Sikhi Camps

[chatanga]

Are SIkhi camps achieving anything for youngsters?

I have been looking in on sikhi camps for young kids for a while now, and feel that for the cost of the camp, the intensity, and duration of the camps, be they one day, 2 day or 3 day, are not achieving much, beyond those days.

If you were to ask a camper, 1 week/1 month after the camp, what they learnt, what do you think the answer would be?

Is this still a way to go, or should we look at alternative methods of teaching gurmat?

thoughts?

[Into the Light]

if we look at the way puratan Gurdwara's were built ie hazoor sahib or harmandir sahib...they were always kept small in size. The sole reason appears to be is that is small buildings can only host small numbers, resulting in teachings being propagated on a personal level & Guru Jee and puratan Sikhs knew this. i feel it's very important the Gurmat classes are taught in small numbers (eg 25 max) on a regular basis (once a week) where the youth parcharak can build a bond with the kids.

in my experience, firstly the teacher needs to show that we're human...as stupid as it sounds but most kids think Gursikhs are like robots who can't have a laugh. Next a teacher must prove themselves of being worthy of respect, by knowing what they're talking about and finally the teachers has to let the kids into theirs life by sharing their life experiences at work, interfaith events!

In my experiences kids are more engaged when you talk about your life and interactions and will listen attentively. Whereas they will zone in and out when you talk about Sikh itihas. So it's for each teacher to relate sakhi's of our Guru Sahibs and make them relevant today...make it relevant to their lives! As offensive as this may sound but kids don't care too much about 500yrs ago and that's the truth. But a good teacher has the ability of making 500yrs ago sound very important, provided they link itihas with how it's relevant today.

But non of the above accounts for anything if the teacher doesn't have passion in their composure, their voice, their eyes. Kids pick up on these more than what you say. They take on board what you don't say too...it's very interesting.

Don't be judgmental...don't tell them out to live their lives. My approach is simple...connect kids to Gurbani and maharaaj will do the rest.

And finally, don't try to control kids..the moment you do, is the moment you have lost them. You will have to let them make their mistakes but you should create such a relationship that they feel they can always come to you even if they do mess up and you won't judge them. I'm shocked and horrified about what i hear 13/14yrs old get upto today...but we have to start somewhere, it's never too late.

Also teaching needs to be audio, visual & kinesthetic...so don't just talk to them for 1hr. On average kids will only remember 5% of what they heard in a lecture. You need to add more dimensions to teaching to ensure all kids are engaged.

All in all....teaching is hard!

I took my class to an interfaith event and they had to manage a sikh stall, also part of this event there was an activity where each person in a room had 90secs to speak to another person about their faith and then listen to the other persons faith....each person had to speak to everyone in the room. We had older ppl and young kids in one room in rows. This really pushed and challenged the kids to step up as they needed to quickly figure out how to articulate Sikhi in such a small amount of time. I received amazing feedback from the local Bishop and event organisers...we just need to allow kids to step up as we seem to be raising a generation of kids who feel only Brahmgiann's should be allowed to discuss Sikhi at interfaith events or even Gurdwara's.

that's my 2 cents...i'd be interesting is hearing about what others think.

[singh135]

into the light: Amazing post

[N30S1NGH]

Awesome Awesome Awesome post Intolight veer jio..oh boi you smashed it..!!!.. love to get your input in this thread as well:

[ElusiveFighter]

Those propogating Sikhi and those seeking to learn it, need to have a certain mind and skill set. without this, Sikhi Parchaar will always fail.

Gurbilas Paatshaahi Chhevi has a beautiful sakhi where Guru Hargobind Sahib Jis Gursikhs ask him a question along the lines of this discussion (core concept):

Be inspired and let others know what it takes to be a parchaarak and a student:

Taken from Sant Waryam Singh Ji’s Kathaa:

Invocation: True and supreme is God’s Name. Blessed is Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

‘Prostrate salutation and obeisance I make many a time before the omnipotent

Lord, the Possessor of all the powers.

