History of Taksal.

[singhfauja]

N30S1NGH Ji,

There is no doubt that Panch Khalsa Divan (Bhasaur) did a lot of good parchar early on but went against the Guru Panth in their later days, but they were not the only ones. Many Nirmala and Udaasee groups are no less guilty of causing massive harm to Sikhi.

Giani Sant Singh, although being a great Gurbani Kathakar, was directly responsible for introducing Hindu Aartee rituals inside Sri Darbar Sahib during Maharaj Ranjit Singh's days, and fully participated in Hindu marriage rites organized by the royal families - mainly due to the heavy influence of the Brahmins and Dogras. This is well documented in historical texts. Akali Phula Singh Ji did not agree with much of the maryada that went on, and philosophically clashed against the Gianis and the caretakers of that time.

Things got even worse after the fall of the Raj. Amrit Sanchars were almost non-existent, Sikhs families started to follow Hindu rituals and worship HIndu deities. Thanks to the original Nirankaris and the original Kukas some initial traditions like vanished Anand (Karj) maryada, and not bowing to idols were restored.

This was a sad time for our institutions also, many corrupt Udasee/Nirmala Gianis openly began to consume liquor and participate in fortification inside the Gurdwaras - idols of Hindu deities, pictures of Durga/Kali were installed at major historic Gurdwaras. Women were being kidnapped and raped at Sri Darbar Sahib's parikarma, TarnTaran Sahib, and Nankana Sahib - it was no longer safe for anyone to even visit these Gurdwaras.

Thankfully the new organizations emerged during the Singh Sabha movement such as the Khalsa Diwans, Panch Khalsa Diwans, Gargajj Akali and others, who launched countless morchas and agitations and sacrificed immensely to free our Gurdwara from the evil mahants. Oddly, many Nirmalays, Udaasees, and Nihangs sided with the corrupt mahants and thus lost their veneration in the Panth. Naturally, newer organizations emerged to fill this void.

Most modern samperdais/deras/dals are really a byproduct of Nirmalay-Singh Sabha associated Sants some of whom played a vital part in the Singh Sabha Lehar and or the Gurdwara Sudhar Lehar.

Never the less, they still carried on many Nirmala oriented traditions such as giving Amrit in separate Battas or making Amrit with a Kirpan for women and for lower castes, etc. This and other practices such as banning Karah parshad to lower casters was also practiced at Sri Akal Takht Sahib until the Singh Sabha and the Khalsa Diwan groups brought an end to this practice.

Oddly this discrimination during Amrit Sanchar continued in many samperdais and dera well into the 1970's. I believe Tarnal Dal discontinued it in the 1970's, and by the Mehta Taksal when Sant Jarnail Singh Ji's took over.

Even though Sikhs claim be the religion of equality, hidden forms of discrimination still exists against women in many organizations and institutions of the Panth - even at Sri Darbar Sahib, Amritsar Sahib.

No modern Sikh organization, except the Khalsa Panth itself, can claim lineage Guru Sahib or claim to be following the *ORIGINAL MARYADA*. Those who claim this are ignorant of their own history.

Those who claim this should be asked where was their *PRINSTINE MARYADA* during Ranjit Singh's time and the dark period of 100 years afterwards?

They will have no real answer.

[osingh]

Panch Khalsa had good points i.e. Same Amrit sanchar for women, promoting importance of keski and no separate Amrit for "lower castes."

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Everyone wants reference texts for anything that we post, can I ask the same from Singh fauja to reference everything that he has written in this thread so we can read the books aswell and see if be speaks the truth or is manipulating and lying as what has happened in the past by other posters.

[Singh559]

Everyone wants reference texts for anything that we post, can I ask the same from Singh fauja to reference everything that he has written in this thread so we can read the books aswell and see if be speaks the truth or is manipulating and lying as what has happened in the past by other posters.

Why the double standard? He dd refer to quite a few books on page two, but not on the third page.

Akali Phoola Singh was the very definition of a Khalsa we should aspire to become.

[singhfauja]

khalistan_zindabaad ji,

Please let me know which references you are interested in and I shall do my best to provide or cite them. The intention of my post was not undermine any samperdya or group but just pointing out to my veer N30S1NGH Ji that it was not just the Panch Khalsa Divan (Bhasaur) that ended up heading the wrong way but the Nirmalas and Udaasees have done far worse things.

I have nothing against Nirmalas and Udaasees, as individuals they have contributed immensely to the Panth - but as an organization not so much - as they do have different values and beliefs than the rest of the Panth.

Swami Brahmdev Udasi (Gopal Singh) is a great example of this. He has vast knowledge of Gurbani, especially Sri Dasam Granth, and even though he still carries some sanatan philosophies, but we should look beyond that and appreciate his positive contributions.

[chatanga]

just pointing out to my veer N30S1NGH Ji that it was not just the Panch Khalsa Divan (Bhasaur) that ended up heading the wrong way but the Nirmalas and Udaasees have done far worse things.

you cannot compare the 2, because PKD as an organisation completely went the wrong way, whereas there were only elements within Nirmal and Udasi panth that went against its original mandate. It is unfair to label the complete samprdaye as completely anti-panth. The Singh Sabha lehar only took over gurdwaras from the mahants who were not udasis per se, and those udasis who did not live up to the standard of the Udasis in Gurus times, and in the case of some gurdwaras, they remained under the supervision of Udasis, who were following the original sewa given to them by the Gurus.

One bad apple doesnt make the barrel rotten.

[singhfauja]

chatanga veer,

One bad apple doesnt make the barrel rotten.

I agree with your above statement Khalsa Ji. Please keep in that Panch Khalsa Divan (Bhasaur) was not the entire Panch Khalsa Divan, Baba Attar Singh was also part of Panch Khalsa Divan so very many other good GurSikhs. It was the Bhasaur branch that took those anti-Panthic actions.

I agree that the entire Udaasee samperdya was not corrupt, just those who were controlling the Gurdwaras (mahants) and some of the key leaders. If you read about the Nanakana Sahib Saka, you will find before the attack on the Singhs, there was a "Sanatan Sikhi" conference held by Mahant Narainoo which was highly attended by the Nirmalas, Udasees, and many Nihang factions, and this was all coordinated with the British authorities.

I think most modern Udaasees and Nirmalas understand what happened during that time was wrong - so I agree it is unfair to paint them all with the same brush. That was no my intention.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Thanks veer

[Singh559]

So, like always, the answer usually lies in the middle of two arguments where people swear that "I'm right and you're wrong".

Interesting and informative thread/great posts from all sides.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

The answer sometimes does lie in between but at other times some just prefer not to argue a point across, sikh sangat does not rep the whole panth not does it have scholars on the board from these organisations to present an argument across