Sikh girls marrying out of religion

[HSD2]

in a metaphorical sense.....

[Guest Alexendria Morgan]

Let me paint a pretty picture of your culture. Your parents are kicked out of the house they worked hard for. You stick your parents in senior homes where the nurse don't care for one second and you only look at how much it will cost more to keep these old bags around for few more years. Many of your parents are out on the streets begging for a hot meal. They are on drugs due to all the stress they face for when their so called loving children kicked them out. Your parents took care of you for 18 plus years and when it comes to repay that debt, they are on the streets. Pension money they can't survive on so either they sell the house or sell it to one of you who makes them into slaves. They ask for money from you and you deny them funds. Don't remember for one second that they spent their life savings on ungrateful children. Any title they own, you want as some how you earned it sitting around on their couch making out with different guys while they are in the house. Among siblings the fight continues for years who should take care of the parents in the courts. And the only reason one of you step up to the plate is because they have a lot of funds collected over the years of making an honest living. So their goes their money in court battles for their money among siblings.

So any Sikh or Punjabi parents will not want an ungrateful girl in the house. Thanks to your culture many Punjabi women have adopted it as the truth.

fyi I do everything myself for household chores. Follow the instuctions of the Gurus to respect and take care of parents and wife parents. If you have a problem being a slave, then re-think why you are becoming a Sikh. Leave your immoral culture at the door. We have generations of generations who sacrifice themselves for respect and giving back debts to elders. While your culture has many generations of parents hanging on to the last thread of money before their children fight over who will pay the bill for their funeral.

you know what dear, it seems I am replying to a kid who's age is not more than 10 years ..I said what the !!! what the !!!! Where I am talking about Religious matter...The culture is so dear to you..calm down.. Every community has good and bad people. In fact in both cases according to religion as well as according to culture..But I have to do nothing with the culture of countries..

What do you know about our cultures? should I laugh or should I pity for you??? Come and see The culture you are talking about ..how most of the sikh people have accepted the same here. We have our own faults and.Develop your brain try to understand others what are they saying..What I do write you don't reply according to the that concerned matter .. punjabi or sikh women? obviously you will get it from them. I say sikh guys are much better than them ..but I don't want to be judgmental. Please try to understand my Answer first and then reply.. where am I talking about the sikhism and sikh guys you are keep on barking about cultures and traditions.

[isingh1699]

My friend you compare Atheism to Islam and what have you based this conclusion on?

Atheism is a far better philosophy than Muhammadanism - the ideology of a pedophile and slaveowner.

Yes, I'm an Atheist, I was a Sikh once and an amrithdhairi,

Good on u bro. Since u had no understanding of Sikhi it's good that u opted out of following it for hollow reasons u didn't understand.

I saw no difference in the Sikh religion and all other main stream religions.

There's a pretty big difference. Every other religion (apart from Sikhi) states that only its followers gain entry into heaven, paradise or freedom.

Sikhi however states that only positive and good actions bring a devotee closer to God - not the so-called community an adherent was born in.

The Sikhs I have spoken to are all deluded in this thought that we differ from all main stream religions but never have I been given a strong answer to challenge my opinion.

Look at it like this, for a Muslim its automatic that an Atheist like you will burn in Hell whereas pedophiles are rewarded in paradise.

Sikhi is clear that an atheist Doc who saves innocent lives on a daily basis is a better + more worthy human being (in God's judgement) than ordinary Sikhs like me.

It’s for more easier for me to make an comparison between Islam and Sikh religion and straight away I can read through some of these posts, many of you do sound like Islamic fundamentalists:

· The need for conversion > Good actions by individuals are more important than conversion but it is undeniable that without a critical mass of numbers Sikhs will be unable to meaningfully help oppressed and suffering millions throughout the World. To serve billions of innocents we need hundred of millions of Sikhs to do that. It's not about converting people for the sake of it or to gain reward but it's about being able to better serve humanity through greater numbers.

· You cannot marry outside of your religion > Sikhs marry outside of their religion to a greater percentage than all other major religions out there. Therefore, it is important that children of such mixed marriages are raised Sikh (unless we want pedophile supporters, caste system supporters, nazi racists and big business etc to control the world cruelly forever)

· The Sikh temples need to enforce a stronger policy on Sikh marrying Sikhs > Yes Sikhs need to know why it's important that their spouse agrees with Sikh values in which men and women are equal, in which domestic violence is not allowed (as in the Quran and Bible and books of Hinduism) and all humanity is equal and that children are raised Sikh in order that there be a bigger population to serve humanity in the future.

