Modesty & Hypersexualization Is The Same Thing

[GyanParbodh]

Cultures that endorse modesty and cultures that endorse hypersexualization are the *same* thing. Both define female sexuality by how it relates to the male gaze. In both cases the female body exists as an ornament either to be kept carefully hidden or put on display. Neither is empowering for women.

[Jonny101]

I think we should stop interpreting modesty from the western feminist perspective and think of modesty from perspective of Gurmat. A sikh woman should not follow modern western fashion trends of showing off her figure. Covering of the head and body is Gurmat concept of modesty. This is the example set by the wives daughters and sisters of the Gurus and should be followed by Sikh women today.

[HSD2]

Maybe men should just get over themselves and be able to control their lust regardless of what women wear.

[N30S1NGH]

What you said is correct Gyan Parbodh according to western standards. However, what under pins both hypersexualization and modesty is simple spiritual sikh life and raj jog when its needed.

Gurmat is all about striking a right balance. Gurmat is neither this right wing sharia type machoism nor it's left wing hippy liberalism. We are not sunni muslims who promotes certain dress code for women like burqa, niqab with sharia police dictating or enforcing it (not talking about dastar here- please don't take me wrong way) but at the same time we are NOT hippy liberals feminist which promotes- revealing,skimpy or tight clothing all in the justification of "empowerment of woman"

Gurmat supports empowerment of women but *not* in a form of western feminism standards. Gurmat supports empowerment of women while upholding modesty dressing or simple satoguni life and rajoguni life style when its needed to adapt according to individual circumstances in personal life and besides khalsa has royalty aspect of it which cannot be ignored. Khalsa is raj rishiya da panth..!!!

Prem sumarag granth is consider one of most progressive yet puratan granth when it comes to living your life socially. Every gristhi sikh and sikhs in general should read it in its totality. It talks about how sikh should live its life socially based on circumstances and adapt to circumstances -gunas- satoguni, rajoguni, even tamoguni diet(based on circumstances-nihang living in jungles etc).

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

Waheguru Jeo, here is Steek of Saruktavali Granth which is relevant to this topic, some of you may find this an interesting read:

[VanHelsingh]

What really rankles me about hypersexualism is the females who defend it with such ferocity! These are girls and women who are intelligent (at least in an academic sense), and in their attempts to "stick it to the man" over issues of male control, etc., they completely sell themselves short by arguing they have a right to appear in whichever salacious manner they desire.

In their hot-headed indignation at not being liberty to any kind of male dictats, I think they've gone and got their wires crossed somewhere along the way. It surely is a case of the lady doth protest too much, lol.

[N30S1NGH]

What really rankles me about hypersexualism is the females who defend it with such ferocity! These are girls and women who are intelligent (at least in an academic sense), and in their attempts to "stick it to the man" over issues of male control, etc., they completely sell themselves short by arguing they have a right to appear in whichever salacious manner they desire.

In their hot-headed indignation at not being liberty to any kind of male dictats, I think they've gone and got their wires crossed somewhere along the way. It surely is a case of the lady doth protest too much, lol.

Exactly, they don't realize they are being used as mere chess peace/used as barbie dolls there to be entertained by wider capitalized sexist society. They themselves need to realize that their woman imagery is being used , abused and destroyed by this systematic sexualization of women in today era all under expense of woman, all under garb of "feminism", "woman empowerment".

Ever wondered how simple natural mother- breast feeding to her child in public causes uproar in western society perceived as deaming and uncomfortable act in public, where as systematic sexualization of women is not and woman natural act-breast feeding to her child in public is being considered as "perverted"...something is wrong with our western soceity when it comes to treating "women" again all under soo called in marketing women feminism and all under emotionally charged slogans -empowerment of women..true feminist should have natural tendacies and true feminist should be against - soceity using woman and woman being used by media/soceity in all forms including left agenda -"sexualization of woman", right agenda- "control of woman" by sexist right wing machos not just one..!!

[Only five]

Cultures that endorse modesty and cultures that endorse hypersexualization are the *same* thing. Both define female sexuality by how it relates to the male gaze. In both cases the female body exists as an ornament either to be kept carefully hidden or put on display. Neither is empowering for women.

Which cultures are you referring to here when speaking about both? So a woman that is properly clothed (not hidden) is not empowered? It's funny you use the word hidden here, but I guess it goes along with your overly subjective term ornament when it comes to modesty. With no doubt hypersexualization parades women around like an ornament. But modesty does not work in the same way. When speaking about modesty women cloth themselves properly because they respect their body. If a male finds a properly clothed woman attractive, then the culture that endorses modesty has not clothed the women to stop male gazes. I'm put it in another way, not all males find the same thing attractive, hence making it impossible for a culture to endorse modesty on the basis of male gazes.

Cultures do tell women to cover themselves to prevent males looking, but this does not mean the culture is endorsing modesty whatsoever. Clear example of this is the Muslims by covering the women up completely. Modesty is decency of dress, what decency is left when the woman is completely covered? So such cultures don't speak of modesty, but covering up so the women is unseen.

I shouldn't say punjabi culture, but many punjabis be them Muslim, Hindus, or Sikhs teach their daugthers not to cover up, but be properly clothed, which shows modesty. Covering up doesn't represent modesty and neither does letting it all hang out. Modesty is something different.

[GtLoc]

Which cultures are you referring to here when speaking about both? So a woman that is properly clothed (not hidden) is not empowered? It's funny you use the word hidden here, but I guess it goes along with your overly subjective term ornament when it comes to modesty. With no doubt hypersexualization parades women around like an ornament. But modesty does not work in the same way. When speaking about modesty women cloth themselves properly because they respect their body. If a male finds a properly clothed woman attractive, then the culture that endorses modesty has not clothed the women to stop male gazes. I'm put it in another way, not all males find the same thing attractive, hence making it impossible for a culture to endorse modesty on the basis of male gazes.

Cultures do tell women to cover themselves to prevent males looking, but this does not mean the culture is endorsing modesty whatsoever. Clear example of this is the Muslims by covering the women up completely. Modesty is decency of dress, what decency is left when the woman is completely covered? So such cultures don't speak of modesty, but covering up so the women is unseen.

I shouldn't say punjabi culture, but many punjabis be them Muslim, Hindus, or Sikhs teach their daugthers not to cover up, but be properly clothed, which shows modesty. Covering up doesn't represent modesty and neither does letting it all hang out. Modesty is something different.

Modesty isn't the right word is it? More like just herself..

Why don't dudes get over what someone else is wearing?