And So The Kumbh Mela Begins

[luckysingh99]

I don't know why khande batta da amrit is being compared as amrit water to sarowar water.

Two completely different things!!

Firstly, the khande batta da amrit can only be if the 'panj' are present. No person on their own, no matter who they are, can make the same amrit for ceremony as when the panj are present.

The significance is NOT about how holy or pure the amrit is, but it is about the panj being present.

If we are comparing waters, then we can't compare other holy waters to khande ka amrit.

So sarowar water, no matter if it's molecules have vibrations of all gurbani from SGGSji being read thousands of times will still NOT replace the bhatta amrit, because of the panj being present.

Simple.... No panj= No amrit ceremony

Therefore water from sarowar may have millions of gurbani vibrations eminating from it, BUT it won't transform any recipient to something more pure. This water from sarowar is not amrit that is used for initiation ceremony in any way.

You may call it amrit, if you wish- BUT don't confuse it with amrit from the panj.

[VanHelsingh]

So what your saying is i need a better marketing scheme. Maybe you can ask you know who for me......lol

I'll work on being nicer, but i won't promise anything for that one member. Only if he stops spreading his idol worship manmat, which his Guru Yogi Bhajan taught and told him to spread. Then we can get along.

I guess, lol. There's no need to always be "on the attack" as it were. Some people just want to get along and learn. If we can't co-operate and be cordial amongst fellow Sikhs then what chance do we have of ever convincing non-Sikhs that Sikhi is a decent way of living. Our ire should be reserved for those who intentionally sow seeds of discord; not those who are forming ideas and opinions and occasionally make mistakes along the way. Sure, you've got to set people straight on the odd occasion, especially if you're being misrepresented etc.

One thing that I've learnt to work on is to never hold a grudge. If anyone knows me, for me to even entertain this notion as recently as 2 or so years ago is an absolute miracle. But if you walk on this path that kind of "mellow" thinking automatically begins to come to the individual. That doesn't mean we should become hippy walk-overs, but we should learn to not burn our insides with boiling rage at past events. Always look to make bridges with those that feel the same.

Of course there are some unforgivable things that can never be forgotten so easily. But on forums like these there's never any reason for things to get deadly personal.

[humkire]

Dear N30 Jee,

You have somehow misunderstood me to mean that the jal of the sarowar around Harmandir Sahib is the same as Khande Batte da Amrit. They are not. Traditionally, Sikhs out of respect, loosely call the jal of the the sarowar around Harmandir Sahib amrit, the way we also call that jal which is prepared at the birth of a Sikh child, amrit. This is however at a different level from Khande Batte da Amrit. Anyway the answers to your questions are as follows;

Question a)If water from sarovar (not just amritsar sarovar but any gurdwara sarovar) holds a same significance as water in khanda batta da amrit then whats the symbolism behind stiring the water with khanda, while bani is recited?

Answer: No one has suggested amritsar sarovar and khande batte da amrit i.e Amrit Pahul are the same. However sarovar water around harmandir sahib has always been held sacred because of Gurbani being sung at Harmandir Sahib. No water at any tirath is comparable to this.

Question b)If water from sarovar (not just amritsar sarovar but any gurdwara sarovar) holds a same significance as water in khanda batta da amrit then whats the symbolism behind recting gurbanis again to purify given the fact- water from sarovar already purified or turned into amrit as gurbani is being sung and recited on speakers?

Answer: As I have explained above, they are not the same and do not hold the same significance. You should know already that the Amrit Pahul ceremony involving the preparation and administering of Khande Batte da Amrit by the Panj Pyaras,is the Birth Hub of the Khalsa, and is far more than just holifying water. It goes beyond symbolism and is in fact a special Act of Gurus Grace on an ablakhee.

Question c) If general perception is water itself in sarovar is holy and very very sacred as gurbani is being sung in the background, then whats the thought process behind having filtration system installed in the sarovar at the first place?

Answer: Firstly this is beyond perception but a fact, and secondly, having a system to rid the jal of bird droppings and other dirt does not make it any less sacred.

Question d) if water from sarovar (not just amritsar sarovar but any gurdwara sarovar) holds a same significance as water in khanda batta da amrit then how come we don't have maryada of getting the same water from sarovar and using it in preparation for khanda da amrit?

Answer: As I have answered above the two are not comparable.

Question e) is there any contradiction when i state- devotion is two way street and if individual have faithless, devotionless, cynism type of sheild around them that same water in sarovar cannot have its effect not because it does not have capability but because individual have shield around them?

Answer: Whether or not a person has sharda does not negate the fact that as a rule of the thumb, as Sikhs we hold the sarowar around Harmandir Sahib to be blessed by the kirtan. No sheild of an athiest or faithless person is strong enough before the power of God, and there are many many miracles told and untold, how the wavering faith of a faithless person has been rejuvenated by a visit to Harmandir Sahib.

As I have mentioned, a dip in the sarowar is part of a bigger picture for Sikhs, to go to Amritsar, stay at Harmandir Sahib for a few days, have dips in the sarowar, listen to precious Gurbani and to come back thoroughly rejuvenated and blessed. No tirath visits can or should be made comparable to this.

The issue of Amrit has come up because Sherdil mentioned that all water is blessed, but it is up to men to decide which is holy and which is not. However, the act of transforming water into Khande Batte da Amrit which is beyond even holy is not an act that was initiated by man but by God/Guru. Gods Presence is in us, but we have to surrender our life to Gurujee to let that Presence illumine us. Gods Presence is in us but it is through swaas swaas simran that we will experience this Presence.

My humble advice whether to you are anyone else is no matter what your perception is, please, please, please do not compare visiting Harmandir Sahib and having a dip at the sarowar at Harmandir Sahib, to be akin or anywhere near to a Hindu going to a Kumbh Mela or Tirath. Gurujee has not given us something that is already ordinarily available at the 68 Hindu Tiraths, but through Sikhi and through Khande Batte da Amrit given us something we should be far more awed about, than the picture of a few million Hindus bathing away at a river in the wrong belief it will wash away their sins and purify them. Such pictures may look awesome to some but for a Gurmukh who knows Guru jees teachings about ath sath tirath, such pictures are meaningless, and only make us thank God that we have the truth through Sikhi. This does not make us arrogant but humbled.