Are Sikhs that scared about the religion becoming extinct that you require the following to keep it alive.

Sikhi will never become extinct. The Truth can never die. But yes it is up to us how strong the flame of truth burns or are we content to let it flicker weakly as currently

Majority of the youth followers joining the religion are heavily influenced by the Sikh political issues in the late 70’s and 80’s.

So opposing injustice which has not been delivered in over 3 decades is somehow wrong? Simon Wiesenthal must have been a criminal in your eyes too, then?

The hatred fuels your religion, shocking, same as Islam.

Seeking justice for the innocent victims of state terrorism is equal to hatred in your eyes?

Hatred for kaffirs is in the Quran openly. The Guru Granth Sahib is a book of peace and praise of God. It's a shame you see Sikhi and Islam as the same.

Suddenly the need for the religion to be recognised as separate ideology from all Indian faiths,

So the Buddhists and Jains are similarly evil like the Sikh victims of state terrorism for wishing to be recognised as the distinct non-Hindu faiths they are?

Would you be happy as an atheist, to be forced to get married by delcaring yourself as a Christian or Muslim or Satanist or Nazi?

sounds allot like how Islam wants to separate its roots from all Abrahamic religions.

I don't see how Islam can ever manage that given that Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus as stated in the Quran

The similarities are very visible.

Yes Sikhi is a religion of peace, love and serving humanity.

Islam is proud of openly supporting pedophilia, slavery and hatred of non-Muslims. Not much similarity, after all, huh?

Is it not few years back Akaal Thakat, the political body of the Sikhs announced, you cannot be called a Sikh until you have become an amrtihdhari Sikh.

The Guru Granth Sahib does not define a Sikh as so. Anyone that accepts Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their Guru is made welcome in the House of God (Gurdwara).

Straight away the Sikh religion has decreased it’s numbers of its followers.

Agreed that the RSS and Congress haters of Sikhs succeeded in technically decreasing the number of Sikh adherents through their allies in Sikh bana.

But the enemies of the Sikh Panth who wish to decrease its number of followers can't delete the belief in Sikhi from the heart of non-Amritdhari Sikhs.

As Sikhs you allow a religious political body to run the religion, which is located in a completely different country and cultural differences are never taken into consideration, damn this sound allot like Catholicism.

Do you want to re-site the Akal Takht to Australia? Should the Senate be re-sited to India?

Sikhs have immense cultural differences amongst us but the Truth of equality, justice and charitable service applies to all humanity.

At least in Catholicism they have strong number of followers.

Chrsitianity and Islam got their followers mainly through slavery, colonialism and genocide, so what it there to be proud of in that?

The acceptance of non Asian Sikhs is becoming an issue regarding mainstream Sikhs e.g. 3ho Sikhs.

There is no problem with non-Punjabi Sikhs. The more the better. If 3HO go against Gurmat, is it a crime to point that out or oppose that?

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=18050

Similarity again with Islam, the ongoing conflict between Shia, Sunnis and Sufis. May not be on that scale but it’s understandable as the Sikh religion is not as large.

All religions have different schools of thought within them. Would you rather that all were automatants following only one communist vision decided by you with no argument?

People from India (Hindu) who I have spoken to, acknowledge Sikh religion is different,

Good.

it’s a branch of Islam

You can't even bring forward 5 Hindu's to openly state that Sikhi is a branch of Islam. Do that and I'll send u 50 bucks.

and the core philosophy is more Islam then Hindhu.

The core and only philosophy of Sikhi is Truth.

It's only in your mind that you consider Sikhi to be more Islam and Hindu (when in fact Sikhi exposes both larger religions as false).

Now you tell me how is that so?

Because certain non-Sikh individuals like yourself simply don't get it.

Sikhs are suppose to be distinct, well non Sikhs don’t see that distinction.

Who cares what non-Sikhs think of us? The Sikh Panth knows what it is and what it stands for - Sarbat Da Bhala (the welfare of all humanity)

Majority of the studies. Which are conducted within India regarding religion, the Sikh religion is acknowledged as Abrahamic religion then Dharmaic.

