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Dasvand & Emotional Blackmailing


Emotional Blackmail  

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  1. 1. Are we emotionally blackmailed into donating money



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VaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, VaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh,

I hope this topic raises some sort of constructive discussion here, where we can learn something.

This is a issue which is very close to everyone, as it involves you giving part of something which belongs to a complete stranger with whom you have no affiliation, most of the time this "something" is Money. Most of the time, only Money is asked for, very few organisations ask for skills of an individual, etc.

This is the case for all religious organisations, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Jain, Sikhi, Christianity, etc.

There is some sort of divine law which requires or in some cases warrants us to give to the needy and less fortunate.

I would like to discuss what Gurbani has to say about Dasvand, where this concept was mentioned, how it was born, who put it forward.

Some of the ways in which we are asked to donate are

- Donate your dasvand to

- Donate the Gurus dasvand to

- To attain Gurus happyness, donate to

- If you don't donate, you will be in Karmic Debt

- Sikhi will be finished if you don't donate

-How do you know that your dasvand will be used honestly, if it isn't then you will be held responsible and the bad karmic action will affect you too.

For example, we give money to a Baba (or organisation), but that baba (or organisation) doesn't use that money for the intended purpose. Because he didn't use it for the intended purpose, you will also be affected by his bad karmic action.

Now, lets say if you make all possible enquiries into where the money will go, you still will be held responsible.

In these incidents, YOU, the person donating, do not know about the hidden agenda of the baba (or organisation).

So question is, HOW ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE?

I first heard this from a Radha Soami in India around 7 years ago, where he was saying, if you donate your money to a poor man and he goes and drinks, then beats his wife up or kills her, YOU will be HELD responsible. When I challenged him, he just kept to his line that you will be held responsible EVEN if you don't know.

After all of this, he said, So its better to donate to US as we will honestly spend your money. *the small print*

So as we see, Psychological and Emotional blackmailing is used to make you feel guilty about something which "might" happen in the future. However if you give to them, then you are OK and NOTHING will happen to you.

Are these ways of making you feel guilty to take your money from you????

So, what does Gurbani say, specifically on Dasvand, Charity, Karmic Debt, etc.

I am not against helping the needy and less fortunate, however we must have some clarity here and not get washed away in our emotions when we hear some lines of gurbani being spoken sweetly, all designed to rob you.

Please Note - Sources and references must be given. No made up stories which are designed to make your feel guilty.

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makes sense that some responsibility would fall upon you, as without your funds their actions would not be possible.

similarly, if we donate to american cancer society, we would only get phall for less than half of our donation b/c most of their money gets wasted in huge salaries and advertisements etc. if someone donates to gursevak, the founder bhagat ji, has such gareebi (nimrata) that he wears the same chola everyday and all the work is done by volunteers, so its easy to see how one might get a large seva return on investment.

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makes sense that some responsibility would fall upon you, as without your funds their actions would not be possible.

similarly, if we donate to american cancer society, we would only get phall for less than half of our donation b/c most of their money gets wasted in huge salaries and advertisements etc. if someone donates to gursevak, the founder bhagat ji, has such gareebi (nimrata) that he wears the same chola everyday and all the work is done by volunteers, so its easy to see how one might get a large seva return on investment.

There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest.

Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment?

Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

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For example, we give money to a Baba (or organisation), but that baba (or organisation) doesn't use that money for the intended purpose. Because he didn't use it for the intended purpose, you will also be affected by his bad karmic action.

Now, lets say if you make all possible enquiries into where the money will go, you still will be held responsible.

Bhaji, is this what you beleive?

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Bhaji, is this what you beleive?

Brother, I am just asking a question, I want to know what people here, people who actually study Gurbani, practise it think and believe. Read my post,think about it.

What is Gurbanis stand point (PLEASE PLEASE don't just copy and paste Gurbani, go through it, explain your decision.)

Replies like "oh because this sant said this etc" will not wash here.

What I believe is irrelevant at this stage.

There are alot of pakhandis who use gurbani, religious texts to emotionally black mail people, putting the fear of god into them, indirectly, just to fill their pockets. Its happening right now, has been happening and will continue to happen long after I am dead, so in those respects you can also say its pointless to talk about it. But is it really?

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There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest.

Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment?

Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

In this case, I was referring to a specific organisation --> http://www.gursevak.com/content/going-seva%C2'>

That being said, you are right that just b/c an organisation is run by gursikhs it doesn't mean that it will be honest.

When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment.

There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest.

Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment?

Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

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In this case, I was referring to a specific organisation -->

That being said, you are right that just b/c an organisation is run by gursikhs it doesn't mean that it will be honest.

When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment.

Sure, what does Gurbani have to say on this? please do prove some quotations to share with the sangat

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AklI piV@ kY buJIAY AklI kIcY dwnu ] (1245-5, swrMg, mÚ 1)

aklee parhH kai bujhee-ai aklee keechai daan.

Wisdom does not come by reading textbooks; wisdom inspires us to give in charity.

I disagree with the above translations, I have commonly heard the translations of 'aklee keechai daan' to be that u should think before donating, think of the consequences, because in essence, you will be accountable for it.

And yes, this has made me very reluctant to donate, as I am afraid of the unforseen consequences. And I always want to give money to the beggars, but don't because i'm afraid they'll use it for drugs or alcohol.

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I'm sure you can search for Gurbani qoutations by yourself for this topic. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

Thank you for your smart reply, however I am not asking sangat here for gurbani quotes, this is meant to be a discussion, but it seems like people don't like discussing issues or topics here..

In my initial post which started this thread, I was not asking a question if Gurbani confirms dasvand, etc. I was asking the Sangat here for their views.

You represented your views, with words like "dharma", karma, etc. Infact here is your post "When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment"...

I don't want this to turn into one of those typical ego fights. The purpose of this thread is that the Sangat comes together and educates one another, not to show off their Gurbani knowledge, etc.

So, I ask again you again to read my post again and think about it..else please no smart remarks, however I can't stop you for doing that...

vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh

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