Amritdhari, non-amritdhari.

[N30S1NGH]

You have admitted in this very topic that you wouldnt eat from an Amritdhari who hates others and is engrossed in anger. It seems hypocritical not to live by your own standards which you could easily implement by reciting Gurbani over anything he prepares and eat it.

Yes I wouldn't eat from amritdhari or mona "if i know" them engaging in the acts or having attributes mentioned above- if i know thats the keyword here, but my previous post talks about different perspective on this topic- un-certainty of source of food, even if there was such un-certainty, reciting gurbani with full sharda and prem before in taking food on tables i believe would turn that potential impure food to holy as gurbani has that power- outright rejection of person holding that view or faith would be undermining gurbani itself. I don't want to get into that.

[Bijla Singh]

I understand. The point still remails that since some food items are inherently impure and some due to the method of their preparation, reciting Gurbani over them prior to consumption is not an acceptable way. Hence, illogical. Baba Nand Singh once refused to eat mangoes bought from a seller who was smaoking with one hand. Sant Kartar Singh refused to eat at someone's house who was in liquor business. Bibek at some level has always been in practice in different jathas. Some Amrit Sanchaars organized by Taksal clearly tell not to eat from non-Amritdharis. Only put faith in someone you know is doing their best to keep rehat and preparing food. A Sikh eats and drinks Amrit and any food without any Amrit rass is unacceptable.

If there is uncertainty then why not abstain from that food? Have faith in Guru Sahib to provide you with proper food. Bhai Sahib, eh behas da visha nahin. Vichaar should be done on how to overcome challenges in this rehat rather than whether to keep it.

[Sherdil]

"However, can you ensure that every amritdhari has naam enshrined in their heart?"Why do you need my assurance to begin with when Gurbani is there to tell us who a true Sikh is? An Amritdhari is a person who has adopted rehat (not just taken Amrit) and hence has obtained Naam from Satguru. As long as he abides by rehat of Guru Sahib, he is a Sikh and food from him is acceptable. The moment he falters i.e. commits bajjar kurehat, he is not a Sikh anymore."Gurbani has power to make everything amrit/paras kala, its always been there..question here comes down to one's individual full faith and prem in gurbani itself regarding this suitation..if someone has pure intent and pure perception relyin on gurbani and recites gurbani before having food ..i honestly believe - food is parvan and could be eaten..!!"This is not a logical statement. Can one take plain water, put it in a plastic bowl, recite Gurbani and expect it to become Amrit to be given to someone as a form of initiation? Absolutely not. Guru Maryada dictates recitation of Gurbani as well as a qualified person(s) while preparing food, degh and Amrit. Otherwise it is not acceptable. Had your logic been valid, Guru Sahib wouldnt have prohibited meat, liquor and tobacco etc. to Sikhs. You have admitted in this very topic that you wouldnt eat from an Amritdhari who hates others and is engrossed in anger. It seems hypocritical not to live by your own standards which you could easily implement by reciting Gurbani over anything he prepares and eat it.Those who think it is not necessary why not just practice it for a month along with full rehat and see how Guru Sahib blesses you?

But veer ji, can't someone adopt rehat without taking Amrit?

Forsaking food from non-amritdharis is not the rehat of Guru Sahib.

Do you keep full Bibek? Can you explain what blessings you have received?

[N30S1NGH]

I understand. The point still remails that since some food items are inherently impure and some due to the method of their preparation, reciting Gurbani over them prior to consumption is not an acceptable way. Hence, illogical. Baba Nand Singh once refused to eat mangoes bought from a seller who was smaoking with one hand. Sant Kartar Singh refused to eat at someone's house who was in liquor business. Bibek at some level has always been in practice in different jathas. Some Amrit Sanchaars organized by Taksal clearly tell not to eat from non-Amritdharis. Only put faith in someone you know is doing their best to keep rehat and preparing food. A Sikh eats and drinks Amrit and any food without any Amrit rass is unacceptable.

If there is uncertainty then why not abstain from that food? Have faith in Guru Sahib to provide you with proper food. Bhai Sahib, eh behas da visha nahin. Vichaar should be done on how to overcome challenges in this rehat rather than whether to keep it.

Singh sahib Ji, ethai dristhi(perception) di gal aa jandi aa..Maryada purshotam mahapursha nuo maryada seth nal chalna pehenda tai kai oh na daie shardlu nakal marakai gurmat tuo dor na chalai jan but bariqi nuo samajan di lor hai, sikh mahapursh daie vakh vakh nature han, avastha sam hai- ek hai- sant harnam singh ji rampur kherawale da example bhi dekha pai ga sano- maryada purushtam houn daie vavjood oo mahapursh dhabai da cha shak lehndaie san uhna di dristhi nature vakhra si gurbani da asra leh kaie

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,22825

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

I am reading Se Kinehiya and very inspired with the extremely high achievement of Sant Harnam Singh, and curious to know if He met Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singhjio?

Also, I am confused to know Santji drank tea at a cafe, and eats from non-sikhs in their homes, but also preaches high Gurmat discipline, like no meat/ alcohol, taking amrit, etc Is it because Santji is highly achieved, that He could eat where Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singhji would never, so there is no concern for the cup at cafe/ non-sikh homes food dish/ utensils having been made impure by meat/ alcohol/ tobacco user? Bhai Sahib is just as highly achieved as Santji, so why the non-adherence in total Gurmat living by Santji?

