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AKJ Dasam Granth Kirtan


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Both those videos are actually from UK smagams/UK kirtani, and yet apparently you are saying AKJ UK are against DG. Just saying!

Dr. Trilochan Singh associate of Bhai sahib has writer in favour of DG, but his work also states that it is inappropriate to do parallel parkash, which as far as I am aware is the same view AKJ UK has, which incidentally is also in line with Akal takhat marayada.

So please refrain from making false baseless accusations every so often, unless they have explicitly said se they don't believe in DG...?

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Both those videos are actually from UK smagams/UK kirtani, and yet apparently you are saying AKJ UK are against DG. Just saying!

Dr. Trilochan Singh associate of Bhai sahib has writer in favour of DG, but his work also states that it is inappropriate to do parallel parkash, which as far as I am aware is the same view AKJ UK has, which incidentally is also in line with Akal takhat marayada.

So please refrain from making false baseless accusations every so often, unless they have explicitly said se they don't believe in DG...?

No one has talked about parkash of Dasam Granth here. So let us not stray from the core issues.Moreover give us reference of Dr tirlochan singh's works where he said so. I know his son very well. As far as he knows Dr Tirlochan singh did not write anything about this since parkash of Dasam granth on sikh takhats was part of old maryada.

Now coming to akj uk unit, whom are we fooling here.It is well known that most of the office bearers are camp followers Dhundha and ragi darshan. We also know the agenda of darshan ragi and dhundha. It is also a fact that there was a statement from akj uk

recently siding openly with dhundha.

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I remember a few years ago when I went Khalsa Camp, a few Singh's got up and left the Diwan during Amritvela, waited outside and then came back in again. This was a regular occurrence with the same Singh's. Do some AKJ have different nitnem?!

(I remember someone saying to me it had something to do with Dasam Granth Banis... I didnt pay much attention at the time but now I'm curious!)

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The fact is that there are self styled akj sects abroad who do not believe in all banis of Dasam granth.

Examples are administrator of akj.org, akj Uk unit etc. On the other hand akj singhs for example from

California, tapoban singhs and akj india are firm believers in entirety of Dasam granth sahib.

To raise finger on any bani of Dasam Granth sahib is to disown legacy of Bhai sahib bhai randhir singh

ji and ultimately of tenth master.

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No one has talked about parkash of Dasam Granth here. So let us not stray from the core issues.Moreover give us reference of Dr tirlochan singh's works where he said so. I know his son very well. As far as he knows Dr Tirlochan singh did not write anything about this since parkash of Dasam granth on sikh takhats was part of old maryada.

Now coming to akj uk unit, whom are we fooling here.It is well known that most of the office bearers are camp followers Dhundha and ragi darshan. We also know the agenda of darshan ragi and dhundha. It is also a fact that there was a statement from akj uk

recently siding openly with dhundha.

Please provide the following;

1. Evidence where AKJ UK EXPLICITLY say they don't believe in DG bani.

2. Where in the dhunda press release they say they support Dhunda?

Re: dr. Trilochan Singh, their family is very good friends of outs and I know Anurag Singh well. Regarding his take on DG:

See http://www.globalgurmat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-History-and-Compilation-of-the-Dasm-Granth.pdf

In 1896 leaders of the Singh Sabha movement found that copies of the Dasam Granth began to differ in the spelling of words. As the copyists knew only Panjabi and not Hindi and Persian they made many mistakes in writing these languages. So a committee of scholars was appointed which prepared an edition to be printed for the first time. They collected some 32 old texts of the Dasam Granth, but they unfortunately left the proof reading to the printers Messrs, Gulab Singh & Sons who in printing have made countless errors which even distort the meaning of the original. Either the scholars who prepared this or the publishers have made two grievous errors:

 They have written on the title page "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Dasam Patshahi" which seems to be a distortion of Dasam Patshahi ka Granth which is found on most of the old recensions. This Granth was not installed as a guru so it is wrong to call it Guru Granth.

 The first verse of the 33 swayas: jagat jot japai nis basar, has been omitted.

This implies that DG is not out guru and should be considered as such, which certain factions are going around claiming.

Actions of a few individuals don't necessarily mean the whole jatha has the same view.

Like dhumma sitting in badals charan giving him ladoo, and changing the printing of Manglacharan, should we say the whole of DDT is corrupt?

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Please provide the following;

1. Evidence where AKJ UK EXPLICITLY say they don't believe in DG bani.

2. Where in the dhunda press release they say they support Dhunda?

Re: dr. Trilochan Singh, their family is very good friends of outs and I know Anurag Singh well. Regarding his take on DG:

See http://www.globalgurmat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-History-and-Compilation-of-the-Dasm-Granth.pdf

In 1896 leaders of the Singh Sabha movement found that copies of the Dasam Granth began to differ in the spelling of words. As the copyists knew only Panjabi and not Hindi and Persian they made many mistakes in writing these languages. So a committee of scholars was appointed which prepared an edition to be printed for the first time. They collected some 32 old texts of the Dasam Granth, but they unfortunately left the proof reading to the printers Messrs, Gulab Singh & Sons who in printing have made countless errors which even distort the meaning of the original. Either the scholars who prepared this or the publishers have made two grievous errors:

 They have written on the title page "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Dasam Patshahi" which seems to be a distortion of Dasam Patshahi ka Granth which is found on most of the old recensions. This Granth was not installed as a guru so it is wrong to call it Guru Granth.

 The first verse of the 33 swayas: jagat jot japai nis basar, has been omitted.

This implies that DG is not out guru and should be considered as such, which certain factions are going around claiming.

Actions of a few individuals don't necessarily mean the whole jatha has the same view.

Like dhumma sitting in badals charan giving him ladoo, and changing the printing of Manglacharan, should we say the whole of DDT is corrupt?

No body says that Dasam Granth is our Guru. The above is about a mistake in printing by Gulab singh and sons.It does not talk about parallel parkash of Dasam Granth sahib as you were alleging.

I have given you enough references wherein akj.org and akj uk dispute authenticity of Dasam granth sahib.Do not you read what is being posted.Did not you read the cooment here

quote

Fantastic work brothers.

I hope AKJ London is being shown this blog, they need educating the most esp Akj Southall and Akj Slough.

Some are staunchly against Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani openly and supporting the likes of Sarbjit Dhunda (Esp Onkar Singh and his Father Jaswant Singh).

Big problem for the panth!

unquote

For your reference as you may not be knowing, Anurag singh has old manuscript of Dasam granth shaib at his home that he has kept with great respect and accords special status to bani of Dasam pita.Only a gurnindak will raise non issues such as parkash of dasam granth sahib.

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This is where katha of sri dasam granth comes in. I think its about time, akj and other panthic gurdwaras invite sri dasam granth scholars such- gyani sher singh ji among others in their samagams or sanjha samagams to bring awareness/education of sri dasam patsah bani. Classification of banis in sri dasam granth is different than classification in sri guru granth sahib- nirole dhur ki bani, they are comparing apples and oranges here

I wrote this long time ago:

VahiguroojikakhalsaVahiguroojikifateh Ji,


This thread will give further structure of methodology framework in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. After watching discussions on forums and taking notes of many debates/discussions of both pro and against stance on sri dasam granth sahib ji videos on youtube, forum discussions and sri dasam granth sahib ji websites I came to an opnion (which surely should be corrected by learned gursikhs if my opinions are wrong) that more and more debate of sri dasam granth sahib happening these days are based on two mindset.

First mindset believes in certain compositions in sri dasam granth sahib ji cannot be included by sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj because its not mukhvak patsah dasvein (dhur ki bani). They claim according to their own mat(dangerous mindset) that sri guru gobind singh ji would never include banis which are just tales of demon yudh, men and women.

Second mindset believes in giving an knee <banned word filter activated> response to the people who have first mindset that certain banis like chaubis avtar, chandi di //, treh charitar are mukhvak of patsah dasvein (dhur ki bani) in lack of understanding. People who belong to second mindset are definitely not in majority but lately these are observations i came across from youtube videos, forum discussions etc.

I personally don't have iota of knowledge in sri dasam granth sahib...with that mentality, I went to an learned gyani ji who spent 14+ years of learning not just sikh scriptures, historical granths but other dharamic granths as well from various puratan samparda's. I shared my opinion with him. He shared his sentiments with me which were same, how both pro and anti dasam granth campaign have seem to go around in circles and in circles because of lack of understanding of "methodological framework in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji'.

Allow me to share some important methodological framework with examples in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji which was shared by gyani ji-

1. Dhur Ki Bani Rachna of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji - This rachna is Dhur Ki bani is the banis came from core heart of dasam guru maharaj or came from full anubhav parkash of sri dasam guru maharaj. For eg.. Banis like- Jaap Sahib, Sri Akaal Ustat, Shabad Hazaare, Gyan parbodh, Bachitar Natak.

2. Sutantar Anubhadith Bani Rachna of Sri Dasam Granth sahib ji- This type of rachna is translations of previous compositions written by many tapavasi rishi, munis which in this care were translated by sri dasam patsah. For example- It's well known fact with in academics 405 tales in treh charitar are translated from previous various compositions, one granth being panch tantar, its also well known fact within in academics that many avtars from Chaubis Avtars compositions are directly translated by sri dasam patsah from Sri Bhagvad, Vishnu Puran.

3. Gur Asa Misrat Anubhadith Rachna of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji- This type of rachna means where one explain his/her own stance/beleif/thoughts/sidhant before compositions being translated kinda like commentary. In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, sri guru gobind singh ji had this type of rachna as well, specifically in sri dasam granth sahib for example- composition named chandi di // reflects this type of rachna. If one studies chandi di //- sri guru gobind singh ji has given gurmat sidhant in the first(bhaugati ki //) and second pauri of chandi di //. Both pauries is Salutations (Namaskar) to Sri Akaal Purkh. Then if one looks at the third pauri, its preface of chandi di //. Finally then fourth pauri of Chandi Di // is composition directly translated in punjabi taken from 757 stanza of source "Markandai Puran" all the way to last stanza of markandai puratan.

Both the mindset (one being pro and other being against sri dasam granth sahib) have couple of things in common, they are both on one extreme or another. If on one is sitting on extreme of rejection, insecurity, hindu paranoia, ignorance then other is sitting on extreme of deception, insecurities, shying away from facts because of their personal hindu paranoia that they would end up judging guru's mat by their own one line translations without studying any theological/methodological frame work, socio-religious, figures and movement contexts. Their dangerous mindsets are very very common.. it's just one is anti dasam granth sahib by using that mindset, and other using the same mindset is pro sri dasam granth sahib ji.

Anyway, thats it from me.

just a reminder : Don't shoot the messenger please...:roll: Please discuss the message.

Here is another quick intro on types of banis in sri dasam granth sahib:

Within the Dasam guru granth, there can be found three main types of scripture:
1. 'Amrit Mai Bani' (translates as 'Immortal scripture'). This is type of scripture talks of spiritual matters only like the Adi Guru Durbar.
2. 'Yudh Mai Bani' (translates as 'War scripture'). This type of scripture talks of warfare that is in the most part mythological, however, in 'Bachitter Nattak', the Guru tells of his own battle experiences.
3. 'Sansar Mai Abbeck dee Bani' (translates as the 'worldly scripture of Ignorance').The largest portion of Dasam Guru Durbar is 'Treh Chrittar' also known as 'Charitropakhyan' meaning 'the wiles of women'.
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