fully exploit and (mis)lead the trusting flock, misappropriating any funds received for their personal gain and generally establish themselves to pursue their dubious agendas of self aggrandisement.

isnt that the exact same thing he does

[AvnitK]

the things niddar does and teaches have all been proven to be false, and mainly horrifying as how far he has come by doing them, no matter what he says there is no way the panth can take him back after excommunicating him.

[Lion of Punjab]

why even give this clown time/publicity on here ??

[Into the Light]

i've listen to his koorh parchar and it's just laughable but you'd be surprised how many ppl will be influenced with what he says...why? Because he has the roop of a Gursikh. I met afew individuals that went to his talks in London at the Golden Temple exhibition...they left very confused and felt that clearly Sikhs are Hindu's.

They presented his points to a Gursikh i know and he ripped each point of Niddars to shreads.

Point being, he looks like an Amritdhari and new comers will beleive him, hence why it's vital correct parchar is done...to allow him to go unchallenged will be more dangerous in the long run. Things left unchallenged will bite you back in the long run.

[dalsingh101]

Normally i give topics like these a wide berth, but I feel sharing some thoughts today isn't a bad idea.

Let me start by saying I don't believe Sikhs are part of what has come to be known as 'Hinduism' today. So if Niddar is of this opinion, I don't share it with him.

That being said, I DO think that Niddar has (perhaps inadvertently?) highlighted some important things that many Sikhs seem to prefer to cowardly avoid facing.

Regulars here know that I am quite interested in Sikh historiography and the effects of colonialism on Sikhs/Sikh thought, I've posted a few pieces/translations on this in the past. In this context what Niddar does (again perhaps unintentionally?) is to highlight the big difference in Sikh worldview prior to and after the infamous 'annexation' of the Panjab by the British.

Anyone even remotely interested in the truth who has done a bit of research would be able to see that prior to annexation the Sikh worldview/cosmology (whatever you want to call it) appears to be more than a little different to that considered the 'orthodox' view today (represented by the Singh Sabha worldview - by this I mean the social reform movement not todays networks of Gurdwaray with the same name).

It doesn't take a genius to trace the (admittedly subtle) influence of what we can call 'western enlightenment' type thought as well as protestant Christian on subsequent interpretations of Sikhi. My point is that prior to this respected Sikhs themselves seemed prone to interpret things with a more 'Indic' framework. You can clearly see this in all traditional Sikh works like Bhangu's Panth Prakash, Kavi Santokh's Suraj Granth etc.

I sometimes perceive the situation with a pendulum analogy, where colonialism may have swung the pendulum to a western/protestant influenced high, and Niddar types are acting in a reactionary way to this and swinging the pendulum to the other 'Indic' extreme.

As with most things, the real truth probably belongs somewhere in the middle of the two respective perspectives. I feel Sikhs acting like we have absolutely no connections to the beliefs which existed in Panjab prior to Sikhi are as guilty of misrepresentation as those who claim we are Hindus.

What is most sad is that apnay can't see the clear opportunity for debate and learning in all this and turn Niddar (who has his faults) into some pantomime villain. If any apnay 'lose faith' over issues like this, I'd say they were pretty unintelligent or weak minded in the first place.

[Cisco_Singh]

Normally i give topics like these a wide berth, but I feel sharing some thoughts today isn't a bad idea.

Let me start by saying I don't believe Sikhs are part of what has come to be known as 'Hinduism' today. So if Niddar is of this opinion, I don't share it with him.

That being said, I DO think that Niddar has (perhaps inadvertently?) highlighted some important things that many Sikhs seem to prefer to cowardly avoid facing.

Regulars here know that I am quite interested in Sikh historiography and the effects of colonialism on Sikhs/Sikh thought, I've posted a few pieces/translations on this in the past. In this context what Niddar does (again perhaps unintentionally?) is to highlight the big difference in Sikh worldview prior to and after the infamous 'annexation' of the Panjab by the British.

Anyone even remotely interested in the truth who has done a bit of research would be able to see that prior to annexation the Sikh worldview/cosmology (whatever you want to call it) appears to be more than a little different to that considered the 'orthodox' view today (represented by the Singh Sabha worldview - by this I mean the social reform movement not todays networks of Gurdwaray with the same name).

It doesn't take a genius to trace the (admittedly subtle) influence of what we can call 'western enlightenment' type thought as well as protestant Christian on subsequent interpretations of Sikhi. My point is that prior to this respected Sikhs themselves seemed prone to interpret things with a more 'Indic' framework. You can clearly see this in all traditional Sikh works like Bhangu's Panth Prakash, Kavi Santokh's Suraj Granth etc.