Please educate me which studies say that Sikhi accepts a slaveowner like Abraham?

Well how has that suddenly changed, maybe to do with the internal misunderstandings within the religion.

Sikhs can be wrong in their individual lives but Sikhi isn't wrong as a truthful philosophy itself.

After independence of India and Pakistan, main stream Sikhs have continued to push Sikhs out of the religion because they viewed the teachings differently to the main stream and the number of Sikhs got smaller. Sikhs seem to have this trend of pushing its followers out.

Agreed that the RSS+Congress and their allies in bana have suceeded in making the Sikh population smaller.

But every time in history the Sikh population has fallen (temporarily) it always resurges longer term.

Atheism has allot of flavours, which is fantastic.

So do all religions. Choice of interpretation is not always a bad thing.

Why would someone bore themselves with eating the same food every day.

Sikhi isn't for our entertainment from boredom.

It's about belief in one God with service to humanity to create a better World for innocent children of all faiths to grow up in.

Looking at the Sikhs religion through history, there were many flavours many Philosophies maybe that was the reason why I was attracted to it,

There still are. Unity in Diversity is a strength when it is coupled with brotherhood and standing shoulder to shoulder in times of adversity.

But, as a Sikh you only can go so far before the holes in the religion start to appear and when you question, you are told to be silent and accept it.

There are no holes in Sikhi. Go ahead and question Sikhi to your heart's content.

Sikhi has all the answers even if ordinary Sikhs like myself perhaps don't (though we can try for you).

As a Human being it’s in my nature to evolve, learn and question.

Sikhs are perpetual "seekers" of knowledge. That's what defines a Sikh. We are not meant to have blind faith and hold it without question or understanding.

Why would I need to follow something that was written 500 years ago.

Truth is eternal. It wasn't conceived 500 years ago. But maybe you just feel better following something you started believing in your mind 5 hours ago.

It's your democratic choice to follow in the atheist footsteps of such famous Atheist figures like Jawaharlal Nehru, Stalin and Adolf Hitler.

But even as an atheist, you should see that Sikhi is the most benign faith for you as an atheist to support from outside as well as for global society. An Islamic world will be far worse for you so I encourage you that even if you stick to the atheism that entertains you and keeps you from getting bored then at least support Sikh charitable initiatives which make the world a better place such as

www.khalsaaid.org

[DalbirSingh]

Ksingh5 seems to talking about wacky RSS hindu contradictory beliefs where Sikhs are sometimes a branch of hindus who need to go back to hinduism or foreigners posing as hindus but actually being terrorist muslims. This is all nonsense.

Ksingh5 if you are an atheist and think we are wasting our time with fairy tales and fables why bother telling us we are false and wasting our time?

[kullykhalsa]

My friend you compare Atheism to Islam and what have you based this conclusion on?

Yes, I'm an Atheist, I was a Sikh once and an amrithdhairi, I saw no difference in the Sikh religion and all other main stream religions. The Sikhs I have spoken to are all deluded in this thought that we differ from all main stream religions but never have I been given a strong answer to challenge my opinion. It’s for more easier for me to make an comparison between Islam and Sikh religion and straight away I can read through some of these posts, many of you do sound like Islamic fundamentalists:

Ksingh its quite harsh to say many of us sound like islamic fundamentalist, i suggest you read more on both religions to be aware of the differences

· The need for conversion

we do NOT CONVERT, we never ask people to convert or want them to convert unless its from their own heart, so incorrect if you can find any shabad or any saying which says please do show us, please no more opinions not based on fact

· You cannot marry outside of your religion

Sikhi is a way of life and diluting that way of life means your sikhi becomes weaker, you can choose to marry outside your religion but it will dilute your sikhi and why would u want to do that? i want to be able to share kirtan/nitnem etc with my wife. but apparently according to you that is backward?

· The Sikh temples need to enforce a stronger policy on Sikh marrying Sikhs

Yes sikhi says that sikhs should marry sikhs, if im a sikh and i love a christain what exactly do i love about her? is the love a veil for lust? do i love her personality, what about her habits her beliefs i can agree with someones beliefs but doesnt mean i will practice them, and when you have children will they be raised as sikhs or christians

Are Sikhs that scared about the religion becoming extinct that you require the following to keep it alive.

