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Dasvand & Emotional Blackmailing


Emotional Blackmail  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Are we emotionally blackmailed into donating money



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I'm sure you can search for Gurbani qoutations by yourself for this topic. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

Thank you for your smart reply, however I am not asking sangat here for gurbani quotes, this is meant to be a discussion, but it seems like people don't like discussing issues or topics here..

In my initial post which started this thread, I was not asking a question if Gurbani confirms dasvand, etc. I was asking the Sangat here for their views.

You represented your views, with words like "dharma", karma, etc. Infact here is your post "When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment"...

I don't want this to turn into one of those typical ego fights. The purpose of this thread is that the Sangat comes together and educates one another, not to show off their Gurbani knowledge, etc.

So, I ask again you again to read my post again and think about it..else please no smart remarks, however I can't stop you for doing that...

vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh

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realy confusing thread one minute OP asks for "gurbani standpoint" the next asks for "sangats views"

although i appreciate its hard to know where your money goes does that stop you buying a tv where the commision goes to the salesman who might spend it on alchohol or to the shop owner who might spend it on cigarettes? all in all i you give with an open heart and you are happy then good really doesnt matter what others think!

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No gurbani quotes - OK does this prove someone's smart ??

NO- I don't think so. We can all quote, but do we really understand the message in a tuk ?

Anyway, as this thread is just going to get awkward responses because OP insists on strict criteria, then I will give my few cents here.

What is important about the whole of gurbani is that it tells you to use your common sense and logic.

It doesn't say do this or do that, but it simply tells you what to expect if you do this or do that.

The whole purpose is that it makes you think and use your God- given brain!!!

Therefore, if A gives to C via B, and B keeps or pockets the money. Then how the hell can A be blamed and punished for B's actions ????

If you come across a situation where you need to make a choice to give or not, then you should go with your instinct and desire to give. There is no point in giving, if it is really hurting you.

For example, I know of some businessmen who like to prove and show that they give generously and they do go and actually show this. BUT it hurts them to give, so in the back of their minds they plan another scam in their business to get the same amount of money back to them. In this instance they give with one hand and take back more with the other !!!!

If we see a homeless tramp outside on the street asking for a few dollars or pounds, then what do you do ??

First, remember that he has asked, so you have the choice of saying No.

Now, there will be different responses by different people for different reasons.-

1) Will say 'No, i don't have any'' even though they do, but they have lied for an excuse and just can't be bothered.

2) Will say 'later or not yet'' because they cannot be bothered to put their hands in their pockets. - they are not fibbing, but will probably forget ad hope the tramp forgets- Still better than no1 answer though.

3) Will just ignore them blindly and leave the tramp to feel sorry for asking ! - IGNORANCE is NOT Gurmat!!

4) Will swear at them or tell them to get a job or make some other remark OR most commonly REFUSE because they believe the tramp will only purchase some tobacco or liquor instead of food !!

(does this give you the right to assume and dictate ??)

- This is the same as refusing to give to A, because you have no control on what A will do with the money.ie.. whether it will go to B or C, but is that reall your issue ??

5) You will get the kind fellow who wll stop and dig in and give whatever change or few dollars they have.

6) You will get the person that has no change because they only have credit/debit card, but they still feel guilty and they have time to buy the tramp some food from a store a few footsteps away.

This is what they do.... They purchase a meal for the tramp and give it to him.

Out of ALL the above, it is apparent that only 5 and 6 are the true gurmat reactions and attitudes, but sadly very few of us fall into this category.

You can ALL decide for yourself now, what is the best choice to make, even if you have always been a number 1 to 4, but simply not realised the consequences of your approach.

I know for a fact that we have many members, if they are honest enough on here that respond with 1 to 4, because if one stands next to a homeless and watches all the different respones, then 1 to 4 will be the majority by far.