Reach me Thy hand, O Lord and save me from wavering, says Nanak.’

‘After wandering and wandering, O Lord, I have come and entered Thy

sanctuary.

O Master, Nanak’s prayer is:

Attach me to Thy devotional service.’

Refrain: Cast off is d oubt from my mind

O dear, ever since I have had a glimpse of Thee.

‘Lord; to Your shelter have I come, since having a sight of You, cast off is doubt

from my mind.

Without a word have You known my state,

And devotion to Your Name inspired.

Fled is suffering, and in joyful serenity am I absorbed,

As in joy Your laudation I have sung.

By grasping my arm has the Guru succoured his servant

From evil stars and the dark well of Maya (Mammon).

Saith Nanak: The Guru our bonds has snapped

And to the long-separated granted union.’

Holy congregation! loud be thy utterance: ‘True and supreme is God’s

Name’. Getting free from your worldly chores, you have reached the Guru’s

court. If the congregation of the holy and true is attended in the prescribed

manner, it proves to be immense fruitful. Unless we fully understand the

discourse, we are incapable of gaining full advantage of it, though we come

from home leaving our worldly chores for this purpose. For a person of

average intelligence, it is like this. A machine may be having a number of

wires connected with one another with screws and producing a voice. If the

voice comes clearly, as my voice is coming, the listener is benefited fully. But

if one or two wires do not function, there will be confusion, and nothing

will be intelligible. The loudspeaker will not function properly. The hall will

reverberate with the sound, as it is doing now, because everything has to

be done in a proper manner. When something is done fully in the prescribed

manner, the result is full, right and proper. Man can mend it as much as

required. This is not to say that, that is all. Generally, those who come to

attend a holy congregation should have fourteen virtues, and the speaker

too should have fourteen qualities.

In this connection, four Sikhs – Bhai Mansadhar, Bhai Dargah Tali, Bhai

Takhat Dhir, and Bhai Tirath Uppal – came together to the Sixth Guru Sahib

and prayed, “O True, Sovereign! we listen to holy discourses. Your Gursikhs

(disciples) explain to us with detailed meanings, but even then why don’t

we get joy and peace of mind? Our mind continues wandering in different

directions. But when we listen to ‘kirtan’ (singing of Gurbani)-cum-explication

from Bhai Nivala and Bhai Nihaloo, we are filled with fear of sins and evils,

and we feel inclined to give up evil thoughts and wickedness, and start

imbibing Gurmat (Guru’s teachings) and the light of Divine knowledge and

understanding is lit within us. O True Sovereign! why does it happen that

while listening to the discourses of many persons, our mind does not become

absorbed in them at all? On the other hand, there are some discourses in

which the wandering fancy becomes still and concentrated in the mind. At

this Guru Sahib said to them, “O Gursikhs! there is a proper method for

attending a holy congregation in which both the speaker and the listeners

have a responsible role to play. Generally, fourteen qualities are needed in

the speaker and fourteen in the listener, and only then does it prove to be

perfectly fruitful, otherwise not.”

On that occasion, the Sikhs requested Guru Sahib, “O Master! kindly tell

us in detail the qualities of a good speaker. We are your servants; we shall

be greatly benefited when we come to know about the qualities of a good

speaker and a good listener.” Guru Sahib said, “The first quality of a speaker

is that his utterance should be pleasing, steady, sweet, gentle and humble;

i.e. free from pride. He should know the meanings of the ‘shabad’ (hymn)

fully.

The second quality is that he should speak as loudly as warranted by

the number of listeners. If there are devotees sitting upto some distance, and

he speaks in a low tone, then those sitting nearby will be able to hear him,

but not those sitting at some distance. ‘Chhand’ (stanza or song) and ‘dharna’

(refrain) should be recited or sung at the required pitch.

