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Is there GOD?

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i dont have any followers. and age of the religion is not the issue. what i am asking is gurbani or sikhism the only path to truth and god. some people say yes but i think you are saying no, there are other paths. is that correct?

therefor my next question is: why is it allowed for some people to smoke, eat meat, drink wine, cut their hair and still acheive unity with god/reach heaven but other people are not allowed to do some or all of these things?

why are people of some religions told in their holy book that only jesus is the way or only mohammed is the way?

either they are following the wrong path or different people have been allowed to follow different paths to reach god?

thanks

Sikhism says that God cannot be realized by reading the Hindu scriptures or the books of the Abrahamic religions (Bible, Koran, Torah). It's a difference of opinion.

Why do birds fly and fish swim? That's what they do. People believe different things.

There are different schools of thought. People don't agree on everything. What's your point?

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Its same with even gurbani if u take as pure Holy text and read like by just mere reading u can realize god. Gurbani is pure is the sense we read, we follow and we live according to gurbani. Its important gurbani stress more getting liberated in your life not worry about after death.

baenee kehai sunahu rae bhagathahu maran mukath kin paaee

Guru Nanak Sahib ji also "hasdya, pehanday, kheldaya,jeewandaya, hoi mukat"

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?

Sikhi and science both deal with uncovering truths about the universe, but from different angles.

If science doesn't match up with Sikhi, then it is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of one of the two.

IS THERE GOD??? Debate has gone on long enough.

Dharmic faiths don't believe in a guy in the sky who is God.

We believe in a universal energy and consciousness. This is the Supreme Brahman.

We are all a part of this consciousness. There is no "I" as we are a part of the universe.

Scientific Backing

The measurement problem in quantum physics states that an atom appears as a wave when not being observed, and a particle when it is observed.

Conclusion: The universe manifests itself as it is being observed. We are all observing the same thing, therefore we are all part of the same conscious.

Creativity therefore derives from an infinitely abstract pool of consciousness that is waiting to be tapped into.THIS IS GOD.

CONQUER YOUR MIND AND YOU WILL REACH GOD (the state of Sach Khand)

RENCARNATION

Death is the death of your consciousness. Medically speaking, someone is legally dead when they don't have any brain function.

When you die your conscious returns to this infinite pool of creativity, where new things are manifested.

TRYING TO OBSERVE GOD DIRECTLY

Cannot be done. We don't have the equipment (our senses). Some people will only be satisfied if they can see and touch God. It cannot be done.

You cannot look directly at a solar eclipse. But you can deduce that it is there, through indirect means.

PEOPLE COMING ON HERE TO GIVE US A LECTURE ON WHY SCIENCE IS BETTER THAN RELIGION, NEITHER UNDERSTAND SCIENCE NOR SIKHISM.

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Sikhism is a way of life with which we can make our consciousness developed so much we can be absorbed in sumpreme consciousness "Jis te upje tis hi jaise"(be like, from which u have been created, a rough translation) Guru Nanak Sahib ji in sidh gosht.

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i will respond to you posts more fully but at the moment i would like to point out that it has not been 13 or 14 pages for me, i did not start the topic. i just jumped in with my questions about 3 pages ago.

thanks

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You should just choose to say that you don't know. There is no harm in accepting that. To arrive at a conclusion that Bhagats didn't impart knowledge in Gurbani you'd have to read and also understand entire Gurbani, which you clearly haven't done, so that comment doesn't count. I could say that rockets are fired by using Diwali fire crackers and refuse to read any book on rocket science. Doesn't make my comment worthy of any recognition, so likewise. Did you even bother to read the book I posted for you?

Ok I get it now. You have a problem with the fact that why isn't there just one religion, because science is tired of trying to disprove all of them as there are so many. Well thats how it is my friend. All human beings are not of one type. We are all different in the way Akaal Purakh Vaheguru created us. Or maybe you are wondering which faith is the best one. Well in case you still didn't notice, this is a Sikh forum, so I'll let you figure out which faith all of us will unanimously vote for.

We still don't know if you're a Sikh questioning Gurbani or a non-Sikh questioning Sikhi. You know all about us but we don't know anything about you. We don't even know the root of your questions, what makes/made you question God, why you question Sikhi/Gurbani etc. Please let us know so we can give better answers.

i dont have a problem with multiple religions because science is tired of trying to disprove them as there are so many. you say that we are all different and we are all created by one supreme being. why then are there contradictory methods to worshipping that supreme being and different routes to obtaining unity with that supreme being?

for the record i am not religious so i cannot say to you i am muslim/christian/sikh/hindu. i am born in the UK and my family is from punjab.

it will take me a bit of time to read through all the posts so i will respond section by section.

thanks

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Sikhi and science both deal with uncovering truths about the universe, but from different angles.

