Jump to content

Is there GOD?


Guest Human
 Share

Recommended Posts

The problem is that you guys are trying to analyze Gurbani as if it was text book knowledge of science. If you don't have faith in Gurbani, that is one thing. We don't care, we are not bothered, we won't sue you. But please don't try to disprove Gurbani using science, especially on a Sikh forum. Science may or may not be consistent. All the laws proven by science are subject to analysis, subject to change, and can be proved wrong. A Sikh is one who has unquestionable and undeterred faith in Gurbani. That doesn't mean that we don't study Gurbani, of course we do! But a true Sikh always remembers that its NOT Gurbani that has to be consistent with science, sorry, its the other way around, its science that needs to prove itself to be consistent with Gurbani.
Let me ask you guys. All these scientists you talk about, who are they? They are normal human beings who read and studied books written by other normal human beings. They carried out various tests, conducted various experiments, spent their whole lives in extensive researches and came to a number of conclusions about several aspects of science. Fair enough, well done! We are today very grateful to them for making efforts in order to better our lives, no doubt.
Now look at Gurbani. Many of those Bhagats who stated a number of facts of nature in Gurbani were actually illiterate, possibly couldn't even read or write. What is your take on that? Would you call such people normal? Would you call Their words normal? They did not read tons of scientific books, did not carry out any tests or conduct any experiments. They did not perform any extensive researches to arrive at any conclusion either. Guru Sahib Himself said there are galaxies upon galaxies and He had no telescope. So how do you dispute or question Their words?
Here is a gist of what I could gather from Dr. Udhoke's video on Sikhi vs science
Big Bang
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 3 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ ਏਕੋ ਕਵਾਉ ॥
You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word!
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 839 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਅੰਡਜ ਫੋੜਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਵਿਛੋੜਿ ॥
Breaking the cosmic egg, He united, and separated.
When did creation start?
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 4 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.
Air causing chemical reactions prior to creation of life
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 19 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
From the True Lord came the air, and from the air came water.
ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ ॥
From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light.
Moon reflects light of the sun
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 943 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਸਸਿ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਿਟੈ ਅੰਧਿਆਰਾ ॥
When the sun dwells in the house of the moon, the darkness is dispelled.
What was there before any creation?
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 1035 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਅਰਬਦ ਨਰਬਦ ਧੁੰਧੂਕਾਰਾ ॥
For endless eons, there was only utter darkness.
ਧਰਣਿ ਨ ਗਗਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam.
ਨਾ ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਨ ਚੰਦੁ ਨ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਲਗਾਇਦਾ ॥੧॥
There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound Samaadhi. ||1||
Darwin's theory of evolution
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 176 - Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj
ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||
4 types of creation - Chaupai Sahib in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee - Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj
ਅੰਡਜ ਜੇਰਜ ਸੇਤਜ ਕੀਨੀ ॥ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਖਾਨਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਰਚਿ ਦੀਨੀ ॥੩੯੪॥
He created creatures from eggs, wombs and perspiration; then He created the vegetable kingdom.394.
Planets attraction, black hole theory - Chaupai Sahib in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee - Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj
ਜਬ ਉਦਕਰਖ ਕਰਾ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਧਰਤ ਤਬ ਦੇਹ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
When the Creator projected Himself, His creation manifested itself in innumerable forms;
ਜਬ ਆਕਰਖ ਕਰਤ ਹੋ ਕਬਹੂੰ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਤ ਦੇਹ ਧਰ ਸਭਹੂੰ ॥੩੮੯॥
When at any time He withdraws His creation, all the physical forms are merged in Him.389.
Death of stars/planets, everything ends in water - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee - Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj
ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਆਗ ਤੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਕੋਟਿ ਆਗ ਉਠੈ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਆਗ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥
Just as millions of sparks are created from the fire; although they are different entities, they merge in the same fire.
ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਤੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਪੂਰਤ ਹੈ ਧੂਰਿ ਕੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਫੇਰ ਧੂਰਿ ਹਿ ਸਮਾਹਿਂਗੇ
Just as from of waves are created on the surface of the big rivers and all the waves are called water.
ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਨਦ ਤੇ ਤੰਰਗ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਜਤ ਹੈਂ ਪਾਨਿ ਕੇ ਤਰੰਗ ਸਬੈ ਪਾਨਿ ਹੀ ਕਹਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥
Similarly the animate and inanimate objects come out of the Supreme Lord; having been created from the same Lord, they merge in the same Lord. 17.87.
Sun is shrinking - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 1354
Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj
ਘਟੰਤ ਰੂਪੰ ਘਟੰਤ ਦੀਪੰ ਘਟੰਤ ਰਵਿ ਸਸੀਅਰ ਨਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਤ੍ਰ ਗਗਨੰ ॥
Beauty fades away, islands fade away, the sun, moon, stars and sky fade away.
ਘਟੰਤ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਗਿਰਿ ਤਰ ਸਿਖੰਡੰ ॥
The earth, mountains, forests and lands fade away.
Gravity
