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Is there GOD?

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Wrong.

I find it kind of shocking that you use claims in quantum physics to match your way of thinking, how wrong you are to so deductive, as far as I know the theory of quantum and particle physics is still trying to be understood with people working on the theory for over 30 years,

Show me one reputable text book or physicist backing these claim.

I watched Leonard Susskind and Lawrence Krauss and never have they claimed the thing you are, so could you provide some evidence of scientist that claim these are the conclusions of

the observations of measurement problem and where within Gurbani does it say we merg back with the "infinite pool of creativity" and we cannot observe God with these senses.

Thank you, look forward to your reply

If you find logical thinking shocking, then we can't see eye to eye. You just disregarded a whole branch of science, lol. That's like someone disregarding astronomy, when arguing that the earth is the center of the universe.

The traditional laws of physics break down at the subatomic level. Quantum Physics is relevant and necessary.

Do a google search yourself for reputable scientists that support this claim. Look through textbooks yourself. Are you giving me homework? Making me hunt for the magical goose egg that will show you the light? Why should I bother?

This should suffice

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Siree Raag on Pannaa 20
jis thae oupajai this thae binasai ghatt ghatt sach bharapoor ||
We shall merge into the One from whom we came. The True One is pervading in each and every heart.
Can you see God? Can you touch him, taste him, hear him, smell him?
Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
Like a child arguing over whether the sky is blue.
DO NOT REPLY BACK

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you can look directly at a solar eclipse. think about what you are writing. the sun is blocked during a solar eclipse. the period before and after - its best to wear shades.

science and religion are mutually exclusive

science requires evidence

religions requires faith (even though some of you argue sikhism is not based on faith)

you will find that most scientists are not religious.

If you require shades then that is not directly looking at it. You will burn your eyes.

Religion is a Western word used for a philosophy revolving around a guy in the sky.

Sorry there isn't an English word to describe Sikhism. It is a philosophy on life and a way to live life. It is a dharam.

Most scientists have traditionally come from Abrahamic backgrounds. How many of them understand Dharma? Not many.

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Once again, and I repeat, I have no idea what your thoughts are about God, or about the message in Gurbani. I also repeat, that you need to go and ask Muslims and Christians why they believe what they believe. Sukhmani Sahib clearly states what is the true religion, and one Shabad by Bhagat Tarlochan Jee clearly states what happens to a person after he/she dies, based on his/her thoughts at the last moment. He doesn't specify it based on religion, just the individual's thoughts at the last moment, which leads me to believe that this is possibly why Guru Sahib urges us to engage in Naam Simran 24/7, and engage in it swaas-swaas, i.e. every breath. If you choose not to believe this, please be my guest sir, go for it, and I say this with compassion.



you say that we are all different and we are all created by one supreme being. why then are there contradictory methods to worshipping that supreme being and different routes to obtaining unity with that supreme being?

Gurbani clearly mentions how to worship. Gaaviye suniye mann rakhiye bhaao. That is how we worship.


why are there contradictory ways of achieving unity with god? drinking wine is specifically allowed in christianity, the red wine represents the blood of christ (when it has been blessed). so clearly christians are allowed by god to eat meat, drink wine, not prohibited from smoking, cut their hair and still achieve their goal of getting to heaven and union with jesus/god.
muslims are specifically told to slaughter meat in the halal method and still get to heaven to have unity with allah and mohammed.
sikhism (i believe) bans eating of meat unless you are starving, but at the very least it specifically bans eating halal meat or ritual slaughter meat and no wine is allowed, no cutting of hair.

Once again I repeat, Sukhmani Sahib states which is the right way.

now only one of the following is true:

1. people are allowed to have contradictory methods/paths to god/heaven

2. there is only one path to god/heaven and the others are wrong.

Akaal Purakh Vaheguru is beyond such type of rules. Gurbani has examples of worst sinners also getting liberated. In fact, Gurbani says worst sinners CAN get liberated.

christianity is quite clear on this - they say the only path to god/heaven is through their lord jesus christ.
i dont know the muslim view on this but i would lean quite heavily toward "islam and mohammed and the koran is the only way"

For the 4th time today, and with compassion, please ask a Muslim or a Christian :)

from what i can tell from some posts above, the sikh position seems to be "we believe the gurbani is the way to god and we wish other people well in their choices, they may or may not get to achieve unity with god/heaven - we dont know, its gods decision to make"

The Sikh position is in Sukhmani Sahib, please read and understand this Bani.

now for sikhs only one of the following is true:

1. god is only letting good/deserving sikhs into heaven
2. god is letting in deserving meat eaters, wine drinkers, halal slaughterers, smokers, hair cut people, non turban wearers as well as deserving sikhs

Sorry but for Sikhs its Gurbani that is true. Read it, understand it, and if possible, please live it...with compassion.


If nothing else, this thread did teach me (well, confirmed for me) one of Gurbani's messages, that if Akaal Purakh Vaheguru wants to keep someone away, you can't do anything to put them on path. Its only by Guru Sahib's grace that they come on the right path. No, hang on, I am not referring to anyone on this forum who is questioning God's existence, its just a general statement I am making, compassionately ofcourse. This is a discussion forum and we need such questions.

May Sache Patshah keep us on the path of Gurmat till our last breath!

/\
(folded hands)

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ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥
ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥

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i dont think that if a fish "believed" in flying it would suddenly become a bird and be able to fly. i dont understand the validity of your point. people believe different things - yes of course. the questions i am asking are: what do you think/believe about their beliefs. that is where things get interesting.please see my post with the 1 and 2 options written toward the bottom.

thanks

God is not telling us to believe what we believe. Our Gurus have come up with a philosophy for living a life that will allow us to realize the truth about our existence and the illusion of the material world.

We don't practice Sikhism to please God. We practice it as a way of life, for our personal betterment. To make us better people and get the most meaning out this life we have.

Other "faiths" have different beliefs. I don't agree with them. Some claim that their faiths have been dictated by God. Sikhism doesn't believe in this.

However, everyone is free to practice whatever "faith" they want.

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you can look directly at a solar eclipse. think about what you are writing. the sun is blocked during a solar eclipse. the period before and after - its best to wear shades.

science and religion are mutually exclusive

science requires evidence

religions requires faith (even though some of you argue sikhism is not based on faith)

you will find that most scientists are not religious.

'Most' scientists do not believe in God what the most people define God as. Most (~75%) of the Scientists believe presence of high Supreme power which controls everything in this Universe.

Michio Kaku (famous scientist) calls natural disasters as 'act of God' but does not call himself religious. Now you will say what is the point of having religions... Scientists have the problem of ego which is why many learned people are stuck in their world of materialism. Mankind cannot achieve eternal happiness through materialism.

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If you find logical thinking shocking, then we can't see eye to eye. You just disregarded a whole branch of science, lol. That's like someone disregarding astronomy, when arguing that the earth is the center of the universe.

The traditional laws of physics break down at the subatomic level. Quantum Physics is relevant and necessary.

Do a google search yourself for reputable scientists that support this claim. Look through textbooks yourself. Are you giving me homework? Making me hunt for the magical goose egg that will show you the light? Why should I bother?

This should suffice

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Siree Raag on Pannaa 20
jis thae oupajai this thae binasai ghatt ghatt sach bharapoor ||
We shall merge into the One from whom we came. The True One is pervading in each and every heart.
Can you see God? Can you touch him, taste him, hear him, smell him?
Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
Like a child arguing over whether the sky is blue.
DO NOT REPLY BACK

on the whole scientists do not believe in a supreme being and generally they are not religious. on the whole they also object to science being used as reasoning to support religious texts. im not saying this is true of everyone but it is the majority.

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on the whole scientists do not believe in a supreme being and generally they are not religious. on the whole they also object to science being used as reasoning to support religious texts. im not saying this is true of everyone but it is the majority.

Where did you get this? I doubt you are a scientist.

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Once again, and I repeat, I have no idea what your thoughts are about God, or about the message in Gurbani. I also repeat, that you need to go and ask Muslims and Christians why they believe what they believe. Sukhmani Sahib clearly states what is the true religion, and one Shabad by Bhagat Tarlochan Jee clearly states what happens to a person after he/she dies, based on his/her thoughts at the last moment. He doesn't specify it based on religion, just the individual's thoughts at the last moment, which leads me to believe that this is possibly why Guru Sahib urges us to engage in Naam Simran 24/7, and engage in it swaas-swaas, i.e. every breath. If you choose not to believe this, please be my guest sir, go for it, and I say this with compassion.

Gurbani clearly mentions how to worship. Gaaviye suniye mann rakhiye bhaao. That is how we worship.

then are other methods wrong?

Once again I repeat, Sukhmani Sahib states which is the right way.

if that is the right way, then are other ways wrong ways?

Akaal Purakh Vaheguru is beyond such type of rules. Gurbani has examples of worst sinners also getting liberated. In fact, Gurbani says worst sinners CAN get liberated.

so what is the point of leading a good life? what is the point of following all the rules and being pure of thought? what do you get? extra heaven?

For the 4th time today, and with compassion, please ask a Muslim or a Christian :)

there is nothing to ask a christian or muslim. they are quite clear: theirs is the only way. I dont agree with their view point BUT at least this can be said for them: they say their way is the only way and the have some numbers behind them that would make it proportionately more believeable and they are spread all over the world. what this means is that if the christians are right then there are about 1.5 billion people with a chance to make it to heaven. obviously some of them will be bad people and sinners but some of them will be good. so lets say that only 500 million of them are good. that gives the world population as a whole about 7% of people getting to heaven. and they are globally located and accept/recruit converts easily.

compare that to sikhism (which is, i believe, much more sensible and logical in comparison to christianity) located in a small part of india with only 20 - 23 million followers, hardly anywhere else in the world with hardly any converts. doesnt give many people a chance to follow the right path. doesnt it seem amazing to you sikhs that you are a part of this amazing and very, very exclusive religion and only the very best of you have a chance of getting to heaven? it must be pretty quiet up there given the restrictive entrance requirements.

The Sikh position is in Sukhmani Sahib, please read and understand this Bani.

Sorry but for Sikhs its Gurbani that is true. Read it, understand it, and if possible, please live it...with compassion.

does that mean nothing that is said anywhere else can be true? you have avoided answering the point because you know that both answers are ridiculous.

If nothing else, this thread did teach me (well, confirmed for me) one of Gurbani's messages, that if Akaal Purakh Vaheguru wants to keep someone away, you can't do anything to put them on path. Its only by Guru Sahib's grace that they come on the right path. No, hang on, I am not referring to anyone on this forum who is questioning God's existence, its just a general statement I am making, compassionately ofcourse. This is a discussion forum and we need such questions.

May Sache Patshah keep us on the path of Gurmat till our last breath!

but only your last thought counts so make it a good one and whatever you did before doesnt matter!

/\

(folded hands)

Where did you get this? I doubt you are a scientist.

it is common knowledge that religious beliefs amongst scientists are far lower than the population as a whole.

define scientist for me and i will tell you if i am or not.

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it is common knowledge that religious beliefs amongst scientists are far lower than the population as a whole.

define scientist for me and i will tell you if i am or not.

I am talking about your claim 'Most' scientists do not believe in Supreme being. I actually gave what I read in an article long ago. I will try to find it for you.

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God is not telling us to believe what we believe. Our Gurus have come up with a philosophy for living a life that will allow us to realize the truth about our existence and the illusion of the material world.

We don't practice Sikhism to please God. We practice it as a way of life, for our personal betterment. To make us better people and get the most meaning out this life we have.

Other "faiths" have different beliefs. I don't agree with them. Some claim that their faiths have been dictated by God. Sikhism doesn't believe in this.

However, everyone is free to practice whatever "faith" they want.

of course everyone is free to practice what they want, my question is how can it be that those practices are often contradictory? someone somewhere must have been wrong or mistaken.

moses was a prophet

jesus was a prophet/son of god

mohammed was a prophet

the gurus were prophets (is this correct?)

yet they teach contradictory values.

so you can choose either:

1. agree that one of them was right and the others are all wrong.

2. they are all correct and following either of them will get you where you want go.

I am talking about your claim 'Most' scientists do not believe in Supreme being. I actually gave what I read in an article long ago. I will try to find it for you.

one of many sources:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.pdf

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of course everyone is free to practice what they want, my question is how can it be that those practices are often contradictory? someone somewhere must have been wrong or mistaken.

moses was a prophet

jesus was a prophet/son of god

mohammed was a prophet

the gurus were prophets (is this correct?)

yet they teach contradictory values.

so you can choose either:

1. agree that one of them was right and the others are all wrong.

2. they are all correct and following either of them will get you where you want go.

one of many sources:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.pdf

hehe. I know u would do this. I know most of them are not religious and do not believe in a 'God' which relates to religions but actually believe in a Supreme Power or energy.

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Guest scai

There is extensive planning in the spiritual world before you come in this physical world.

Michael Newton PHD has written 3 or 4 books after hypnosis of about 7000 patients.How souls plan their birth experiences. He also coined the term Lives between Lives (LBL). You choose to forget everything before you come to earth or another physical plane. Also 2 books by Robert Schawrtz very informative on this process. We just did not show up randomly in Sikh households. Life is about consciously creating our experiences and GOD will validate those experiences, if you pay close attention to things happening in your life.GOD is all in all Alpha and Omega.First thought and last experience. This is about you choosing. The grandest of all experience is of soul longing to meet GOD. As Sikhs we create this experience by choosing Sikh way of life taking AMRIT, Gurbani and NAAM SIMRAN. We can choose whatever we want and create that experience. Unity is the Truth, Separation is an illusion. Human Body comprises of 50 Trillion cells working in unity to create a human being.

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hehe. I know u would do this. I know most of them are not religious and do not believe in a 'God' which relates to religions but actually believe in a Supreme Power or energy.

so what does that mean? they believe in energy because it exists, it can be measured. equations can be written about it. it doesnt mean they support any religion or think that something written 500 or 2000 years ago has been proved to be true. logical thinking and scientific method are not compatible with religious beliefs.

i dont believe in horoscopes or astrology but have you ever read one? it is so wide ranging and covers all the bases that some of it usually applies to you.

they write stuff like:

it is an important time for your finances, you will have a difficult choice to make. elsewhere a relationship will be tested but you will be brought closer together.

that kind of stuff could be made to apply to almost everyone and i feel it is the same with the quotes from the gurbani that someone has used to justify religion and science are on the same page.

it is called selective use of the facts to support your own argument.

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