Say no to Guru's pictures

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

“To be brief, Nanak’s followers scorn images. Their belief is that all Gurus are Nanak...They do not recite the mantras of the Hindus and do not pay respect to their idol-temples. They do not count the avtaras for anything. They do not have any attachment to Sanskrit, which the Hindus call the language of angels”

The above was noted by Persian historian Mobid, in his book Dabistan-i-Mazahib, written around 1645.

Translated by Irfan Habib and J.S. Grewal: Sikh History from Persian Sources (page 66).

Tuhilka, New Delhi (2001)

Now people countering missionaries will get history re-written.

Guru Granth Sahib is JAAGDI JYOT OF 10 GURU SAHIBAAN if u can't see them in Gurbani there is problem. So if one have to see 10 Guru Sahibaan and they should get a photo of Guru Granth Sahib and hang some where in house. Or see them in Gurbani. Guru Granth Guru panth. (If you want to see me in nirgun swaroop see me in Guru Granth Sahib and u want to see me sargun swaroop see me in panth. Raise the panth and remove the photo. ) I might be qouting something wrong here but one might remember some one from this quote. If not god help you.

[Pappi9]

Can you explain by starting from the beginning. Who told you that it is these are pictures of Satguru. Our Gurus were the Kings of Kings and had all the

best resources at their call. They never ever allowed anyone to make their portraits or idols. So who are you trying to fool by thinking that saying

that you are taking inspiration from these imaginary pictures.

Had people of your mind set had their way all our Gurdwaras would have these imaginary pictures hanging in the Darbar Halls from every nook and corner.

for sure you dont believe in granths written by great sikhs.......leave that a side.......( Perfect example of Missionary )

i belive in sakhi n pics......dese are guru maharaj pics......... further i beleive coz damdami taksal says this.....

you keep on saying its not.......jus give me one quote where guru maharaj said .....i'll never have my picture painted.........and not from guru granth sahib ji.......as anybody can interpretate it there own way......

veerji guru maharaj ne shardha dekhni aa.....maharaj na koi hard n fast rule nahi si.......maharj apne warge nahi ke choti je gal te bache wangu ladan......

n nor did ne said ke jehdi pic mein banai aa......ohdi booth pooja karo

oh n for sure i would like to know .....did guru maharaj stoped rock with his hand ( panja sahib ...or you gonna say guru maharaj ne shakti dikhaun to manna kitha hai)......... as gurbani says...............

but there are many miracles...even done by guru sahib........oh oh but u say u r a sikh and its fairly tail

[Only five]

1. Can you explain by starting from the beginning. Who told you that it is these are pictures of Satguru. Our Gurus were the Kings of Kings and had all the best resources at their call. They never ever allowed anyone to make their portraits or idols. So who are you trying to fool by thinking that saying that you are taking inspiration from these imaginary pictures.

Had people of your mind set had their way all our Gurdwaras would have these imaginary pictures hanging in the Darbar Halls from every nook and corner.

1. What would you accept as proof?

2. I'm ignore this comment as the main goal of missionary leaders and foot soldiers is to split the Khalsa Panth up. But before shooting off know who your enemies are and who have no intention of hurting your religion. Better yet, those that have a knee j*rk reaction to many incidents should be doing or listening to one Sukhmani Sahib da paath everyday. You will be able to collect your thoughts a lot easier and understand who and when an enemy approaches.

[N30S1NGH]

Picture be it artistic or real serve as reminder, invoke a devotional feeling which further inspire or motivates an individual towards dharam, good deeds, attributes. It's huge generalization to suggest just because you have pictures of guru sahib, saints/soldiers in your house that indicates one is idol worshiping, its quite a insult and those who suggest that are clearly out of depth regarding intertwine relationship of sargun and nirgun and they also have double standard as they have no problem putting pictures of family, iconography of all sorts, home decors in their homes.

Idol worshiping have two forms- physical form and subtle form in one's mind. What we have done is we have condemned (rightly so) physical form of idol worshiping in sikhi- dhoof in front of picture and rightly so but sometimes so much so much that we have gone extreme lengths of removing fresco of our guru sahiban,destroyed our sikh art/ heritage in doing so in insecurity, paranoia, removing pictures of guru sahib, our shaheeds, murids, sahibzadas(recent events).. now condemnation of physical idol worship is right but removing our heritage fresco/ discouraging artist expression references and destroying our heritage in insecurity that is totally wrong and quite frankly nothing but knee J E R K Reaction that is something only reincarnation of teja singh/protestant/right wing/ultra elitist fascist mindset would do.

Anyway, what we also missed to address is subtle form of idol worshiping which is quite important one. You see idol worshiping have broader implications when in its subtle form its usually do with one's mind/perception than actual subject (picture). You could simply have no pictures in the gurdwara, house hold nor in your wallet but still be idol worshipper..how? Here is how, if your perception is stuck where we confine our guru sahib jot only in sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji only and not hazar-nazar as well everywhere, inside everyone- your perception unintentionally is committing border line of idol worshiping..Jagadi Jot of all guru sahiban is in sri guru granth sahib ji there is no question about it nor they should be doubts or questions, but is guru sahib is confined to sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji only?? No they clearly NOT......"confining" is the crux of argument here...We have iconic historical moment of sri guru nanak dev ji teaching lessons to Muslims of them confining their allah in the mecca..i thought we learned it from that historical event..i guess apparently *NOT* allah/Vahiguroo is everywhere lets not confine it. we are committing idol worshipping when confining vahiguroo who is sarab vyapak.!!!

Guru maharaj is sargun, nirgun(gyan) and shabad as per gurbani and as per bhai nand lal ji. When we think of guru sahib if we never bring all these aspects of guru sahib and "always" conditioned to be attached to one aspect of guru sahib we are committing idol worshiping as we are confining guru sahib.

So lets just honest with ourselves and look at "all" aspects of idol worshiping than just the physical one....!!

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

“To be brief, Nanak’s followers scorn images. Their belief is that all Gurus are Nanak...They do not recite the mantras of the Hindus and do not pay respect to their idol-temples. They do not count the avtaras for anything. They do not have any attachment to Sanskrit, which the Hindus call the language of angels”

The above was noted by Persian historian Mobid, in his book Dabistan-i-Mazahib, written around 1645.

Translated by Irfan Habib and J.S. Grewal: Sikh History from Persian Sources (page 66).

Tuhilka, New Delhi (2001)

Its about individaulas they rise to the standards of the values of there GURU'S or they r so weak they need moral support by pictures of GURU'S. We should have historical /war depicting pictures in our homes, But not of Guru's.

[Singh559]

Say the picture looked exactly like the Guru, would you respect it then?

Also showing respect and and worshipping the picture of the Guru's body is two different things. The Shabad you posted speak about worshipping not respecting.

Respect should be shown and satkaar, but not pooja.

It should be preserved as historical pieces and should not be disrespected by putting on the floor and what not, but worship only Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

[S1ngh]

There are two issues and some are desperately linking them each other and creating a whole big issue which is certainly not worth of discussing. But sometime such issues should be discussed with more maturity.

It is not uncommon that people are now starting to question the concept of having guru sahib jees picture and without sense of maturity they started calling them names etc.

Why some are against some who wants to have pictures of guru sahib jee in their home? How many people do you personally know who have pictures at home and do idol worship? Do you really think that the ratio of idol photo worship folks are going thru the roof? How about those memorial places build inside darbar sahib complex?

One may grew up in different culture but that does not and should not give them authority to judge other culture folks..

This picture issue is sheer propaganda of missionaries communist cult.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

There are two issues and some are desperately linking them each other and creating a whole big issue which is certainly not worth of discussing. But sometime such issues should be discussed with more maturity.

It is not uncommon that people are now starting to question the concept of having guru sahib jees picture and without sense of maturity they started calling them names etc.

Why some are against some who wants to have pictures of guru sahib jee in their home? How many people do you personally know who have pictures at home and do idol worship? Do you really think that the ratio of idol photo worship folks are going thru the roof? How about those memorial places build inside darbar sahib complex?

One may grew up in different culture but that does not and should not give them authority to judge other culture folks..

This picture issue is sheer propaganda of missionaries communist cult.

They are two different to begun with, yes they are two different things.

Second thing, sikhs never had pictures of guru's that is also proven fact. Now days this trend is rising and you will see sikhs also have clay or steel made idols of guru ji's and do "dhoop and agarbati". Somebody will question this increasing trend of worship before it goes through roof.

Anything going against sikhism, if it is questioned then we start calling everybody a missionary is rather some hard thing to do.

One should be proud missonary of Guru Nanak Sahib.

[AK-47]

It's shocking sometimes how childlike sorry brat like people can get.

Are we becoming the Taliban now?!

Some people willing to accept a Persian source which will obv have islamic influence re images but not a sikh source because they say it had Hindu influence?! Ridiculous.

And where do you stop if we become hell bent on removing images? A painting is an image, a picture of a flower is an image, pics of martyrs are images, pics of darbar sahib are images, pics of gurbani are images, gurbani itself is a written image of te shabad, do we get rid of it all? Do we uproot all of darbar sahib to remove images of flowers n birds?

People get knickers in twist over gurus images but plaster pics of kids n family over homes. Such hypocrisy!

Sant Kartar Singh Ji said that pics of guru sahibs are like a walking stick. They can help a person onto the path, they can help a person learn how to walk, but eventually the sikh has no need for pics (walking stick) n walks himself with bani.

It's the usual throw the baby out with the bath water thing, rather than deal with the issue revisionists try n find a new jihad to fight!

This is such a non issue it's funny, but at the same time it's expressive of the twisted way revisionists are trying to reframe Sikhi. Benti, beware of these people, they cause havoc by stirring pointless isssues but have no iinterest in real Sikhi of gurbani abhiyaas, naam kamai, seva of guru and sangat and spiritual progression.

If you want to be a missionary of Guru Nanak Dev Ji then be one like Bhai Gurdas Ji. But oh hang on, you don't believe in his vaars, you can't open a pothi of his vaars near maharajh and you can't get your head around his words even if you do try. Never mind.

[Sherdil]

People have pics of their family members, but at least those pics are accurate. Guru Sahibans pics have been drawn from the imagination of an artist, 100's of years later. They probably don't even look like them.

I have seen countless times, someone standing in front of a Guru Sahib pic, with their hands folded and eyes closed. If we are going to allow pics then how do we stop this practice, as it is against the basics of Sikhi.

I think we should consider that pics of Guru Sahiban were only made after Guru Gobind Singh ji's time. They didn't want pics because they knew that people would start worshipping the pics.

If you don't worship the pics, then good. But what about those less-enlightened people?