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 228 - Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj
ਡੋਲੁ ਬਧਾ ਕਸਿ ਜੇਵਰੀ ਆਕਾਸਿ ਪਤਾਲਾ ॥੬॥
Like the bucket tied to the rope in the well, you are pulled up to the Akaashic Ethers, and then lowered down to the nether regions of the underworld. ||6||
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, thus potential difference of earth is zero
Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee - Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj
ਜਿਮੀ ਜਮਾਨ ਕੇ ਬਿਖੈ ਸਮਸਤ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ॥
Within all the earth and sky, there is only one Light.
ਨ ਘਾਟ ਹੈ ਨ ਬਾਢ ਹੈ ਨ ਘਾਟ ਬਾਢ ਹੋਤ ਹੈ ॥
Which neither decreases nor increases in any being, It never decreases or increases.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 272 - Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਏਕ ॥ T
he God-conscious being has a steady patience,
ਜਿਉ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਕੋਊ ਖੋਦੈ ਕੋਊ ਚੰਦਨ ਲੇਪ ॥
like the earth, which is dug up by one, and anointed with sandal paste by another.
Energy transfer: Grass has energy, eaten by cattle, then energy goes to milk, and from milk finally into butter.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Ang 617 - Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj
ਸਗਲ ਬਨਸਪਤਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਦੂਧ ਮਹਿ ਘੀਆ ॥
Fire is contained in all firewood, and butter is contained in all milk.
ਊਚ ਨੀਚ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਮਾਧਉ ਜੀਆ ॥੧॥
God's Light is contained in the high and the low; the Lord is in the hearts of all beings. ||1||
These are just minor translations done by certain hardworking individuals as a devoted effort to assist the masses in understanding the interpretations of Gurbani. However, at times they do not do complete justice to the gems and priceless secrets of knowledge that Gurbani contains. A lot of further extensive study and research needs to be done, and what I have presented here is only the tip of the iceberg. I came across several other references towards scientific facts that the Guru Sahibaan blessed us with centuries ago and which science is discovering only today. Indeed, Sikhi doesn't need to be consistent with science, but in fact science today is attempting to be in accordance with Gurbani.
Its very easy in today's free world to write as many books on science and philosophy as one pleases. Its a pastime and even fashion to question faith under the garb of logical/rational thinking. Gurbani is priceless because it was recited and written at the risk of losing one's life, and Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj is the prime example. Please let us know how many scientists in present times have been punished, tortured, tormented or sentenced for proposing theories that go against a particular religion, how many have been killed the way Guru Sahib attained Shaheedi?
You can read this book regarding science and Sikhi. I have skimmed through a bit and liked it:
I would like to end this post with the following funny incident...
An Atheist Professor of Philosophy was speaking to his Class on the Problem Science has with GOD, the ALMIGHTY.
He asked one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . .
Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor :So, you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?
(Student was silent )
Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella.Is GOD Good?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . . . GOD . . .
Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And GOD did make everything Correct?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ?
(Student did not answer)
Professor : Is there Sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?
(Student had no answer)
Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you. Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
Professor : Yes,Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn't.
(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )
Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat.But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as Cold.Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat. We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy.Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.
It means there is Satan/ evil because of the absence of God.
God creates good things but it becomes bad when God is absence in it. =)
(There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )
Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness? Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir.
Darkness is the Absence of Something You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . . . But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and its called Darkness, isn't it? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, were you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality.You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought.It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it .Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )
Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavor, Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir? Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?
(The Class was in Uproar )
Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?
(The Class broke out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .No one appears to have done so.So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that You have No Brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir?
(The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . . Exactly ! The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.
Science lovers, this may not be true, but some folks believe this student was none other than one of your shining heroes Einstein!
I am not asking anyone to have blind faith. Gurbani is against it. But I am interested to know, our friends who question the eternal prevalence of Akaal Purakh Vaheguru on a Sikh forum, how much knowledge of Gurbani they have to begin with? I am curious, because I don't. I just find myself unable to question the words of my Guru. If you guys are Sikhs, please study Gurbani first, and indepth. If not, then what is your purpose behind questioning God's existence on a Sikh forum?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok in reply to the above I would like to ask what is the hope to reach god for:

one billion muslims who believe that mohammed and the koran are the path to god

1.5 billion christians who believe jesus and the bible are the path to god

1 billion hindus who believe ??? i dont really know what they believe but it isnt gurbani

20 million jews who believe the torah is the path to god

the number of jews is similar to the number of sikhs worldwide

do you believe that only those 20 - 25 million sikhs have access to the correct path to god?

and how many of them are true believers or adherents ie. pure mind, good deeds, 5Ks, meditation, prayer, hard work?

seems like a very small number to me and most of them located in one small area in a huge country on a huge continent in a huge earth.

doesnt that seem a little arrogant? doesnt it seem very selective/arbitrary?

i have heard other views a long the lines of true believers and good people, whether christian/hindu/muslim/sikh, have the chance to find god and reach their spiritual goal (whatever that maybe) anyone share these views or do most members believe sikhism is the only way?

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok in reply to the above I would like to ask what is the hope to reach god for:

one billion muslims who believe that mohammed and the koran are the path to god

1.5 billion christians who believe jesus and the bible are the path to god

1 billion hindus who believe ??? i dont really know what they believe but it isnt gurbani

20 million jews who believe the torah is the path to god

the number of jews is similar to the number of sikhs worldwide

do you believe that only those 20 - 25 million sikhs have access to the correct path to god?

and how many of them are true believers or adherents ie. pure mind, good deeds, 5Ks, meditation, prayer, hard work?

seems like a very small number to me and most of them located in one small area in a huge country on a huge continent in a huge earth.

doesnt that seem a little arrogant? doesnt it seem very selective/arbitrary?

i have heard other views a long the lines of true believers and good people, whether christian/hindu/muslim/sikh, have the chance to find god and reach their spiritual goal (whatever that maybe) anyone share these views or do most members believe sikhism is the only way?

thanks

  1. I din't say anything about Gurbani being the only way, although on a personal level as a Sikh I have 100% conviction that for me Gurbani is the one and only sole path. Others are encouraged to abide by this path as well, but if they choose not to, Guru Sahib bless them wherever they are. Besides that I only pointed out the futility to try and compare science with Gurbani.
  2. In my opinion its not a number game, so not sure why the statistics of other faiths have been highlighted.
  3. I have not put anyone down, so again not sure where is the arrogance?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please study Gurbani's message, please watch the video, please read the book. This is a Sikh forum. If you're going to question our philosophy, please atleast fulfil the prerequisites. Even in a university one has to clear preliminary courses to go onto the next course. This is the existence of God you are questioning. I'd say one has to be at par with God at His own level to question His existence.

