Say no to Guru's pictures

[tuhintuhin]

pathar, ghar le aayo tusi. pujoo kaun rokda hai. baani vich kithe likhya hai Bhagat Dhanna ji and the tarclochan pandit, both worshipped "pathar

thank you for the sugestion waheguru ji and cool down.............now back to the point......as everyone knows that Bhai Gurdas ji's vaaran is the kunji of Guru Granth Sahib per Guru Arjan Dev ji's bachans (now if you reject this fact as well, better read the jeewans of Guru Arjan Dev ji and Bhai Gurdas ji......and that's what you have to do it yourself - reading part)

This is what Bhai sahib has to say about Bhagat Dhanna ji and Pundit Tarlochan.....

ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਧੰਨਾ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਣ ਆਵੈ।

ਧੰਨੈ ਡਿਠਾ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਏਹੁ ਪੁਛੈ ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ।

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਇਛੈ ਸੋਈ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ।

ਧੰਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਜੋਦੜੀ ਮੈ ਭਿ ਦੇਹ ਇਕ ਜੇ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ।

ਪਥਰੁ ਇਕ ਲਪੇਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇ ਧੰਨੈ ਨੋ ਗੈਲ ਛੁਡਾਵੈ।

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨੋ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਾਲਿਕੈ ਛਾਹਿ ਰੋਟੀ ਲੈ ਭੋਗੁ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਵੈ।

ਹਥਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਿਨਤਾਂ ਕਰੈ ਪੈਰੀਂ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤ ਮਨਾਵੈ।

ਹਉਂ ਭੀ ਮੁਹੁ ਨ ਜੁਠਾਲਸਾਂ ਤੂ ਰੁਠਾ ਮੈ ਕਿਹੁ ਨ ਸੁਖਾਵੈ।

ਗੋਸਾਈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਇ ਛਾਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਵੈ।

ਭੋਲਾ ਭਾਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥੧੩॥

If this doesn't satify POP(Picture/Pathar Opposing Party)....then you won't be satisfied at all...

Gud luck

[Gurpreet14]

i get inspired by painting which shows how our gurus gave their lifes... for religion n for truth for all rights n for what not.....

Pictures n paintings are essential to have as it gives outline to the people we praise....

its just a image that we should keep in our mind... a child cant understand why he should worship a book... Sorry to say - Guru Granth sahib is a book for a child.... the value is created when he starts understanding it... till that we need to make them understand about our religion- A child will ask who r our Gurus how they look... to just figure out what probably their look might be these pictures exist........

We dont do puja .. n kirtan n all dat infront of pictures. we just have them in our homes n this is just a kind of normal pictures to show people that dez kind of gurus we have......

Its not about worshiping,,,, being a human,,, we need to classify things with object but we worship only GURU GRANTH SAHIB G as per the hukam of our !0th Guru

I suffer with a kind of shivering in my body when i look at the pictures of our Gurus giving their life... like garam Tavi te Guru Teg Bahar jii di picture ....Baba deep singh g pic fighting with unheaded body.... Guru Gobind singh g di pic... where he stands like a warrior with a horse and baaz ... specifying sign of bravery...... these pictures inspires.... so y not to get inspired :D

Rethink once on pictures... who so ever have posted this topic... do whatever a weak with always worship materials n a strong always worship akal purakh,... do whatever u can this will not change

[Sherdil]

ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਧੰਨਾ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਣਿ ਆਵੈ ।

baamhanu poojai dayvatay dhannaa gaoo charaavani aavai|

A brahman would worship gods (in the form of stone idols) where Dhanna used to graze his cow.

ਧੰਨੈ ਡਿਠਾ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਏਹੁ ਪੂਛੈ ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ।

dhannai ditdaa chalitu ayhu poochhai baamhanu aakhi sunaavai|

On seeing his worship, Dhanna asked the brahman what he was doing.

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੇ ਜੋ ਇਛੈ ਸੋਈ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ ।

tdaakur dee sayvaa karay jo ichhai soee dhalu paavai|

“Service to the Thakur (God) gives the desired fruit,” replied the brahman.

ਧੰਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਜੋਦੜੀ ਮੈ ਭਿ ਦੇਹ ਇਕ ਜੇ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ।

dhannaa karadaa jodarhee mai bhi dayh ik jay tudhu bhaavai|

Dhanna requested, “O brahman, if you agree kindly give one to me.”