Also, initially in the Se Kinehiya book, I thought there is mention of visitors to Santji bowing to Him, but later in book, Sant Sewa Singhji says Santji requests that sangat bow to True King Guru Granth Sahibji, and not to Him. Bhai Sahib never allowing anyone to bow to Him, convince me that He is indeed a Saint, and I don't doubt Sant Harnam Singhji to also be a Saint, but confused with lifestyle of Santji versus that of Bhai Sahibji

Bhul chuk muaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Bijla Singh]

"But veer ji, can't someone adopt rehat without taking Amrit?"

One can keep the rehat but he wont be a Sikh of Guru Sahib. Not that Guru Sahib hates him but he is not accepted in Gurmat because he is still following manmat. The first step in Gurmat is to submit to the Hukam of Guru Sahib and take Naam. If one chooses to bypass this, he is following manmat to begin with. The closet example to it I can give is this: A person can study at home without enrolling in school or any training program but at the end he will not get any certificate or a professional job. One can try to train himself in any sport, but he wont be taken in any team as a professional player. Similarly, one can do all they want, but it is not worth much without enrollment in school of Gursikhi. One can argue that a university might have a challenge test one can take to get the certificate but it goes to show that he must be held to the university standards after all. Same way, one must be held to Gursikhi standards in terms of character and way of life. So how will a non-Sikh practicing Gurmat at home without any sangat be able to pass the test of Guru Sahib? It is not as easy as a university exam and Guru Sahib would never put a non-Sikh through the test of Gursikhi. One can never be a Gurmukh if he starts his journey following manmat. If five monas get together and follow all the steps of preparing Amrit, it will still not be acceptable as Amrit because they are not guru wala. If a degh prepared by a non-Sikh is not acceptable then on the same lines, his food is not acceptable as Guru Ka Langar either. We need to educate others about bibek with reason so they see their own faults and try to improve themselves rather than compromising Gurmat and pushing others away.

Sant Harnaam Singh Ji drank tea that was joothi of another Amritdhari and he took it as a medicine not as a regular practice. There is no mention in Se Kineheya of Sant Ji drinking tea at in dhabas as a regular practice. In fact, he would go on without eating or drinking for days. If we wish to emulate Sant Ji then why not do it as a whole rather than picking easy to follow steps?

A Muslim woman once wished to have Sant Kartar Singh Ji to eat at her house but upon finding out the strict dietary rehat of Sant Ji she took Amrit and then invited the jatha over. Sikhs are becoming lax these days which is the major cause of disunity and suffering. Then we wonder why chardi kala is not happening.

It is up to the individual if he does not want to follow bibek. It won't make him a sinful or a bad person. But practicing will definitely make him a better Sikh.

[N30S1NGH]

Sant Harnaam Singh Ji drank tea that was joothi of another Amritdhari and he took it as a medicine not as a regular practice. There is no mention in Se Kineheya of Sant Ji drinking tea at in dhabas as a regular practice. In fact, he would go on without eating or drinking for days. If we wish to emulate Sant Ji then why not do it as a whole rather than picking easy to follow steps?

A Muslim woman once wished to have Sant Kartar Singh Ji to eat at her house but upon finding out the strict dietary rehat of Sant Ji she took Amrit and then invited the jatha over. Sikhs are becoming lax these days which is the major cause of disunity and suffering. Then we wonder why chardi kala is not happening.

It is up to the individual if he does not want to follow bibek. It won't make him a sinful or a bad person. But practicing will definitely make him a better Sikh

There are plenty of example of other mahapursh(sant isher singh ji rara sahib wale, sant isher singh ji nanaksar wale, sant attar singh ji mustanelywale, sant attar singh ji reru sahib wale etc) who went to roti of non amritdharis houses and ate roti on the premises they had sharda and prem regardless of if they were monaie, just because one is mona does not mean they automatically smoke or drink that kind of assumption causes divisions thats another reason chardi-kalah won't be happening, because we vilify them.. anyway I don't want to get into that. We both gracefully discussed this topic like always and let readers decide for themselves.!!

[Singh559]

I think you're both right (N30S1NGH + bijla singh)

Great discussion!

[luckysingh99]

Can someone kindly explain how bibek practice is pure gurmat and that it doesn't fuel haumai in any way ??

I'm being serious!!

[luckysingh99]

Correct me if im wrong but rehit acts as a bowl that naam can be kept in. People who have no rehit find it really hard to control the 5 vices. And if you have a strong rehit then the naam kamayi is easier to accumulate. Personally I need to practice bibek rehit so I don't find it hard to get myself out of bed and do 5 ishnaana before kirtan sohila

I don't understand how bibek rehit can make it easier to control 5 vices, when bibek itself is a contributer to 'haumai' and ego.!!

[singhgsingh]

But veer ji, can't someone adopt rehat without taking Amrit?

Forsaking food from non-amritdharis is not the rehat of Guru Sahib.

Do you keep full Bibek? Can you explain what blessings you have received?

Why is keeping Bibek Rehat not the rehat of the Guru?

Can someone kindly explain how bibek practice is pure gurmat and that it doesn't fuel haumai in any way ??

I'm being serious!!

Read this:

http://www.sikhanswers.com/rehat-maryada-code-of-conduct/why-are-some-sikhs-strict-about-who-prepares-the-food-they-eat/