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Mehtab Singh

Jat Sikhs seek OBC status in Punjab

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WSL "Jatts beat the crap out of some poor "choora" like its some sport back in the day" --Highlighted the bit you obviously missed.

Obviously I have blinkers on and making up stuff when even youtube clips show how Jatts treat non Jatts... and even if I was to post the names of Jatt Gurdwaray that discriminate non-Jatts you would think I was making it up...o come on are you now even denying Jatt/Lubana power struggles that have been publicised. Once again you seriously think there is no Jatt Gurdwaray you live in bloomin West London!!!! Why do you think Ramgharia, Chamars etc opened up thier own Gurdwaray?! Did the Jatt Gurdwara welcome them with open arms?!?

How about read some independent research... Sikhs in Europe by Knut Jacobsen 2011 that will highlight several Jatt Gurdwaray that discriminable other castes... or are they just making it up as well?

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WSL "Jatts beat the crap out of some poor "choora" like its some sport back in the day" --Highlighted the bit you obviously missed.

Obviously I have blinkers on and making up stuff when even youtube clips show how Jatts treat non Jatts... and even if I was to post the names of Jatt Gurdwaray that discriminate non-Jatts you would think I was making it up...o come on are you now even denying Jatt/Lubana power struggles that have been publicised. Once again you seriously think there is no Jatt Gurdwaray you live in bloomin West London!!!! Why do you think Ramgharia, Chamars etc opened up thier own Gurdwaray?! Did the Jatt Gurdwara welcome them with open arms?!?

How about read some independent research... Sikhs in Europe by Knut Jacobsen 2011 that will highlight several Jatt Gurdwaray that discriminable other castes... or are they just making it up as well?

There is no Gurdwara called "Jatt so and so gurdwara", but there are plenty of Gurdwaras called Ramgarhia, Labana, whatever.

You make it sound like Non-jatts aren't allowed in certain gurdwaras. I'm not talking about the pindh in Punjab. I'm talking about Western countries. If a non-Jatt walks into a "Jatt Gurdwara" do you think alarms are gonna go off? Are they gonna grab you and throw you out? No they won't! Do you have your caste written on your forehead?? Even if you did, it wouldn't matter.

It has to do with committees that run the gurdwaras. Unfortunately they are caste based, but to go and make your own gurdwara based on your own caste isn't solving the problem! I don't know why you can't understand this.

If Jatts discriminate against you, then why do you have to discriminate against each other? Bania vs Kamboj vs Tarkhan vs Labana vs whatever. Are Jatts forbidding you guys from mixing with each other? Give me a break!!

Edited by Sherdil

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...It's nice for you to say "fix yourselves first". Very nice indeed. But when the majority community are refusing to give up the caste-based prejudices, what chance has the guy from a 'smaller community'? Let me give you a clear example: when a guy asked what my surname was, I say "Singh", if he's jat he'll say "no, whats ur real surname? If you dont write it after ur name or u don't want to tell me, then it means you're not a jat and you're from a low-caste (his words) and therefore you're hiding something by not telling me what caste you're from!" Make no mistake, thats the mentality we are dealing with.

I find it amusing how whenever I avoid telling anyone my surname (just to pee them off as I don't like the kind of attitude and mentality of people you've highlighted above) some of these guys come out with "You're going out with one (i.e. a non-Jatt female), aren't you?". :lol2:

How they make that connection is beyond me. The reason I'm deliberately avoiding the question is because I want to see you squirm, lol! I think they reflect what they get up to themselves onto others because it's beyond them that some Sikhs aren't preoccupied with caste.

Edited by Kaljugi

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These discussion are so amusing. Here is one government robbing all people regardless of their caste and now you got the internet warriors at each others necks. What don't you get.............this is not some pin the tail on the donkey game. Each caste is the donkey. Whoever the government can use they do. As soon as they are done with their services then their put you out on the streets. Badal used the jatts to there max capcity. Now he has no use for them, so they are left in the gutter. The rest can have a good laugh and enjoy their chicken and beer sitting at their oppressed retail stores and oppressed government jobs............a drunk police office ask for money..........han ji han ji sardar ji here is my roti for the evening. It's a continious cycle, which will only end once common sense hits all caste in punjab across the head. The mantra is.............work toegether to get all of the people in punjab to be stable.

But Badal out smarts all these caste and makes sure they stay divided. In the 80s Badal got caste to split up when Punjab had a leader, who would have gave freedom to Punjab. But now these caste have no leader whatsoever and now they want to run their mouth. What are you happy about? The jatts......the bread and butter of Punjab has hit the ground? Maybe it's time to revisit the dictionary and look up what victory means.