Majority of the youth followers joining the religion are heavily influenced by the Sikh political issues in the late 70’s and 80’s. The hatred fuels your religion, shocking, same as Islam.

Suddenly the need for the religion to be recognised as separate ideology from all Indian faiths, sounds allot like how Islam wants to separate its roots from all Abrahamic religions. The similarities are very visible. Is it not few years back Akaal Thakat, the political body of the Sikhs announced, you cannot be called a Sikh until you have become an amrtihdhari Sikh. Straight away the Sikh religion has decreased it’s numbers of its followers.

Political issues are playing a stronger part just because we are becoming more aware of them, to you it feels political to the rest its our mothers sisters and brothers who were murdered and raped by a govt sworn to protect us. again like most atheist you do not feel a bond to the next person of love or hate instead your life is probably pretty insignificant. A sikh is a learner hence anyone that learns is a sikh, the SGPC may release statements etc but it is your beliefs that count!

As Sikhs you allow a religious political body to run the religion, which is located in a completely different country and cultural differences are never taken into consideration, damn this sound allot like Catholicism. At least in Catholicism they have strong number of followers.

The acceptance of non Asian Sikhs is becoming an issue regarding mainstream Sikhs e.g. 3ho Sikhs. Similarity again with Islam, the ongoing conflict between Shia, Sunnis and Sufis. May not be on that scale but it’s understandable as the Sikh religion is not as large.

In the most part non asian sikhs are accepted, ive never been to a gurdwara where i see white sikhs black sikhs treated differently! cultural differences do not matter to sikhs we are the same in UK/Canada/India whats right is right and that crosses more than countries borders

People from India (Hindu) who I have spoken to, acknowledge Sikh religion is different, it’s a branch of Islam and the core philosophy is more Islam then Hindhu. Now you tell me how is that so? Sikhs are suppose to be distinct, well non Sikhs don’t see that distinction. Majority of the studies. Which are conducted within India regarding religion, the Sikh religion is acknowledged as Abrahamic religion then Dharmaic. Well how has that suddenly changed, maybe to do with the internal misunderstandings within the religion.

Non sikhs like yourself dont see the distrinction because u speak to hindus and muslims about sikhi and then wonder why you dont know the correct answers. if i was going to a photography course i wouldnt speak to a florist about it? speak to knowledgeable sikhs and do your OWN research instead of spouting b/s you heard from some brahmin

After independence of India and Pakistan, main stream Sikhs have continued to push Sikhs out of the religion because they viewed the teachings differently to the main stream and the number of Sikhs got smaller. Sikhs seem to have this trend of pushing its followers out.

This is probably the only point i agree with you on the general division of sikhs by jathebandis and different teachings which dont really matter

Atheism has allot of flavours, which is fantastic. Why would someone bore themselves with eating the same food every day. Looking at the Sikhs religion through history, there were many flavours many Philosophies maybe that was the reason why I was attracted to it, But, as a Sikh you only can go so far before the holes in the religion start to appear and when you question, you are told to be silent and accept it. As a Human being it’s in my nature to evolve, learn and question.

OH why didnt you say you were attracted to sikhi so many years ago! lol you really are a child arent you but im glad your asking questions because then we can explain to you. honestly a lot of what you mention is not profound its more like GCSE RE. what holes? please explain? please evolve but realise you have the answer in front of you, realise that you havent even scratched the surface of sikhi you probably dont know punjabi in my opinion there is no chance you know gurmukhi or enough of the saakhiya, i suggest you start talking and hanging with sangat that are happy to answer your questions just as long as you dont ask them as you have done here, with a heart full of ego and pride that you think your better and have figured it out sikhi much brighter people than you have tried and failed to truly understand sikhism

Why would I need to follow something that was written 500 years ago.

the fact is why do people still read Homers Odyysey, why do they still listen to Einsteins theorys, or Platos sayings or Sun Tzus art of war, because some things are beyond the time they were written in some things last till the end of times, and i can assure you that me and you are insignificant specks on this great journey, myself and fellow sikhs do not follow "something that was written 500 years ago (btw if you ahd studied sikhi you would know to show some respect)" we follow a way of life with our guru as our leading light!