~ Seminar on Nirmale, Sevapanthis and Udasi Sikh Order/Samparda ~

[N30S1NGH]

For the record, I never doubted NIrmalas created by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

What I'm doubting is the way some people make up and twist history according to their own agenda without actually referring to historical pieces.

Make up and twist history? Like what?

especially when you got a bunch of uneducated people making lectures about what our history is not.

Like who?

[chatanga]

These evil-hearted ones became rebellious; they carry loads of sin on their backs.

These lines are from Gurbani. Your Guru is saying that Sri Chand was evil hearted and rebellious. Guru ji says that Sri Chand carried loads of sins on his back.

bro, the translation of that line is wrong. evil-hearted is not mentioned.

[chatanga]

I don't believe in the Nirmala story. Guru Sahib couldn't find ANY Pandit that would teach his Sikhs Sanskrit, because they were from the low castes? Guru Sahib had enough Khatri and Brahman Sikh converts; certainly more than 5. Why didn't the Pandit teach them? None of the Gurus, starting with Guru Nanak dev ji, went to Kashi to learn Vedic scripture. Yet, they were still Guru. That is because gurbani contains all the knowledge of the Vedas and the other Hindu scriptures, plus more. So, I don't see the need to study Hindu scriptures if you are a Sikh. Your Guru already has all the knowledge.

Thats comepletly up to you, but you should know that there an exalted place of learning called Guru Ki Kashi. Why would Guru Ji Himslef give that name of Kashi?

Guru Gobind Singh ji was pleased with Bhai Khanaiya, but Guru Maharaj sent him away to do his own thing. Whereas other Singhs died fighting for their Guru. Bhai Khanaiya left the family. Anyone is free to leave, that is why Guru Sahib gave him his blessing, but the point is that he left.

No bhaji, Guru Ji gave Bhai Ghaniya ointment to use on the injured soldiers, He certainly did not leave Bhai Sahib to "do his own thing". Nor did Bhai Sahib leave.

Baba Budha ji wasn't made guru either. Sri Chand started living the life of an ascetic. This is a direct contradiction to Guru Nanak's direction to live the life of a householder.

It is no contradiction. Guru ji has said Grahasht Dharaam is the highest Dharam, not the ONLY Dharam. There are so many Bihangams in the panth, you think that these people contradicted Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

I have a problem when these groups call themselves Sikhs, because they don't follow the Sikhi prescribed by our Gurus. Yet they still wear bana and do Prakash of Adi Granth. This leads to confusion amongst people as to who Sikhs are and what they believe in. It plays into the hands of Brahmanical elements that having been sore over the fact that Sikhs wised up and slipped away from their clutches.

Theres no confusion on our part Bhaji, you just need to read more.

[Sherdil]

bro, the translation of that line is wrong. evil-hearted is not mentioned.

I don't think so bro. The phrase used is "Dil Kothai". I looked it up on SriGranth.com, and checked with other sites too.

If it is wrong, then you should let them all know.

[Sherdil]

Thats comepletly up to you, but you should know that there an exalted place of learning called Guru Ki Kashi. Why would Guru Ji Himslef give that name of Kashi?

No bhaji, Guru Ji gave Bhai Ghaniya ointment to use on the injured soldiers, He certainly did not leave Bhai Sahib to "do his own thing". Nor did Bhai Sahib leave.

It is no contradiction. Guru ji has said Grahasht Dharaam is the highest Dharam, not the ONLY Dharam. There are so many Bihangams in the panth, you think that these people contradicted Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

Theres no confusion on our part Bhaji, you just need to read more.

You are referring to Guru Ki Kashi at Damdama Sahib, right? It was established by Guru Gobind Singh ji, to teach his Sikhs Gurmukhi, so they would be able to read Guru Granth Sahib. Nothing to do with Sanskrit or the Vedas.

If Bhai Sahib didn't leave, then where did this sevapanthi sect come from? He was given shastar by Guru Gobind Singh ji, but he said that the shastar will only be for his enemy to use. Meaning, he didn't want to kill anyone. So Guru ji blessed him and told him to go back to his dharmsala and continue his work.

Guru ji has instructed his Sikhs to be householders. End of story. Now, if someone does not want to be a householder, then fine. However, we should make no mistake that they are disobeying their Guru.

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

The most constant literature of Gurmat has come from the Nirmal Panth, read Dr Trilochan Singh book " The turban and the sword of the Sikhs".

Paaji I used to love that book like crazy. However I was recently asked by a friend who is switching their spiritual journey from Christianity over to the Guru Sahibs panth to recommend a good book for them to read about Sikhi etc. so I enthusiastically dug out the above mentioned book by Dr Trilochan Singh to give to her. For some strange reason before handing it over, I felt compelled to give it a quick scan and just flicked through the pages. I landed on page 133, so just gave the page a once over to see if I could rekindle some thoughts from being a teen reading this book!!! Anyway, if you have a copy of this book, give page 133 a look and then feel free to pm me with your thoughts.

[chatanga]

dil kothai means impure hearts, not evil- hearts.