I sometimes perceive the situation with a pendulum analogy, where colonialism may have swung the pendulum to a western/protestant influenced high, and Niddar types are acting in a reactionary way to this and swinging the pendulum to the other 'Indic' extreme.

As with most things, the real truth probably belongs somewhere in the middle of the two respective perspectives. I feel Sikhs acting like we have absolutely no connections to the beliefs which existed in Panjab prior to Sikhi are as guilty of misrepresentation as those who claim we are Hindus.

What is most sad is that apnay can't see the clear opportunity for debate and learning in all this and turn Niddar (who has his faults) into some pantomime villain. If any apnay 'lose faith' over issues like this, I'd say they were pretty unintelligent or weak minded in the first place.

Very valid point, you'll find the majority of people generally resort to slandering or throwing insults at Niddar Singh instead of addressing issues with knowledge and intellect. Surely if he is such a "clown" as some people claim it should be very easy to intelligently disprove what he is teaching if it false, or expose the shortcomings..

So why do you not take thisn route instead of resorting to slander ??? Now if the excommunucation letter is a fake..then it's a pretty embarrasing and low level tom drop mto...it basically proves that the people involved have no intellect or educational capibility to bring forward factual arguments so they resort to forgery..

People generally have tunnel vision...they refuse or are not willing to seek the truth beyond their own "tunnel visioned" image of Sikh practices even though there is significant evidence to suggest the accepted main stream Sikhi we see today was NOT the same as what existed prior to the British/Western influences and the Singh Sabha movement.

[Singh559]

While I agree we shouldn't baselessly slander, someone like Niddar doesn't like having open discussions or even acknowledge another opinion, it's either his way or the highway and the rest of us are protestant christian influenced non-Sikhs.

I'm sure if he had allowed an open discussion, Sikhs would have come and talked to him. He condones the use of alcohol, drugs, bibian cutting their hair and like santa singh in the 80s (prior to accepting maafi) says that Sikhs are a hindu kaum.

I do agree that the truth probably does lie somewhere in the middle of the two opposing sides, but at the same time I believe niddar is much more dangerous than the other side.

[taran0]

basically the letter is not a fake - I have confirmed with Baba Joginder Singh when he was in the UK few weeks ago, Giani Kirpal Singh of Stratford Road Gurdwara Sparkhill (a chardi klaa HariaVela Nihang) phoned Baba Nihal Singh ji and he confirmed that he signed the letter and added that he was disappointed that the letter wasn't issued earlier. Mohan Singh of the Sikh Awareness Society also phoned Baba Harnam Singh Of Damdami Taksal and Sant Samaaj and he confirmed that yes I did sign this letter, which just leaves two we have left to confirm.

In light of the above mentioned letter and publicity of nefarious teachings on his website, Last Monday 29th October Nidar's Classes at Somerset Road Gurdwara were immediately cancelled by the Gurdwara Committee. Nidar threw a hissy fit and refused to leave, he tried to bully the Committee, but they were old school Solid Babey who were not afraid and went into his class and informed everyone that this is the last class that will take place, please do not return for the class last week.

Nidar Singh in defiance said that he would defy the committees wishes and return with 30 of his students to force his way into the Gurdwara and hold his class, the Old School Babey said "if you going to come then you better be ready for us"

I commend the Somerset Road Gurdwara committee as they did not know anything about this Nidar Singh and as soon as they found out they took action. So to support the Gurdwara comittee a group of like minded Peaceful Sikhs will be convening on Somerset Road Gurdwara on Monday 5th November at 7pm to show our support for the Gurdwara and make sure that the Gurdwara Comittee are not bullied or pushed around for doing their duty as Gurdwara Sevadars and protecting the sangat.

We are requesting all the sangat to turn up to the Gurdwara and let us show our support to the Gurdwara and in peaceful manner protest against the snatan Hindu-Sikh cult which is insulting to both Sikhs and Hindus. If he does come he will be trespassing and will be dealt with.

The sangat not allow Nidar into our Gurdwaras. If Nidar does turn up he will be politely and peacefully removed.

Gur Bar akaaal! Sat Sree Akaal

[lsingh]

The attacks on Singh Sabha movement by these new Indian Nihangs is deeply offensive. The Singh Sabha got rid of the idol worshipping, immoral Brahmin Mahants thats why the new Indian Nihangs dislike the Singh Sabha. The New Indian Nihangs oppose the Sikh Freedom movement and some have openly sided with the enemies of the Sikhs as we all know. The New Indian Nihangs are nothin g like the Nihangs of old who fought in the defence of the Sikhs and the Sikh nation. As every one keeps asking where were the New Indian Nihnags when the massacre of Sikhs was taking place across India, and still what are they doing to help the victims?