Thirdly, he should

know how to explain the subject in detail, and how to express it in a brief

manner. He should be acquainted with both the arts. He should keep an

eye on the congregation to see whether what he is saying is interesting them

or not, or whether it is going home to them or not. He should continue

observing the listeners’ attention carefully. He should state a subject in as

much detail and depth as is intelligible to them. The moment, their attention

starts declining, he should stop explaining in detail and wind up the subject

briefly.

Fourthly, he should be capable of describing the context of his

discourse and the illustrative stories therein in a gentle, loving and appealing

manner. He should make his utterances so sweet that they may sound

charming to them.

Fifthly, every utterance from his tongue should be true

and about truth. In the holy congregation, he should not utter anything

which is purposeless or fruitless. He should talk about ‘karma’ (deeds),

worship and devotion, and Divine knowledge according to the mental and

spiritual level of the listeners. He should be competent to explain the doctrine

fully and should explicate by drawing conclusions or through careful

discrimination and discernment.

The sixth quality of a good speaker is that whatever doubts and

misgivings appear to be rising in the course of the discourse, he should dispel

them by giving examples, and if some listener asks a question, the speaker

should know the art of answering it to the satisfaction of the questioner.

He should be capable of explaining the central idea of the ‘shabad’ (hymn)

clearly, and in support thereof, he should be able to give illustrations from

old tales and stories or the proofs adduced by holy men. He should give

examples only after estimating the listeners’ level of intelligence and

understanding lest he should continue to display his learning which goes

above their heads. The examples given should be such as the listeners can

understand.

Seventhly, the speaker should be fully conversant with the

scriptures of all religions, their controversies and debates. He should not

criticize any other religion or its scripture, and should quote only that much

writing or utterance which agrees with his own religious doctrine or tenets.

The eighth virtue is that he should not allow any digressions in his discourse.

He should not digress and should speak with reference to the subject

of the discourse. He should not talk about things which are unrelated with

or irrelevant to the topic. He should take only those illustrative stories from

other religions which resemble with Gurmat (Sikh doctrine) and help in

understanding its meaning or objective.

The ninth quality is that the speaker’s

posture should be perfect and flawless. He should sit with his back straight,

and similarly, he should keep his mind also simple, straight and guileless.

The tenth quality is that, from time to time, he should make such utterances

also which please the listeners and create love and reverence for the Guru

(Perfect Holy Preceptor). In this manner, he should enthral the entire

audience. He should ensure that the listeners sitting in front of him are

listening to him attentively, and none is looking hither and thither. The

listeners should be all attention waiting eagerly for what he is going to say

next.

Eleventhly, he should not feel proud, thinking that he is speaking well

and the listeners are listening to him attentively. Eschewing every kind of

pride, he should keep his mind humble. In spite of possessing many virtues,

he should not feel proud and cultivate humility.

In the twelfth place, he

should not belittle any person. He should not intentionally make any critical

comment by keeping any particular individual in mind. His own life should

be thoroughly religious and pious and the listeners should have keen longing

and devotion for listening to his discourses.

The thirteenth quality of a good

religious speaker is that before making any utterance, he should first imbibe

and follow it in his own life. In other words, before preaching anything, he

should first practise it himself.

The fourteenth important quality is that he

should cultivate and practise contentment. He should be satisfied with his

lot or destiny. He should not resort to any means to extract money from

the congregation for his own self. He should accept only what is offered

voluntarily as a token of reverence for Gurbani. What is received without any

request and demand is like ‘amrit’ (nectar). He should not pray even in his

heart or mind that he should receive wealth and clothes in abundance. Thus,

these fourteen qualities are essential in a religious speaker or explicator. Once

again I repeat them in brief:

1. He should be capable of speaking in a sweet and pleasing tone. (2)

He should be capable of explaining things in detail in keeping with the

listeners’ inclination or interest. (3) He should be in a position to be brief, if

needed. (4) He should be able to tell interesting illustrative stories. (5) He

should be capable of uttering clear and precise sentences. (6) He should have

the ability to dispel the listeners’ doubts? (7) He should be familiar with all

the scriptures. (8) He should not give contrary proofs or examples with

reference to the topic being discussed. (9) He should sit in a correct posture,

which is appealing to the eyes. He should not make superfluous gestures or

movements with eyes, nose, ears, hands and fingers or needlessly move his

hand over his head. He should sit in a straight and erect posture. (10) He

should delight the listeners’ heart. (11) He should be able to win all. (12)

He should be free from pride or vanity. (13) He should be of religious and

pious thinking without any difference between his words and deeds. He

should not repeat the utterances of others, or what he has heard from others.