ਪਥਰੁ ਇਕੁ ਲਪੇਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇ ਧੰਨੈ ਨੋ ਗੈਲ ਛੁਡਾਵੈ ।

padaru iku|apayti kari day dhannai no gail chhudaavai|

The brahman rolled a stone, gave it to Dhanna and thus got rid of him.

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨੋ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਾਲਿ ਕੈ ਛਾਹਿ ਰੋਟੀ ਲੈ ਭੋਗੁ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਵੈ ।

tdaakur no nhaavaali kai chhaahi rotee|ai bhogu charhhaavai|

Dhanna bathed the Thakur and offered him bread and buttermilk.

ਹਥਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਿਨਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਵੈ ।

hadi jorhi minati karai pairee pai pai bahutu manaavai|

With folded hands and falling at the feet of the stone he begged for his service to be accepted.

ਹਉ ਭੀ ਮੁਹੁ ਨ ਜੁਠਾਲਸਾਂ ਤੂ ਰੁਠਾ ਮੈ ਕਿਹੁ ਨ ਸੁਖਾਵੈ ।

hau bhee muhu n jutdaalasaan too rutdaa mai kihu n sukhaavai|

Dhanna said, “I will also not eat because how can I be happy if you are annoyed.”

ਗੋਸਾਈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਹਿ ਛਾਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਵੈ ।

gosaaee paratakhi hoi rotee khaahi chhaahi muhi|aavai|

(Seeing his true and loving devotion) God was forced to appear and eat his bread and buttermilk.

ਭੋਲਾ ਭਾਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥੧੩॥

bholaa bhaau gobindu milaavai ॥13॥

In fact, innocence like that of Dhanna makes the sight of the Lord available.

The Brahman that gave Dhanna the statue was eating the offerings himself.

Dhanna was innocent and pure of heart, so when the statue didn't eat the food Dhanna offered it, then Dhanna decided not to eat either.

The Lord was pleased by Dhanna's innocence, and ate the food.

Thus, Dhanna's innocence was spared.

We do the same thing with children. Instead of telling them that someone has died, we tell them that they have gone on a long vacation. It is to spare their innocence. Eventually though, the children grow up and learn the truth.

Dhanna also matured and learned the truth.

Guru Nanak dev ji, Raag Bihaagraa, Pannaa 556

hi(n)dhoo moolae bhoolae akhuttee jaa(n)hee ||

The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way.

naaradh kehiaa s pooj karaa(n)hee || a(n)dhhae gu(n)gae a(n)dhh a(n)dhhaar ||

As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.

paathhar lae poojehi mugadhh gavaar ||

The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.

ouhi jaa aap ddubae thum kehaa tharanehaar ||2||

But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||

[S1ngh]

So...

Having pictures at home means that person is doing idol (photo) worship regardless of whether he is actually doing it or not?? This certainly does not make sense. I guess if such thing makes sense then maybe we need to take down all pictures of shaheeds from langar halls and probably stop and pull out production of animated movies and so on.. Oh wait that is what musalman are doing foe centuries. Yes pooja to material/product is plain wrong but don't mix or link families having photos in same category as with rare ppl who who do anti gurmat pooja stuff.

Tose who still believes purewal calendar makes sense, read this: http://sikhsangat.org/2012/purewal-calendar-created-to-divide-or-to-unite-sikhs/

Johal sahib, I still did not get your reply on how purewal uncle fixed dates on his nanakshahi calendar...

[tuhintuhin]

We do the same thing with children. Instead of telling them that someone has died, we tell them that they have gone on a long vacation. It is to spare their innocence. Eventually though, the children grow up and learn the truth.

the source or medium of Bhagat Dhanna's realization of waheguru was "pathar"........pathar was the starting point on this journey........if the start is wrong, the destination can never be achieved.......Bhagat Dhanna ji did it through pathar.....

any medium or source that lead us to Waheguru can not be bad......it's a different thing that later on, when one gets to a higher spiritual level....person doesn't need this....but for the starting, depending on the individual's level, one need something as a support.....

[Sherdil]

the source or medium of Bhagat Dhanna's realization of waheguru was "pathar"........pathar was the starting point on this journey........if the start is wrong, the destination can never be achieved.......Bhagat Dhanna ji did it through pathar.....

The whole idea of the pathar being God was a lie, as the Brahman was eating the offerings himself.

God ate Dhanna's offering to spare his innocence, so that Dhanna wouldn't be exposed to the deceitful ways of this world.