Nex time, maybe we should all just take a moment to think exactly why we give a different response to 5 and 6

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agree with lucky really we should be stopping and buying them food if you dont trust them with the money!

but for OPs question if we give money how do we know its not going on alcohol etc when we give to the gurdwara are u 100% sure your money is going on something useful maybe is just lining the committees pockets.....see its the INTENTION that counts

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I think the word investment is really key here. What I think happens in our community a lot is this...

"This Baba looks like a Sant, if I give him £500 then he will bless me and my business/works will come to fruition and I'll get back £10,000, so this is a great investment. Not only that, everyone will see me donating and will respect me."

Gurbani says... "De De, Mangeh Sehsa Goona, Sobh Kare Sansaar" You give and give, but you ask for a 1000 times more and that everyone respects you.

Gurbani also says, "Kot Madhe Ko Virla Sevak, Sagle Biohari. "Out of millions, hardly anyone is a servant (nishkaam seva), all others are mere traders."

So thats why there are loads of Babas, you cant get money unless you're a baba. If Bhagat Puran Singh had travelled the world with a chitta chola and let people matha tek to him...but thankfully he didn't and realised true wealth lies at Gurus feet.

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  • 4 weeks later...

F Dasvand. To begin with, this entire banking system is a fraud your signature is the security and all this money is promissory notes the Bank of England admits to this publicly.

Secondly, blah blah comittee etc.

Basically do good for the panth (humanity), someone says DONATE UR DASVAND BRO!!

U reply,

I donate my head, can you compare?

End of discussion.

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I might be wrong......but for sure..need to inquire before donating......and let's say it was used for good puropose....thumbs up,,,,,,,,and if it ended up in wrong hands but your intention was good and you did your best to inquire beforehand....then you won't be blamed for that.....Guru ji will get that daswand from the person you gave by HIMSELF in any way.....there was a sakhi that I don't remember properly.....there was a sikh who has 2 gold kangans he kept for guru ji as gift or daswand.....one of his neighbour was going to visit Guru ji..the sikh gave him the kangans to give it to Guru ji and did ardas.........that neighbour got greedy and kept one kanagan with himself and gave only one to Guru ji....Guru ji knew......when the sikh visited......don't remeber this part properly......he told the whole story to Guru ji...and said forgive me my gift didn't reach you...then Guru ji said...I received it the moment you gave it to me from your heart......now it's upto me how I get it from him..........it all depends on our intentions (shardha)

fyi: daswand is calculated from the income less the tax/fuel or other expenses....from the savings or profit

bhul chuk maaf

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Intresting topic. My view is that yes we should donate as much as we can.

There is the concept of dasvandh, but in todays economic climate it is very hard to contribute 10% of income. Also how do you calculate it, like is it pre-tax or nett, does giving money equate to more than providing seva (i.e. your time), does the formality of donating your money or time count if you only do it as a mere formality or does it have to 100% selfless? So many people do seva or contribute and then ask Waheguru Ji please I will give this much money or do so and so seva or I will do this many jaaps of bani. Does it count? Does Waheguru need anything from us? Can we make deals? I think NO. If we give to charity give as much as you can not because you want in return or expect people to say wow! what a great guy. You should give because you genuinely want to help someone. No strings attached, want nothing in return.

Sikhi teaches us to give to charity but those who have nothing how can they give dasvandh? My personal belief is that the 10% is not as rigid as we make out as many can give more and many may not even give a small percentage or anyhting at all. I feel we need to be good humans and have good actions. Your intentions should be honest.

Also a point was made that if you give your donations to someone who then does not use the money for intended purpose but for other means then you will also get bad karma. Is this a Sikh belief?As I find it very hard to fathom. As how can person 'A' be responsile for person 'B's actions. Ok he has equipped him with the funds to XYZ, but he has not even been made aware. He thinks it is for all good. So how can you be blamed? Also will it work the other way found e.g. the most evil person ever has equipped you with explosives and guns etc. Ordered you to commit attrocities against innocent civilians and you as a solider refuse and use the same equipment to help defend inncoent people, will the evil person then get good karma as they provided you with the means to help innocent people. I think NOT.

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