If science doesn't match up with Sikhi, then it is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of one of the two.

IS THERE GOD??? Debate has gone on long enough.

Dharmic faiths don't believe in a guy in the sky who is God.

We believe in a universal energy and consciousness. This is the Supreme Brahman.

We are all a part of this consciousness. There is no "I" as we are a part of the universe.

Scientific Backing

The measurement problem in quantum physics states that an atom appears as a wave when not being observed, and a particle when it is observed.

Conclusion: The universe manifests itself as it is being observed. We are all observing the same thing, therefore we are all part of the same conscious.

Creativity therefore derives from an infinitely abstract pool of consciousness that is waiting to be tapped into.THIS IS GOD.

CONQUER YOUR MIND AND YOU WILL REACH GOD (the state of Sach Khand)

RENCARNATION

Death is the death of your consciousness. Medically speaking, someone is legally dead when they don't have any brain function.

When you die your conscious returns to this infinite pool of creativity, where new things are manifested.

TRYING TO OBSERVE GOD DIRECTLY

Cannot be done. We don't have the equipment (our senses). Some people will only be satisfied if they can see and touch God. It cannot be done.

You cannot look directly at a solar eclipse. But you can deduce that it is there, through indirect means.

PEOPLE COMING ON HERE TO GIVE US A LECTURE ON WHY SCIENCE IS BETTER THAN RELIGION, NEITHER UNDERSTAND SCIENCE NOR SIKHISM.

Wrong.

I find it kind of shocking that you use claims in quantum physics to match your way of thinking, how wrong you are to so deductive, as far as I know the theory of quantum and particle physics is still trying to be understood with people working on the theory for over 30 years,

The measurement problem in quantum physics states that an atom appears as a wave when not being observed, and a particle when it is observed.

Conclusion: The universe manifests itself as it is being observed. We are all observing the same thing, therefore we are all part of the same conscious.

Show me one reputable text book or physicist backing these claim.

I watched Leonard Susskind and Lawrence Krauss and never have they claimed the thing you are, so could you provide some evidence of scientist that claim these are the conclusions of

the observations of measurement problem and where within Gurbani does it say we merg back with the "infinite pool of creativity" and we cannot observe God with these senses.

Thank you, look forward to your reply

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I don't know about you guys, but when I dream I know I'm dreaming. It's hard to explain, but when I'm walking around in a dream I'm aware of my other self in bed sleeping at the same time. I just see it as a nice diversion; something a bit different to my mundane real life.

Cool story bro, whats that got to do with the god claim, haha just joking :D but thats amazing what kinda stuff do you see, your room with you in it or what??

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Not sure what you're trying to get at sir. Are you implying that just because we have these today, therefore we don't need religion or God? With all due respect and compassion, you had no explanation as to howcome Bhagats (who never went to school) had that level of wisdom, besides just saying "No scientific knowledge was imparted by bhagats in the gurbani".

Again, what are you trying to get at? Is the conclusion of your debate "Science is better than religion", or "Now we have science to lets get rid of religion"? I am trying to be compassionate in responding as per Sangat's hukam, so please bear with me and disclose your conclusion. Its been 13 pages and we're nowhere close to understanding your sole purpose of putting forth your question.

With all due respect and compassion, I guess thats why each time someone responds you come up with a new question?

Thanks for clarifying, point noted.

By that logic we should stop making and selling knives as well? They are used to kill people! On the same note, they are also used to cut vegetables, to perform life-saving surgeries too. You should watch the movie called Parzania which is about Gujarat carnage. An American character in the movie says "I couldn't believe that religion which was the cause of so much bloodshed would also turn out to be the solution". It all depends on the way you want to have religion in your life. You can kill in the name of religion,you can also save a life. It all comes down to YOU. Can't really blame a faith if the followers don't get the point.

Sir that is solely your own personal assumption. You're free to have it but I am compassionately afraid that its not true. No one is Dharamraj to decide who gets to God. Is your beef with those who say "my way or the highway" ?

For Sikhs yes. Sorry but where have you seen Sikh preachers going around saying all non-Sikhs will go to hell? And by hell here I mean the Semitic version of hell, i.e. eternal damnation.

Our honest view with a compassionate smile is that good luck to them. We don't wish any ill upon any of them.

I am not sure which religion "allows" people to smoke or drink wine. I guess it just doesn't prohibit it, doesn't mean it allows them. Meat and cutting hair is a different story though. Christianity possibly does have the wine concept (not sure)?

Look, and I am saying this very compassionately, if you have a problem with the beliefs of Christians and Muslims, please go to their forum and challenge them for looking upto Jesus and Muhammad as the sole messengers of God. Please do not make us badmouth them. For us Guru Sahib is the topmost personality.

im not trying to make you badmouth anyone. all i want to know is: why are there contradictory ways of achieving unity with god? drinking wine is specifically allowed in christianity, the red wine represents the blood of christ (when it has been blessed). so clearly christians are allowed by god to eat meat, drink wine, not prohibited from smoking, cut their hair and still achieve their goal of getting to heaven and union with jesus/god.

muslims are specifically told to slaughter meat in the halal method and still get to heaven to have unity with allah and mohammed.

sikhism (i believe) bans eating of meat unless you are starving, but at the very least it specifically bans eating halal meat or ritual slaughter meat and no wine is allowed, no cutting of hair.

now only one of the following is true:

1. people are allowed to have contradictory methods/paths to god/heaven

2. there is only one path to god/heaven and the others are wrong.

christianity is quite clear on this - they say the only path to god/heaven is through their lord jesus christ.

i dont know the muslim view on this but i would lean quite heavily toward "islam and mohammed and the koran is the only way"

from what i can tell from some posts above, the sikh position seems to be "we believe the gurbani is the way to god and we wish other people well in their choices, they may or may not get to achieve unity with god/heaven - we dont know, its gods decision to make"

now for sikhs only one of the following is true:

1. god is only letting good/deserving sikhs into heaven

2. god is letting in deserving meat eaters, wine drinkers, halal slaughterers, smokers, hair cut people, non turban wearers as well as deserving sikhs

thanks

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Sikhism says that God cannot be realized by reading the Hindu scriptures or the books of the Abrahamic religions (Bible, Koran, Torah). It's a difference of opinion.

Why do birds fly and fish swim? That's what they do. People believe different things.

There are different schools of thought. People don't agree on everything. What's your point?

i dont think that if a fish "believed" in flying it would suddenly become a bird and be able to fly. i dont understand the validity of your point. people believe different things - yes of course. the questions i am asking are: what do you think/believe about their beliefs. that is where things get interesting.please see my post with the 1 and 2 options written toward the bottom.

thanks

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Sikhi and science both deal with uncovering truths about the universe, but from different angles.

If science doesn't match up with Sikhi, then it is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of one of the two.

IS THERE GOD??? Debate has gone on long enough.

Dharmic faiths don't believe in a guy in the sky who is God.

We believe in a universal energy and consciousness. This is the Supreme Brahman.

We are all a part of this consciousness. There is no "I" as we are a part of the universe.

Scientific Backing

The measurement problem in quantum physics states that an atom appears as a wave when not being observed, and a particle when it is observed.

Conclusion: The universe manifests itself as it is being observed. We are all observing the same thing, therefore we are all part of the same conscious.

Creativity therefore derives from an infinitely abstract pool of consciousness that is waiting to be tapped into.THIS IS GOD.

CONQUER YOUR MIND AND YOU WILL REACH GOD (the state of Sach Khand)

RENCARNATION

Death is the death of your consciousness. Medically speaking, someone is legally dead when they don't have any brain function.

When you die your conscious returns to this infinite pool of creativity, where new things are manifested.

TRYING TO OBSERVE GOD DIRECTLY

Cannot be done. We don't have the equipment (our senses). Some people will only be satisfied if they can see and touch God. It cannot be done.

You cannot look directly at a solar eclipse. But you can deduce that it is there, through indirect means.

PEOPLE COMING ON HERE TO GIVE US A LECTURE ON WHY SCIENCE IS BETTER THAN RELIGION, NEITHER UNDERSTAND SCIENCE NOR SIKHISM.

you can look directly at a solar eclipse. think about what you are writing. the sun is blocked during a solar eclipse. the period before and after - its best to wear shades.

science and religion are mutually exclusive

science requires evidence

religions requires faith (even though some of you argue sikhism is not based on faith)

you will find that most scientists are not religious.

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Cool story bro, whats that got to do with the god claim, haha just joking :D but thats amazing what kinda stuff do you see, your room with you in it or what??

Ha, ha, sorry about that. I was reading a post earlier in the thread and I forgot to quote it. I just blurted it out. Ignore me. It was a cry for help and attention. :blush2:

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