(14) The biggest attribute is that he should be contented with his lot, and

should not feel attracted towards Maya (material riches).

Similarly, a good listener too has fourteen qualities. He should have faith

in and devotion for the speaker in thoughts, words and deeds. Secondly, he

should not have any pride in him. Thirdly, he should listen to the speaker

with perfect love and devotion. Fourthly, there should not be any counterargument

in his mind. Fifthly, he should not be capricious and should not

practise cunningness in words and deeds. He should listen to the speaker

attentively and endeavour to comprehend his discourse. Sixthly, he should

have the ability to ask questions about the discourse he has heard. Seventhly,

he should have heard about all the scriptures. Eighthly, he should not be

lazy or lethargic, and listen to the speaker’s discourse by sitting straight and

erect and free from all other thoughts in the mind, either with closed eyes

or with eyes fixed on the speaker’s face. Ninthly, when he is listening to

the discourse, he should not let sleep or indolence come near him. Tenthly,

he should have the nature and temperament of sharing his earnings with

the needy. Eleventhly, he should imbibe in the heart and mind whatever he

hears at a holy congregation. Twelfthly, he should not be opposed to or

critical of the Gurmat doctrine in any way exactly as, he has heard what

the Guru has said:

‘O my mind! why thou art fallen into this brooding?

The Lord Himself on thy behalf is making endeavour;

In rocks and stones has He created living creatures,

Whose sustenance He there provides.’

Considering it an absolute truth, he should follow it in his life. He should

not entertain any doubt or criticism with reference to the Guru’s utterances.

The thirteenth quality which is very essential in a good and pious listener is

that he should not attend a holy congregation dressed in dirty and foul smelling

clothes; he should not yawn and should come to the company of

the holy only after cleaning his bowels, so that he does not pass out wind

there. Fourteenth requirement for a listener is that he should not practise

any hypocrisy or affectation. For example, where a very moving discourse

is being delivered, he should not shed false tears without being really touched,

and try to attract the attention of other devotees thereby. When the speaker

and listener possess the required qualities, then as per the Guru’s edict:

‘Merit of million-fold sacrifice comes to such as listen to, and chant the Lord’s

Name.’

Until these 28 attributes (of the speaker and the listener) accord with

one another, we are deprived of reaping the great advantage of attending

the holy congregation. So, all of you have been attending holy congregation

for a long time, but if man is not careful and attentive, nothing is gained

even after much effort and labour. Just as a farmer has land and he does

farming, but if he does not know how deep the seed is to be sown, and

how manure is to be put, whether it should touch the seed or not, and then

if he does not know how much the leveller is to be applied, how heavy it

should be, when the field is to be watered and when the weeds are to be

removed, he cannot get a full or rich crop. That farmer, who neither knows

about wetness of the land, nor about putting manure, nor about other

moistures in the land, cannot get a good crop. If excessive water is given to

the wheat crops in the month of ‘Chet’ (Indian month coinciding with

February and March) it will sag. However good the crop may be, the yield

is reduced to half. In paddy crop, if excessive urea is put, it will appear

black, and one will be delighted, but when the fruit comes, it is not even

1/4th of the average fruit. Then man sadly wonders what has happened –

‘My crop was the best of all. Everybody stopped to watch it with joy and

surprise.’ His companion with a weak mind remarks, ‘Brother! your crop was

excellent, but since you did not put up a black pot to ward off evil eyes, it

has been destroyed by someone’s malevolent eye.’ But what is the reality?