[Sherdil]

The first step is not murti pooja. It is living in the world and doing good deeds and righteous actions/

Guru ji explains that by doing this, one reaches the first khand (out of five), which is called Dharam Khand.

Guru Nanak dev ji, Jap ji Sahib, Pannaa 7

raathee ruthee thhithee vaar ||

Nights, days, weeks and seasons;

pavan paanee aganee paathaal ||

wind, water, fire and the nether regions

this vich dhharathee thhaap rakhee dhharam saal ||

in the midst of these, He established the earth as a home for Dharma.

this vich jeea jugath kae ra(n)g ||

Upon it, He placed the various species of beings.

thin kae naam anaek ana(n)th ||

Their names are uncounted and endless.

karamee karamee hoe veechaar ||

By their deeds and their actions, they shall be judged.

[Sherdil]

So...

Having pictures at home means that person is doing idol (photo) worship regardless of whether he is actually doing it or not?? This certainly does not make sense. I guess if such thing makes sense then maybe we need to take down all pictures of shaheeds from langar halls and probably stop and pull out production of animated movies and so on.. Oh wait that is what musalman are doing foe centuries. Yes pooja to material/product is plain wrong but don't mix or link families having photos in same category as with rare ppl who who do anti gurmat pooja stuff.

Tose who still believes purewal calendar makes sense, read this: http://sikhsangat.org/2012/purewal-calendar-created-to-divide-or-to-unite-sikhs/

Johal sahib, I still did not get your reply on how purewal uncle fixed dates on his nanakshahi calendar...

Tuhi Tuhi said that worshipping stone idols is okay. I was replying to him.

Talk about knee j e r k reactions. Who said anything about shaheeds or animated movies?

We are talking about people praying in front of portraits of the Gurus. This is clearly wrong, because the portrait is not our Guru. Unlike Guru Granth Sahib, a portrait cannot give you guidance.

You want a representation of Guru Nanak? Then go read Guru Granth Sahib. His teachings are represented there.

Give me a better solution to stop people from praying to these portraits. How will you educate them?

[S1ngh]

Just took another look at the topic heading which is: "Say No to Guru's Pictures" and there are many replies in this thread which clearly states to take off pictures off the wall regardless whether they worship them or not. My question to those veer: Is it ok for folks to have pictures of guru sahibs on the wall if they are not worshipping? If you or other got the urge to say "Yes" to that question then wouldn't it be same to ask vismaad and other film makers to stop using purtaan gursikh sikh characters such as chottay sahibzaaday, bhai taru singh and so on?

Maybe i misunderstood you or others but make it clear whether you oppose of having guru jees picture in home of folks who do picture worship OR you just plainly want to see NO pictures of guru sahib jees in any home, gurdwara at all?

Regarding those ppl who says praying in front of photo/statue is okay then I humbly request them is to go back and do fresh start in learning sikh dharam.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

Johal sahib, I still did not get your reply on how purewal uncle fixed dates on his nanakshahi calendar...

Purewal uncle:

I am in favor of setting gurpurab's on fixed dates. Exactly what are the basis of purewal uncle calender(calculation's) I don't know but his basis to begun from is Guru Nanak Sahib ji's birth date, but rejection of his calendar was mere political, we even cleberated gurpurab's according to nanakshahi clendar, leaving aside two takhts outside punjab and link you provided is just a prime example to how we reject things which are brought up by people we didn't think good about, bikarmi dates in hukamnaam's and in gurbani, so GURU SAHIB ACTUALLY DIDN'T APPRECIATED GREGORIAN CALENDAR OR IT WAS NOT IN USE IN INDIA. On and off it was made clear Say no to Guru's picture and any pic depicting sikh history or any animation is ok.

@tuhintuhin gurbani says pathar aap dub jaanda hai twanu ki taruga.

Tomorrow you will put forward this vaar and will get pathar in gurdwara. Rabb tere vich vasda hai, sab vich vasda hai. GURBANI aage maatha teken naal rab nahi milda, gurbani pad ke us te chal ke rab milda hai. Ye aapji dhane di tarah GURU GRANTH SAHIB aage aad ke beh jao, rab tuhadi dil di pukar sunega eh ni dekhega tusi kithe baithe ho. "JEH JEH DEKHA TEH TEH SWAMI, GHAT GHAT RAWAYA ANTARJAAMI". This is the spiritual stage you need to be at, frankly speaking after reading gurbani. Whereever you see, you see allmighty. Gurbani pad ke argument karke saadi spirituality da andaaza te log aap hi laa lenge, appa dono ek hi jagah vich haan. :biggrin2: