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Guru's Titles....Dilgeer's views


DSGj
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ਤਿਨਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਸੋਢੀ ਥਿਰੁ ਥਪ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ॥

We don't use SURNAME and not even DEV.

It is do with human tendency Guru Nanak seems short compared to Guru Teg Bhadur that is the only reason We use Guru Nanak Dev or Guru Nanak Sahib. As Guru Teg Bhadur is accordance with our normal natureof speaking two word name we don't use Dev there. This is simple reason or logic for using Dev or Sahib for people. U have quoted so much and u will be aware of some, its only written amar for Guru Amardass Sahib, it doesn't mean they r not showing respect,it was also in case with Guru Gobind Singh even referred Gobind Singh. Gurbani is written poetic verses so sometime time it is required or not required. Guru Ramdass ji was SODHI WE DON'T CALL HIM GURU RAMDASS SODHI TO SHOW RESPECT. We are so habitual using Dev that we now can't replace it with Sahib.

About Guru AmarDaas Jee, I wrote about that in my first reply in this topic.

"We are so habitual using Dev that we now can't replace it with Sahib."

What is your problem with Dev and why are you so focused on REPLACING it with Sahib? No one is coming out and writing articles saying why you say Sahib. I don't know why you want to change Dev somewhat permanently. From Guru Nanak Dev Jee's birth till now, people have called the Gurus using many different methods.

For example.

Just their name alone: Angad, Nanak, etc.

Part of their full name: Amar (instead of AmarDaas).

Their name + Guru: Guru Nanak

Their name + Guru + Respect: Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Baba Nanak Dev Sahib Jeeo Maharaj :smile2: (you got a problem with that? Then keep it to yourself, because people can praise the Gurus as much as they want. Trying to create debates and arguements that some words should be eliminated and some should replace others it hypocritical. Sahib and Dev are equally good. But it has been proven again and again that Dev is attached to Guru Nanak in many cases throughout Gurbani and history).

It's fully hypocritical of Dilgeer to say that Sri and Dev is wrong, and that Sahib is correct.

Please show me anywhere is Guru Granth Sahib Jee or Bhai Gurdaas Jee vaars or anything from that timeframe where the word Sahib is attatched to the Gurus?

Unless your agenda is that there is nothing like that, so in the future you will say that we shouldn't say Sahib either. Then one day you will say that we shouldn't say Guru either. One can see through Dilgeer + followers agenda.

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Aad Gur e Nameh Jugad Gur e Nameh Satgur e Nameh Sri Gurdev E Nameh ||

Need i say more? What's next in their agenda? Let me guess, these goons will now claim above shalok/mantra is not gurbani from sukhmani sahib as this appear indic/ hindu/rhymes like hindu mantra..!!

Where is this insanity/sheer paranoia, insecurity, inferiority complex, ancient indic hindu phobia stops?

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Aad Gur e Nameh Jugad Gur e Nameh Satgur e Nameh Sri Gurdev E Nameh ||

Need i say more? What's next in their agenda? Let me guess, these goons will now claim above shalok/mantra is not gurbani from sukhmani sahib as this appear indic/ hindu/rhymes like hindu mantra..!!

Where is this insanity/sheer paranoia, insecurity, inferiority complex, ancient indic hindu phobia stops?

GURU GRANTH DEV :biggrin2: GURU GRANTH SAHIB. Dilgeer has a point, I appreciate his point and if u don't its good. People usually have differences but when we have differences we stop listening to them they r right or wrong, calling than simpally they r wrong. It is in gurbani that is why we use DEV TO SHOW RESPECT with Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Angad Dev but r not we biased towards others guru sahibaan like we don't remember them saying Guru Hargobind jeeo Maharaj or Guru Granth jeeo. Maharaj.

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GURU GRANTH DEV :biggrin2: GURU GRANTH SAHIB. Dilgeer has a point, I appreciate his point and if u don't its good. People usually have differences but when we have differences we stop listening to them they r right or wrong, calling than simpally they r wrong. It is in gurbani that is why we use DEV TO SHOW RESPECT with Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Angad Dev but r not we biased towards others guru sahibaan like we don't remember them saying Guru Hargobind jeeo Maharaj or Guru Granth jeeo. Maharaj.

But what do you have to think about the fact that Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee has used the Dev (GurDev) for Guru Ram Das Jee in Sri Sukhmani Sahib's start? You are using the argument that it is bias for not using dev for all Gurus, but that doesn't make sense. Using your argument of "isn't it being bias", it's like saying "Isn't Guru Arjun Dev Jee being bias in Sukhmani Sahib by not calling Guru Nanak Dev Jee(aad Gure nameh) as DEV, or bias against Guru Angad Dev Jee(Jugaad Gure nameh), Guru Amardas Jee (Satgure Nameh), why only Guru RaamDas Jee?" do you not see how empty your argument is from Gurbani point of view?

I have listened to Dilgeer several times, and he has a HUGE ego problem. He thinks he is Mr Know-It-All, as if he is the only scholar that ever lived in the entire history of man kind. I have rarely seen a man with such Hankaar as him. He is using his fame to mislead and misguide less knowledgeable Sikhs much like Darshan Lal has done. His new books are a total U-turn from his old books(which by the way were in line with Gurmat). Now he has turned himself into pure heretic Kala Afghanist.

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But what do you have to think about the fact that Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee has used the Dev (GurDev) for Guru Ram Das Jee in Sri Sukhmani Sahib's start? You are using the argument that it is bias for not using dev for all Gurus, but that doesn't make sense. Using your argument of "isn't it being bias", it's like saying "Isn't Guru Arjun Dev Jee being bias in Sukhmani Sahib by not calling Guru Nanak Dev Jee(aad Gure nameh) as DEV, or bias against Guru Angad Dev Jee(Jugaad Gure nameh), Guru Amardas Jee (Satgure Nameh), why only Guru RaamDas Jee?" do you not see how empty your argument is from Gurbani point of view?

I have listened to Dilgeer several times, and he has a HUGE ego problem. He thinks he is Mr Know-It-All, as if he is the only scholar that ever lived in the entire history of man kind. I have rarely seen a man with such Hankaar as him. He is using his fame to mislead and misguide less knowledgeable Sikhs much like Darshan Lal has done. His new books are a total U-turn from his old books(which by the way were in line with Gurmat). Now he has turned himself into pure heretic Kala Afghanist.

I am bit confused with your argument. You are quoting from gurbani when did I quoted anything from gurbani,never,infact all the points were made from gurbani to prove the fact about using Dev. And without quoting any refrence from gurbani and I only used one, that was to say if you go by gurbani why don't you call Guru Ramdass Sodhi. Note of Dilgeer carries all the reference which were used by Sarbloh and he(Sarbloh) rather gave his well researched reference from gurbani for his view. Lines from Sukhmani is confusing me. The point is clear I appreciate his point of view and Sarbloh's different opinion.

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Fateh

Without prejudice.

We had Guru Nanak ji through to Guru Gobind Singh ji as our Guru's. The summary of the Guru's were saluted by Guru Gobind Singh ji in the Ardass.

All the way through the Ardaas; The Guru's names are placed as per their names without additonal salutations i.e. of Dev or Deo or Sahib....

Care to explain why the additonal respectful salutations are not added in the Ardass.

Fateh . . . .

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Fateh

Without prejudice.

We had Guru Nanak ji through to Guru Gobind Singh ji as our Guru's. The summary of the Guru's were saluted by Guru Gobind Singh ji in the Ardass.

All the way through the Ardaas; The Guru's names are placed as per their names without additonal salutations i.e. of Dev or Deo or Sahib....

Care to explain why the additonal respectful salutations are not added in the Ardass.

Fateh . . . .

Scholar's of panth who have written ardaas, only they can explain. :respect:

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