There is no such thing as being influenced by an evil eye. The truth is that

he put excessive urea due to which, after growing quickly, when it came to

seeding, it sagged and got diseased. So there was nothing lacking in effort

or labour; what was lacking was that the person did not know the right

and proper method or procedure, and did not have full knowledge. So, in

this way, you may take up any task in the world – industry, transport or

business – if proper method is not known, man does not get full reward,

even if he invests the required capital.

[singh135]

ElusiveFighter: another awesome post.

[chatanga]

great posts guys, but what i was getting at, is the method(s) that we can use best to teach Gurmat.

Whats been on my mind for a few months is that camps are not really an effective way of teaching Gurmat, although they do have some positives, but we are really in need of some kind of educaitonal setup in gurdwaras, where we are not doing nothing for 3 months, and then rushing around for 1,2 or 3 days trying to cram in as much info as possible.

like if there was a hungry person, would you starve him for so many days and then give him a lot of food and say eat it all now? Or would it be better to give it on a regular basis where he/she can benefit from it short term and long term?

[ElusiveFighter]

Gurdwarai need to become 'dharam-salas' again i.e. taksals of dharam or institution of spiritual/righteous living education.

A good model to follow is Jewish or Islamic institutions, where many Synagogues and Masjids around the world have study circles and discussion groups as well as weekly presentations from guest speakers. We have the latter element in the form of Punjabi parchaar, but not anything for the majority English speaking youth. Cross Roads Gurdwara in Coventry does a good job of tackling this in my humble opinion (leaving jathai bandiyan affiliation aside for a moment).

Everyone should strive to set up a study circle amongst friends and family, in and out the Gurdwara. We waste much time talking about politics and inter Sikh Jathe bashing, we should use our precious time to 'learn' and become students – “Shabd Guru, Surat, Gur-Chela”.

With Gur-Prasad we will become teachers. Once we reach a level where we are comfortable discussing Gurmat and have the right character (through bhagti) and the right knowledge (through earnest effort) we will not have to come here and relay our problems, we will be making changes in our community instead - serving by example.

At the very least, every Gurdwara should have an access point for all - to come and have vichaar in English - that is the basic. Everyone here can easily book a room on an evening or weekend for a few hours and put up an advert.

Here is an idea, this website has some great articles which cover many topics of life via Gurmat perspective. Print one article each week, send it out via an email list (set one up for youth/sangat in general at your Gurdwara) and arrange a time for all to come together to discuss. Or alternatively, present the article, then hold a discussion. The content and Gurbani in the articles will easily lead to a great discussion, about experience, opinions etc. But it will ultimately lead back to the answer/solution, which is contained in the Gurmat pangatis within the articles.

Apologies for the rushed reply, just had a few minutes. There are also some groups around the UK now who come and hold well organised workshops etc for the youth, also worth looking into. The idea of getting a guest speaker once a week or fortnight is great too i.e. English speaking Sikhi Divaan.

Here are the articles. Again, I don't know about jathebandi affiliation, nor care, on the whole these articles are very good, and can be used even if you don't agree on some minor points.

http://www.gurbani.org/articlemenu.php

The idea of discussing different topics relating to various aspects of life, will be appealing to youth (and adults alike), and very engaging. Hopefully create a thirst for more, and establish a culture of education and learning again in our Gurdwarai.

[chatanga]

Try nicer and more politer ways to bring kids into sikhi rather than cursing at the ones who cut their hair

to add to that;

catch them at the right time. we all know its easier to mould people whilst they are still in a certain age-group, so you must make sure that you are doing something then, not trying to do something when they are of independent mind fully.

no point in shutting the stable door after the horses have bolted.

[chatanga]

yes it might seem like a brainwashing but what im saying is that once a persons ideas of life and existence are formulated, its quite hard to change, so why not plant the seeds of gurmat in them whilst they are young.