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But Badal out smarts all these caste and makes sure they stay divided. In the 80s Badal got caste to split up when Punjab had a leader, who would have gave freedom to Punjab. But now these caste have no leader whatsoever and now they want to run their mouth. What are you happy about? The jatts......the bread and butter of Punjab has hit the ground? Maybe it's time to revisit the dictionary and look up what victory means.

Not at all. Badal is an shining example of exactly the type of selfish, status, money obsessed jat mentality people are complaining about.

Earlier some wally made the point about saint ji and his background. Well my response is that Sant ji never EVER exhibited those typical jat traits that have brought jats to their knees today. Sant ji lived humbly and served the panth, todays jat thinks he is some sort of born king. Sant ji lived an austere life, todays jat wants all mod cons and feels jealously suicidal at the next man's wealth. Sant ji hated 'whisky, shisky drinking sardars', todays jats are largely 'whisky shishky drinking sardars'. Sant ji hated based, foolish 'folk songs' and bhangra culture- todays jat argues that these things are jat culture itself.

if jats are complaining about Panjab - then they should also take note at who have been at the helm of its leadership uncontested for ages now - fellow jats. Says it all.

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Not at all. Badal is an shining example of exactly the type of selfish, status, money obsessed jat mentality people are complaining about.

Earlier some wally made the point about saint ji and his background. Well my response is that Sant ji never EVER exhibited those typical jat traits that have brought jats to their knees today. Sant ji lived humbly and served the panth, todays jat thinks he is some sort of born king. Sant ji lived an austere life, todays jat wants all mod cons and feels jealously suicidal at the next man's wealth. Sant ji hated 'whisky, shisky drinking sardars', todays jats are largely 'whisky shishky drinking sardars'. Sant ji hated based, foolish 'folk songs' and bhangra culture- todays jat argues that these things are jat culture itself.

if jats are complaining about Panjab - then they should also take note at who have been at the helm of its leadership uncontested for ages now - fellow jats. Says it all.

Wow...the height of ignorance. You wear it with such pride!

I brought up Sant ji to show that not all Jatts are the same. I'm not bragging that he was from my caste. It's your inferiority complex blinding you again!

If Punjab is going down the drain, it's because of the Indian govt. They've taken our water, and made us grow rice and wheat at marginal prices to feed the rest of the country. But go ahead. Keep blaming Jatts. It makes you feel better for any injustice you think you've suffed. Why don't you sign up for the Congress Party while you're at it.

Jatts are not on their knees. The ones with big land holdings are doing better than okay. They don't even farm anymore. They lease the land to small farmers or they have sold their land a long time ago. It's the small farmers who never got theirs during the Green Revolution, who are suffering.

I pray that you never see a Non-jatt drinking alcohol or doing drugs. It just might be too much for you to handle and burst the little bubble you are living in. As a matter of fact, don't ever leave your house. This way your warped view of the world will remain intact.

Edited by Sherdil

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Sant ji hated based, foolish 'folk songs' and bhangra culture- todays jat argues that these things are jat culture itself.

It's a real shame that Bhangra culture has now become part of the modern Jat culture. So much so that many Jats actually think that this is part of the old authentic Jat culture. Little do they realize how they are laying claim to Kanjar and Marasee culture as their own. During olden times no self respecting Jat would dance like a Kanjar or sing like a marasee that the modern Jats have now begun to do when they rajkay drink sharaab. Worst thing is that modern Jats do not even feel the least bit of shame when they allow the women of their family to dance in front of and with other men. Since the last 6 to 7 decades the old authentic chivalrous Jat culture is no more. All we are left with today is Kanjar culture that is proudly being passed off as authentic Jat culture.

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Sherdil,

Ok, I've gone back to re-read your post Sherdil. I admit, I initially did read it as your grandparents. Like you have already clarified, your grandparents were merely saying that "other jat folks did it", not themselves, so I apologise for saying it was another poster on here (although I didn't mention your name). However, I should have read it carefully, and fair is fair, I read it incorrectly. Sorry.

However, it doesn't actually detract from the very fact that it happens/happened, as you yourself acknowledged, which is the underlying point being made. Furthermore, I stand by everything else I said in the above post.

You say blame brahmins? Every brahmin I speak to is amused that a group of people who mock hinduism for establishing the caste system now practise it themselves and infact, those same brahmins struggle to recall a bollywood song bigging up brahimins yet songs 'bigging up jats' roll off their tongues as if it was saliva ten to the dozen. Can you see why even brahmins are now frustrated that they are still getting the blame? And even more bizarrely, whilst even they acknowledge that they are pioneers of the dreaded caste-system, even they (brahmins) are mystified why their ideology is mostly strongly propogated by those aren't even hindu!

Caste-based gurdwarae are wrong. But why did they spring up? Theres no point saying they are wrong, I mean so is cancer, but it still happens...why? What is the underlying reason? Maybe the youtube video showing the disgraceful treatment the mazhbis's receive will give some insight into why they would prefer to be treated with diginity and respect. If they, and others, feel the only way to achieve this is to set up a seperate gurdwara, then what am I to say to him? "No, you can't establish your own (insert any non-jatt caste name here) gurdwara, but you must continue to be treated as a second-class Sikh in a "one-for-all" gurdwara?".

Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't agree with caste-based gurdwarae, nor do I attend one, but I know why they exist.

It's nice for you to say "fix yourselves first". Very nice indeed. But when the majority community are refusing to give up the caste-based prejudices, what chance has the guy from a 'smaller community'? Let me give you a clear example: when a guy asked what my surname was, I say "Singh", if he's jat he'll say "no, whats ur real surname? If you dont write it after ur name or u don't want to tell me, then it means you're not a jat and you're from a low-caste (his words) and therefore you're hiding something by not telling me what caste you're from!" Make no mistake, thats the mentality we are dealing with.

Thats how uk is? I didnt think of the last name stuff, :S Here I think pplz dont care proly cuz its all jatts I see a few ramgarh gurudawaras. (Toronto) I havnt heqrd a caste thung in years Id hope ppl r past it but I think the older adults hide it. Last time my mom said like a chamar or sum I jus yelled at her. They usd to be like o that person good for a black person but they also aijt interact with em oike that. Dun care bout who they kids with, and w.especially

You are either wearing blinkers or are plain making things up. Never...in my entire life, have I ever ever come across a 'jatt' Gurdwara. The trouble is, because the jatts are the majority, the other groups naturally feel overwhelmed. They find that overwhelming feeling difficult to deal with so develop a misguided feeling of being sidelined. The jatts only crime then, is that he is large in numbers. That's not his fault. Judging by what you and others here have written you obviously have something like 500 examples of 'Jatt Gurdwaras'. What I'd like you to do then is this : Narrow your long list of 500 down to 3. Just give us the names of 3 'Jatt' Gurdwaras. Tell us their names and address' and we will sort it out.

Go on son......................just 3. That's all I'm asking you for .........

And "beating the crap out of a poor churha" ???? :stupidme: See this is when I know how little you actually know about Punjab these days. With the mass emigration of jatt Sikhs from rural Punjab the situation there has, for at least the last 2 decades, been exactly the opposite of what you said. Ask anyone from rural Punjab these days and they'll tell you that the one golden rule for all is that you should never ever....NEVER.....pick a fight with a chura. Nobody ever does because within the hour the entire bridarari of local churhe will gather for a mass brawl. It is churhe that regularly "beat the crap" out of others, rightly or wrongly, in rural Punjab these days.

So....anyway......go on then. You make out that jatt gurdwaras are as common as bees on a summers day.........so just give us a simple list of 3 ?

A group that has privelge has the privelge lol of being the defauot. When police say blah blah descrip. No race menrion mean white boi. Every noncaste gurudawara is a jatt one except for the sikh gurudawaras. Its jus kaami ppl tryna get weaoth to buy wives so they aint gives n up their post and caste based circle. An avg jatt wont get in either but has more opp. And easier chance.

There is no Gurdwara called "Jatt so and so gurdwara", but there are plenty of Gurdwaras called Ramgarhia, Labana, whatever.

You make it sound like Non-jatts aren't allowed in certain gurdwaras. I'm not talking about the pindh in Punjab. I'm talking about Western countries. If a non-Jatt walks into a "Jatt Gurdwara" do you think alarms are gonna go off? Are they gonna grab you and throw you out? No they won't! Do you have your caste written on your forehead?? Even if you did, it wouldn't matter.

It has to do with committees that run the gurdwaras. Unfortunately they are caste based, but to go and make your own gurdwara based on your own caste isn't solving the problem! I don't know why you can't understand this.

If Jatts discriminate against you, then why do you have to discriminate against each other? Bania vs Kamboj vs Tarkhan vs Labana vs whatever. Are Jatts forbidding you guys from mixing with each other? Give me a break!!

The older comm. May still have stuff bout marriages in gurudawaras but it is bout comm. Which is good cuz most ppl hate comitte as much as gov. So thatll chance. I called gurudawqra comitte and it wqs an entirely foreign sounding thing n It wqs separate feom feel of gurudawara. Makes sense, I found out here its brit shitstem.

I find it amusing how whenever I avoid telling anyone my surname (just to pee them off as I don't like the kind of attitude and mentality of people you've highlighted above) some of these guys come out with "You're going out with one (i.e. a non-Jatt female), aren't you?". :lol2:

How they make that connection is beyond me. The reason I'm deliberately avoiding the question is because I want to see you squirm, lol! I think they reflect what they get up to themselves onto others because it's beyond them that some Sikhs aren't preoccupied with caste.

I jus assume any1 using singh is being a realer sikh. I aint think about thtq angle, Idk if guys would step to me bout I chill with because thrir 'girl' will hage her eyes glued. Ppl r insecure, exploit that cuz justice for all. They wanna be weak, put em in their place and force them to bend n mend thats how u change world. U wont get horny betq men to change unless u show more power phys and spir cuz they caught up in the pursuit of women which is the opposite of nature. On touchscreen so I can elaborqte later if needbe.

These discussion are so amusing. Here is one government robbing all people regardless of their caste and now you got the internet warriors at each others necks. What don't you get.............this is not some pin the tail on the donkey game. Each caste is the donkey. Whoever the government can use they do. As soon as they are done with their services then their put you out on the streets. Badal used the jatts to there max capcity. Now he has no use for them, so they are left in the gutter. The rest can have a good laugh and enjoy their chicken and beer sitting at their oppressed retail stores and oppressed government jobs............a drunk police office ask for money..........han ji han ji sardar ji here is my roti for the evening. It's a continious cycle, which will only end once common sense hits all caste in punjab across the head. The mantra is.............work toegether to get all of the people in punjab to be stable.

But Badal out smarts all these caste and makes sure they stay divided. In the 80s Badal got caste to split up when Punjab had a leader, who would have gave freedom to Punjab. But now these caste have no leader whatsoever and now they want to run their mouth. What are you happy about? The jatts......the bread and butter of Punjab has hit the ground? Maybe it's time to revisit the dictionary and look up what victory means.

This is a true post, I think many posters here have more exp with the racial system rather than casting. And bring the two togeher but there are marked dif. And theres dkf. Ways of dealing with them. More l8r edited in.

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It's a real shame that Bhangra culture has now become part of the modern Jat culture. So much so that many Jats actually think that this is part of the old authentic Jat culture. Little do they realize how they are laying claim to Kanjar and Marasee culture as their own. During olden times no self respecting Jat would dance like a Kanjar or sing like a marasee that the modern Jats have now begun to do when they rajkay drink sharaab. Worst thing is that modern Jats do not even feel the least bit of shame when they allow the women of their family to dance in front of and with other men. Since the last 6 to 7 decades the old authentic chivalrous Jat culture is no more. All we are left with today is Kanjar culture that is proudly being passed off as authentic Jat culture.

Woman is not a thingwho you allow to things that is part of old kaami and weak thinking where man who had no woman pursuing him attempted to trap one in order to secure fertility. That is most laughabke thing Ive seen. Also most disgusting

Why r u at parties with relatives. Go hard or go home, u do that do it properly or be a sant dont be aome donkey guarding his future incest victims.

Edited by GtLoc

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Badal doesn't care what caste he is. He only cares what caste he is because it give him a leg up in the political and power hungry world. Badal has killed, robbed, rapped the same caste he is part of without dropping one drop of his blood for the Jatts.

It's clear ignorance or denial to say other caste are not power hungry or money hungry. In every enthic group, in every race group, you give them the opportunity to rise up and they will weed themselves out until the most poltically corrupt people have themselves at the top. The Akali Dals got over run by Badal and rest of the power hungry people that used their caste at an advantage. Levarage is levarage and these people will use any type of leverage to get ahead.

Here in Canada, we have Sharma, Bhapa, Ramgarhia, etc destroy their own communities by robbing, cheating, lying to them. They say we are here for your best interesting, but they only care about one interest; their own.

All humans are the same. This power struggle has happened in every community, Latinos, Italians, Jews, russians, chinese, japanese. All started by putting a line in the sand and then after they got ahead they started taking their own out for their own interest.

Badal is no different.............if he was then Jatts farms would not be desserts and jatts families would not be ripped apart by putting brother against brother and their youth lost to drugs and alcohol.

It's so sad that people purposely try to hide the facts, so Jatts can be labeled as the demon and the elites of other caste can take control and do the same to their own caste.

Only one leader of Punjab did not do this and the other caste demonized him to be a terrorist. The other caste saw him as a jatt even though he did not refer to himself as one. Sant ji helped these other caste out and they still back stabbed him and the Shaheed Singhs who stood up.

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Woman is not a thingwho you allow to things that is part of old kaami and weak thinking where man who had no woman pursuing him attempted to trap one in order to secure fertility. That is most laughabke thing Ive seen. Also most disgusting

Why r u at parties with relatives. Go hard or go home, u do that do it properly or be a sant dont be aome donkey guarding his future incest victims.

Well you can keep your feminist ideas to yourself. Women in my family are sanskaari and have self respect and we do not allow them to dance around. I don't go to parties because of the Kanjar Khana that happens there. I'm no saint, but I do try to follow Sikhi and if that offends any feminists out there, I don't care.

Edited by Jonny101

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Badal doesn't care what caste he is. He only cares what caste he is because it give him a leg up in the political and power hungry world. Badal has killed, robbed, rapped the same caste he is part of without dropping one drop of his blood for the Jatts.

What does that say about the wider jat community then? Maybe it's the way they stupidly cling to each other blindly, like tribal pendus that makes it easy for them to get used like you are suggesting?

Hell, even the British did it by inflating their egos.

Badal is no different.............if he was then Jatts farms would not be desserts and jatts families would not be ripped apart by putting brother against brother and their youth lost to drugs and alcohol.

That is complete rubbish- jat family feuds over land are a staple of jat cultural dynamics and have been for a LONG TIME. To make out like this is some new, modern phenomena just makes it look like you are in denial about the truth. As for jatts and alcohol - you seriously want to go into that? It's not for no reason that songs about jats drinking (jatt hogaya sharaabi) are best selling 'classics'.

Drugs I'd agree was a newer thing, probably a result of the failed 'war on terror' in Afghanistan, where a dislodged Taliban allowed opium growers to thrive and seriously increase output whilst the west looked the other way in fear of driving them into supporting the Taliban.

It's so sad that people purposely try to hide the facts, so Jatts can be labeled as the demon and the elites of other caste can take control and do the same to their own caste.

I doubt any other smaller group would blindly support a Badal equivalent amongst themselves like jats have done - seriously.

Only one leader of Punjab did not do this and the other caste demonized him to be a terrorist. The other caste saw him as a jatt even though he did not refer to himself as one. Sant ji helped these other caste out and they still back stabbed him and the Shaheed Singhs who stood up.

He did refer to himself as a jat actually, but not with the meaning of some big-shot, lord of the manor but rather a humble, simple peasant. There is a lot for today's jat to learn from that in my view.

Edited by dalsingh101

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OK, so were do we all go from here? What's for the future?

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^^^ I'd rather not discuss with a person who can't stop himself from swearing.

As I have proved, every community has those that will take the opportunity to exploit people for money and power. Some are just hell bent over attacking Jatts every second of the way. And for that mentality, other caste will suffer because their elites don't know how to behave or speak.

Every community has bad apples and one thing is that me, having my blood line from a Jatt family, won't sit back and let those Jatts who have worked hard to protect all caste from the same corrupt government be bad mouth by those other caste elite because simply they hate Jatts.

In the 80s these other caste elites used the common folks of these caste to go against Sant ji. Today they are using the same strategy to make the common folks go against those that are trying to help them. These elites whether Jatt, Ramgarhia, Aroa, etc in my honest opinion need to be dealt in a way where they can never expliot the common folks ever again. Send the message whoever you are, where ever you are, you can't expliot the common people anymore

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@HSD

You tell me, what do YOU think jat societies future holds unless they firstly, frankly and openly admit and acknowledge their appalling treatment of other Sikhs and give up their infantile, fantasist, supremacist worldview WHOLESALE. And this persistent denial/playing down thing like whites do with racism is just pathetic (ala WLS, Shergil and co.)

Then (shock, horror) work with and cooperate with - and even take the leadership of intelligent capable members of other nonjat (and even nonSikh) members of Panjabi society who have a strong, inclusive, progressive vision for Panjab's future that doesn't hinge heavily on farming.

Frankly - I think a failure to do this on the jat majorities part could very easily seal their fate in a very negative way - if it hasn't done so already.

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