Or Nirankaar jee, is it You Yourself who has registered on our forum to test us whether we have faith in You or not? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that you guys are trying to analyze Gurbani as if it was text book knowledge of science. If you don't have faith in Gurbani, that is one thing. We don't care, we are not bothered, we won't sue you. But please don't try to disprove Gurbani using science, especially on a Sikh forum. Science may or may not be consistent. All the laws proven by science are subject to analysis, subject to change, and can be proved wrong. A Sikh is one who has unquestionable and undeterred faith in Gurbani. That doesn't mean that we don't study Gurbani, of course we do! But a true Sikh always remembers that its NOT Gurbani that has to be consistent with science, sorry, its the other way around, its science that needs to prove itself to be consistent with Gurbani.
Let me ask you guys. All these scientists you talk about, who are they? They are normal human beings who read and studied books written by other normal human beings. They carried out various tests, conducted various experiments, spent their whole lives in extensive researches and came to a number of conclusions about several aspects of science. Fair enough, well done! We are today very grateful to them for making efforts in order to better our lives, no doubt.
Now look at Gurbani. Many of those Bhagats who stated a number of facts of nature in Gurbani were actually illiterate, possibly couldn't even read or write. What is your take on that? Would you call such people normal? Would you call Their words normal? They did not read tons of scientific books, did not carry out any tests or conduct any experiments. They did not perform any extensive researches to arrive at any conclusion either. Guru Sahib Himself said there are galaxies upon galaxies and He had no telescope. So how do you dispute or question Their words?
Here is a gist of what I could gather from Dr. Udhoke's video on Sikhi vs science
These are just minor translations done by certain hardworking individuals as a devoted effort to assist the masses in understanding the interpretations of Gurbani. However, at times they do not do complete justice to the gems and priceless secrets of knowledge that Gurbani contains. A lot of further extensive study and research needs to be done, and what I have presented here is only the tip of the iceberg. I came across several other references towards scientific facts that the Guru Sahibaan blessed us with centuries ago and which science is discovering only today. Indeed, Sikhi doesn't need to be consistent with science, but in fact science today is attempting to be in accordance with Gurbani.
Its very easy in today's free world to write as many books on science and philosophy as one pleases. Its a pastime and even fashion to question faith under the garb of logical/rational thinking. Gurbani is priceless because it was recited and written at the risk of losing one's life, and Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj is the prime example. Please let us know how many scientists in present times have been punished, tortured, tormented or sentenced for proposing theories that go against a particular religion, how many have been killed the way Guru Sahib attained Shaheedi?
You can read this book regarding science and Sikhi. I have skimmed through a bit and liked it:
I would like to end this post with the following funny incident...
Science lovers, this may not be true, but some folks believe this student was none other than one of your shining heroes Einstein!
I am not asking anyone to have blind faith. Gurbani is against it. But I am interested to know, our friends who question the eternal prevalence of Akaal Purakh Vaheguru on a Sikh forum, how much knowledge of Gurbani they have to begin with? I am curious, because I don't. I just find myself unable to question the words of my Guru. If you guys are Sikhs, please study Gurbani first, and indepth. If not, then what is your purpose behind questioning God's existence on a Sikh forum?

the professor student thing is brought up again and again. its an urban myth, does anyone have any proof it actually took place? it is using a classic technique whereby the position that you want to discredit makes silly and pointless statements and the position that you wish to uphold has the sensible response. it is classic debating practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  1. I din't say anything about Gurbani being the only way, although on a personal level as a Sikh I have 100% conviction that for me Gurbani is the one and only sole path. Others are encouraged to abide by this path as well, but if they choose not to, Guru Sahib bless them wherever they are. Besides that I only pointed out the futility to try and compare science with Gurbani.
  2. In my opinion its not a number game, so not sure why the statistics of other faiths have been highlighted.
  3. I have not put anyone down, so again not sure where is the arrogance?

my response was not to your post it was to the previous poster who did say that gurbani is the only way.

i am not comparing science with religion - i think the gulf is too big to bridge and pointless.

what i am interested in is your view points on various matters, the first being various numbers of religions past and present and the vast differences in the numbers of adherents of those religions.

is it your position that a good christian or good muslim can "get there"? ( i say get there because i dont know what religious people are trying to achieve?) would it be correct if i used the term "reach unity with god"?

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats exactly what Gurbani is saying, there is no other way to Defeat Kaal, Punj choor and Merg our souls back with Vaheguru.

Bin sathigur kinai n paaeiou kar vaekhahu man veechaar |
Without the True Guru, no one has found Him; reflect upon this in your mind and see.
Heres the full shabad

just to clarify: this is the post i was responding to. it does appear to say that gurbani is the only path to truth and god. at least that is the way that i understood it. anyone agree or disagree?

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is it your position that a good christian or good muslim can "get there"? ( i say get there because i dont know what religious people are trying to achieve?) would it be correct if i used the term "reach unity with god"?

thanks

Who am I to answer as to who is going where? Sir I am not Dharamraj, I don't know where I am going, how do I say it about someone else? Please ask Gurbani this question. We Sikhs follow Gurbani not out of greed for afterlife benefits. We follow it because we are in love with it.

By the way, I was just wondering.......

poochhte hain aaj woh hum se, bataao Khuda hai bhi ya nahi

Khuda ka poochhne waale, bataa de kahi tu hee Khuda toh nahi? :) :)

imtihaan tumhaare bade rangeele, par shikkva humein koi nahi

tum saamne aake sawaal poochh gaye, aur humein khabar bhi nahi! :) :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who am I to answer as to who is going where? Sir I am not Dharamraj, I don't know where I am going, how do I say it about someone else? Please ask Gurbani this question. We Sikhs follow Gurbani not out of greed for afterlife benefits. We follow it because we are in love with it.

By the way, I was just wondering.......

poochhte hain aaj woh hum se, bataao Khuda hai bhi ya nahi

Khuda ka poochhne waale, bataa de kahi tu hee Khuda toh nahi? :) :)

imtihaan tumhaare bade rangeele, par shikkva humein koi nahi

tum saamne aake sawaal poochh gaye, aur humein khabar bhi nahi! :) :)

of course you cant say who will get there or not and you dont know what will happen with you. but you do believe sikhism is the way for you? do you believe it is the way for anyone else? eg your family, friends, other sikhs? further to that i am asking if you believe it is possible for a good christian or good muslim to get there? clearly you cannot say yes or no for sure, im just wondering what you believe on that subject? and anyone else who wishes to contribute i would be happy to hear your views.

i didnt understand the bit you wrote in punjabi, something about asking i think but i dont understand the rest.

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

of course you cant say who will get there or not and you dont know what will happen with you. but you do believe sikhism is the way for you? do you believe it is the way for anyone else? eg your family, friends, other sikhs? further to that i am asking if you believe it is possible for a good christian or good muslim to get there? clearly you cannot say yes or no for sure, im just wondering what you believe on that subject? and anyone else who wishes to contribute i would be happy to hear your views.

No one else in my family is Sikh. I don't say it was my personal choice, I'd say He saved me. So now you know where I am coming from. Yes, Sikhi is the only way for me. If someone else chooses another path, hey, its cool with me, whatever rocks their boat. Regarding a good Christian/Muslim, here is what I've heard from other Gursikhs. They believe that the soul gets what it yearns for. So by that logic, a good Muslim/Christian would aspire for heaven and thats the max they'd get. Gurbani takes the soul to the topmost levels of Sachkhand, so thats where Sikhs go. Hang on, these are views I heard/read from other Gursikhs. My views I've already told you. As a Sikh we stay in bhaana, so what happens after death is also included. By the way sir, don't bother yourself what a random person like me believes.

You still haven't answered my question regarding the scientific knowledge in Gurbani that was imparted by those Bhagats who most likely never went to school. How would science explain that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use