Scottish independence movement

[West London Singh]

I'd like to dispute your assertion that I have 'a very childlike knowledge of the situation.' I am actually quite well informed.

Whether Alex Salmond's need to reduce the voting age to 16 is a clever move, will only be proven once he has won the referendum - which he will not.

An independent Scotland won't even have its own currency and will rely on the British Pound - and so the London-based bank of England will set interest rates in Scotland but not be answerable to the Scottish government - what kind of independence is that??

So let me see, an independent Punjab's trade routes will rely on Pakistan to the west and India to the east. So when there is a border dispute (which there will inevitable be) with either of these two countries, we'll see those routes disrupted or cut off.

let me just put another few questions to you:

1) What will the independent Punjab's energy policy be? it has no energy resources of its own except one dam and a lot of cow dung

2) What will the independent Punjab's currency be? a Punjabi rupee?? a really powerful currency!!

Where do most of the countries around us get their energy from ? I can only heat my home because of gas that comes from a pipe just to north of Punjab (russia) all the way to England. I can only switch my lights on at home because of electricity generated in France by French companies. Looks like you have a very busy letter writing day ahead of you tomorrow. Not only are you going to be asking the United Nations to dismantle the dozen or so landlocked countries the same size as Punjab you#re also gonna ask for the destruction of 75% of the worlds nations that get their energy from elsewhere.

So....lets recap.....so far, hsisingh, you've argued that 75% of the earth's nations must not and can not exist.

So what of the remaining 25% ? Well.....you then go on to claim that the currency of a nation that can't feed its children or school its children, or even save the lives of its children (India) is the benchmark of al that is right. Strange logic indeed, clouded, no doubt, with an irrational and rather scary love of mother India, but....more importantly, you forget that pretty much every nation on earth had to start somewhere.....usually from nowhere.

So...lets recap. Even of the 25% of the world's nations who's existence you didn't rubbish , only a couple fall within your very strict, and even more mental, criteria. Most notably India.

Lets just all be thankfull that you haven't been around through the ages my friend. Had you been, its pretty clear that you would have found an excuse for no country to ever come about....ever. (except India of course) :biggrin2:

[Singh559]

I don't know about you guys, but I see a cerebral and critical discussion as a big positive as that's something that will be productive and practical in the long run.

Cross examination and acknowledging another side is good which is why I appreciate DalSingh101's posts a lot because he does have experience and has a good perspective. I do, however, believe we can (if we all give up our egos) come together and work on such things to empower ourselves for the future.

Mistakes were made and we continue to make them, but I do think the newer generation is a bit more intelligent than the uncles who know nothing more than shouting speeches without any real goal.

What screws up these discussions? Personal attacks and getting personal. Eat your ego and just play it safe.

[TheFancyBanana]

sikhs in other countries are quite well off, maybe they could support the country. punjab produces a lot of food, which could be sold to other countries. some natural resources such as limestone, petroleum and sodium can be found. Also, tourists might go visit the darbar sahib, right now many people don't know about it.

But, how would new jobs be created here, we need educated people in Punjab, maybe then call centres and other buisnesses would set up in punjab.

[dalsingh101]

sikhs in other countries are quite well off, maybe they could support the country. punjab produces a lot of food, which could be sold to other countries. some natural resources such as limestone, petroleum and sodium can be found. Also, tourists might go visit the darbar sahib, right now many people don't know about it.

But, how would new jobs be created here, we need educated people in Punjab, maybe then call centres and other buisnesses would set up in punjab.

Panjabis need a complete attitude change, that's what we need. Towards each other, towards the world.

Right now we are some materialistic, backstabbing, hungry, show off, unsophisticated pendus.

Education is only going to help if it gives us a more healthy, progressive mindset, not if it just some strategy to get better jobs and still act like small minded, backwards yokels.

[ThunderousDominator]

An independent Punjab would be the same size as Nepal in terms of population and (like Nepal) would be landlocked. Which manufacturing company is going to set up in the Punjab to provide jobs to the young people? How will the state deal with defence, access to ports.

Austria,Belerus,Czech Republic,Hungary,Liechtenstien,Luxembourg,Macedonia,Switzerland are all landlocked countries

It is just nonsense.....anyone who spends any time looking into the real consequences of an independent Punjab would dismiss the idea..

do you know what will happen to all of pujabs ground water in 10-15 years if punjab doesnt get control over its own river waters soon

its just nonsense anyone who spends any time looking into the real consewuences of punjab staying with india will dismiss the idea

[dalsingh101]

Austria,Belerus,Czech Republic,Hungary,Liechtenstien,Luxembourg,Macedonia,Switzerland are all landlocked countries

Okay, but don't for one second ignore the stark differences between these places and a theoretical K'stan. Generally Europeans seemed to have learned not to squabble militarily since Hitler's failed project. Now generally they just beeach with each other through the EU. Acknowledge the big differences with our neck of the wood, with infinitely more 'hot blooded' militant types like Panjabi sullay and Pathans and what not. There is infinitely most hostility on our patch than these places, face up to this.

It's not just about being landlocked but also about the environment we find ourselves in. Lumpen sections of the Sikh peasantry seems to think that we can stick our heads up Pakistan's backside (like they previously did with the British) as some sort of solution, which is ridiculous. Don't be in denial about it, we aren't in what would be considered a 'stable region' by any stretch of the imagination. And Paks ARE NOT our friends despite a55 yaari projections by some of our more dense brothers.

do you know what will happen to all of pujabs ground water in 10-15 years if punjab doesnt get control over its own river waters soon

its just nonsense anyone who spends any time looking into the real consewuences of punjab staying with india will dismiss the idea

Screw large scale agriculture. Even if it wasn't water control, climate change has a good chance of decimating the farming sector.

Sod farming, we need more modern, robust economies, instead of those that create obnoxious pendus that tear Panjab apart with bewakoof illusions of grandeur. Get into the 21st century for God's sake!

If India does come up in economic terms (which is not an unrealistic prospect, like it or not), it will be able to decrease its reliance on Panjab for food like the west which can ship/fly what they need from abroad. So look at the long picture. We can't rely on farming forever.

[VanHelsingh]

The number one priority must be to extricate ourselves (as in Panjab) from the grip of the Indian machine. The problem is they just don't want to let us go!

[DailyMail]

"Right now we are some materialistic, backstabbing, hungry, show off, unsophisticated pendus."

Precisely. Nearly everyone I know in West London fits into the above classfication.

[hsisingh]

Austria,Belerus,Czech Republic,Hungary,Liechtenstien,Luxembourg,Macedonia,Switzerland are all landlocked countries

do you know what will happen to all of pujabs ground water in 10-15 years if punjab doesnt get control over its own river waters soon

its just nonsense anyone who spends any time looking into the real consewuences of punjab staying with india will dismiss the idea

So let's start with you list of countries:

Austria - annexed by Germany in 1939.

Belerus - invaded by Russia after the 2nd World War and bought into the Soviet Union - now an authoritarian dictatorship beholden to its neighbour: Russia

Czech Republic - invaded by Hitler in 1939; invaded by Russia after the Second World War. Split in too in the ealry 1990s

Hungary - invaded by Russia after the Second World War. Part of EU, but an increasingly authoritarian government

Liechtenstien - doesn't count - is basically the size of a small city and run by a king - no resources at all, so dependent on being a tax haven

Luxembourg - doesn't count - is basically the size of a city and has no resources at all, so dependent on being a tax haven

Macedonia - invaded by Russia after the Second World War. absorbed into Yugoslavia and then Split off in the early 1990s. Not at peace with its neighbours

Switzerland - highly educated and advanced society (not like the Punjab); offshore tax haven for the rich, surrounded by stable EU countries (France, Germany, Italy)

..so tell me again, how being a landlocked country is easy and stable???

[West London Singh]

So let's start with you list of countries:

Austria - annexed by Germany in 1939.

Belerus - invaded by Russia after the 2nd World War and bought into the Soviet Union - now an authoritarian dictatorship beholden to its neighbour: Russia

Czech Republic - invaded by Hitler in 1939; invaded by Russia after the Second World War. Split in too in the ealry 1990s

Hungary - invaded by Russia after the Second World War. Part of EU, but an increasingly authoritarian government

Liechtenstien - doesn't count - is basically the size of a small city and run by a king - no resources at all, so dependent on being a tax haven

Luxembourg - doesn't count - is basically the size of a city and has no resources at all, so dependent on being a tax haven

Macedonia - invaded by Russia after the Second World War. absorbed into Yugoslavia and then Split off in the early 1990s. Not at peace with its neighbours

Switzerland - highly educated and advanced society (not like the Punjab); offshore tax haven for the rich, surrounded by stable EU countries (France, Germany, Italy)

..so tell me again, how being a landlocked country is easy and stable???

With the exception of Iran and Ethiopia, pretty much every nation on earth has at some point been invaded by a foreign power, annexed, ruled by a foreign power etc. Like we discussed in the last message, you want the UN to dismantle every nation on earth (except India). So your still selling us that same dead horse hsisingh. You're still desperately trying to find justification for dismissing the idea of freedom. You don't care what the reason is....you just need a reason. Things have gotten desperate. You're now using the excuse of being invaded by foreign powers whilst simultaneously praising the existence of the one nation on earth that has perhaps been invaded the most, annexed the most and seen the least peace : Your beloved India.

Please carry on hsisingh. In your last 3 posts you have, unwittingly, given us reason after reason as to why India should not exist. :biggrin2: