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Turiya is the chautha padh or 4th state of consciousness.

This is when one can transcend Maya completely.

It is not the same as mukhti since that is salvation.or complete freedom and immersion with Guruji.

The 4th state of consciousness comes before Mukhti

When mukhti happens then one's consciousness is merged with the supreme consciousness.

The question you ask is a good one and I don't have the full answer because sikhi is not about the mukhti described above.???

Although sikhi accepts the ancient concept of mukhti but this mukhti is AFTER you die.

Whereas sikhi instructs us about JEEVAN MUKHTI- or salvation whilst alive.

This also means to be DEAD WHILST ALIVE !!

The BIG QUESTION is what is the real difference between Jeevan mukhti and Turiya ???

I have come to conclude and accept that there is a very thin line between both.

Once you have reached Turiya or the 4th state, then you have completely detached yourself from MAYA. This means you don't see your mother as your mother, your don't see your father any different, You don't see your enemy any different to your son/daughter..etc.. YOU SEE and ACCEPT ALL as ONE.

NO MAYA means NO DUALITY.

IS this the ULTIMATE ????

NO, I don't think so. Because you are still you, you still have the little ego that defines you, your name, status..etc..

The Only thing left after complete detachment from maya is to SUBMIT yourself COMPLETELY to his HUKAM.

This means No worrying about what or how you are to live your future days, you submit all your MIND,BODY and SOUL.

to HIS HUKAM or Divine will.

Makes you realise how hard it really is to submit your Head to Guruji during amrit, do we all stay and continue as if we have permanently submitted our heads ????

Is our head really, always still in his hands or was it just during amrit sanchar ??

Not easy to answer is it because this is what differentiates a gursikh from a gurmukh.

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My god this post was brilliant....Thank you for explaining!!!

What other stages are there?

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Turiya is the chautha padh or 4th state of consciousness.

This is when one can transcend Maya completely.

It is not the same as mukhti since that is salvation.or complete freedom and immersion with Guruji.

The 4th state of consciousness comes before Mukhti

When mukhti happens then one's consciousness is merged with the supreme consciousness.

The question you ask is a good one and I don't have the full answer because sikhi is not about the mukhti described above.???

Although sikhi accepts the ancient concept of mukhti but this mukhti is AFTER you die.

Whereas sikhi instructs us about JEEVAN MUKHTI- or salvation whilst alive.

This also means to be DEAD WHILST ALIVE !!

The BIG QUESTION is what is the real difference between Jeevan mukhti and Turiya ???

I have come to conclude and accept that there is a very thin line between both.

Once you have reached Turiya or the 4th state, then you have completely detached yourself from MAYA. This means you don't see your mother as your mother, your don't see your father any different, You don't see your enemy any different to your son/daughter..etc.. YOU SEE and ACCEPT ALL as ONE.

NO MAYA means NO DUALITY.

IS this the ULTIMATE ????

NO, I don't think so. Because you are still you, you still have the little ego that defines you, your name, status..etc..

The Only thing left after complete detachment from maya is to SUBMIT yourself COMPLETELY to his HUKAM.

This means No worrying about what or how you are to live your future days, you submit all your MIND,BODY and SOUL.

to HIS HUKAM or Divine will.

Makes you realise how hard it really is to submit your Head to Guruji during amrit, do we all stay and continue as if we have permanently submitted our heads ????

Is our head really, always still in his hands or was it just during amrit sanchar ??

Not easy to answer is it because this is what differentiates a gursikh from a gurmukh.

Is that not the same as Karam khand, the abode/state before one reaches Sach Khand ?

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Is that not the same as Karam khand, the abode/state before one reaches Sach Khand ?

It is the same in that once one is in karam kand/sach khand they are also jeevan mukht and in turiya avastha.

However, these terms are not interchangeable as such but they overlap until eventually there is one state.

I may be wrong, but I studied all this a while back and it was quite difficult to get your head around it. There are lots of refences out there but most drift away from gurmat and get you confused. Gurbani mentions all of these in different areas, so if you look at them carefully without interchanging, then you begin to get the idea.

The khand realms are stages attained from bhaghti- in simple words. When one gets to karam khand wich is before sach khand, then one is filled with divine grace.

The person is also ner completely self-realised.

Remember that this stage is attained by devotion and bhagti compared to realising and detaching from maya as in turiya avastha.

They do overlap very much, but all of us start and approach from different angles.

This is why the old yogis would go and hide away in caves away from the world, because their approach was to get out of the maya illusion as much as possible as a starting point.

A gursikh is to live in the world ocean of maya but rise above it like a water bubble to get across.- However, still remaining attached to the rest of the ocean.

Personally, I find that each approach helps the other.Such that devotion and bhagti will automatically help you begin untie yourself from maya. But you can also do this by conquering the 3 worlds of maya and then rising to the 4th state. or turiya avastha.

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Saram khand and karam khand are combine together in a sense that you do the saram, he will bless you with his karam

and this can be also called tooriya you rise above maya.

Need to research and discuss more on this topic.

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Gurbani says chautha pad is last stage.

चउथे सुंनै जो नरु जाणै ता कउ पापु न पुंनं ॥
Cẖa▫uthe sunnai jo nar jāṇai ṯā ka▫o pāp na puʼnnaʼn.
One who knows the Lord in the fourth state, is not subject to virtue or vice.
घटि घटि सुंन का जाणै भेउ ॥
Gẖat gẖat sunn kā jāṇai bẖe▫o.
One who knows the mystery of God the Absolute, who pervades each and every heart,
आदि पुरखु निरंजन देउ ॥
Āḏ purakẖ niranjan ḏe▫o.
knows the Primal Being, the Immaculate Divine Lord.
जो जनु नाम निरंजन राता ॥
Jo jan nām niranjan rāṯā.
That humble being who is imbued with the Immaculate Naam,
नानक सोई पुरखु बिधाता ॥५१॥
Nānak so▫ī purakẖ biḏẖāṯā. ||51||
O Nanak, is himself the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny. ||51||

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Saram khand and karam khand are combine together in a sense that you do the saram, he will bless you with his karam

and this can be also called tooriya you rise above maya.

Need to research and discuss more on this topic.

I think that Saram Khand is before Karam khand.

From what I gather , Saram khand = with spiritual efforts

Karam khad= his grace

In order we have, - Dharam khand = realm of Moral duty

Gian khand = realm of spiritual knowledge

Saram khand = realm of spiritual effort

Karam Khand = realm of divine grace

Sach khand = realm of Truth

the stages between saram, karam and sach khand are very close together compared to the first two which are Dharam and Gian khand

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I think that Saram Khand is before Karam khand.

From what I gather , Saram khand = with spiritual efforts

Karam khad= his grace

In order we have, - Dharam khand = realm of Moral duty

Gian khand = realm of spiritual knowledge

Saram khand = realm of spiritual effort

Karam Khand = realm of divine grace

Sach khand = realm of Truth

the stages between saram, karam and sach khand are very close together compared to the first two which are Dharam and Gian khand

Agree.

My point was you do Saram first he will bless(karam

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Agree.

My point was you do Saram first he will bless(karam

Gurdeepji, I'm not saying you are wrong and neither was I trying to correct you.

(I don't ever try to correct, but try to give a valid point if possible!)

I respect the way you apply gurmat thinking into all topics and issues to justify your answers. This attitude gives you better and stronger answers than most learned members on here.

You are one of the rare few sikhs who sticks strictly with Nanakian philosophy and I admire you for that.

If ALL sikhs did this, then we would never have the problems and divides that we face today!!

The answers are ALWAYS in the Gurbani and you know that. There are too many sikhs that blindly follow some leaned person's katha and rely on that MORE than Gurbani itself.

I personally have seen and proved to myself that kathas can be misleading and off track somewhat.

Gurbani is there in black and white for the individual to learn for him/her self.

However, with issues like this topic, we have to go further and learn about these terms from other references. I find that you know yourself if you have gone far enough to learn when a reference occurs or pops up in gurbani and you understand it better.

I did say that this is a rather complicated issue for most of us and I tried to simplify it a little for all of us.

Gurbani looks and references many ancient vedic concepts and even yogic concepts. It does it in such a clever way that it doesn't reject them outright in any way.

An approach looking at the 3 gunas of maya and then having the 4th state that is beyond the influence of the 3 gunas, is the chautha padda or 4th state of consciousness.This is the same as the turiya avastha state or the turiya jagraat (awakening)

Yet it also mentions the realms and the same or similar stage attained after self effort of bhaghti.

Then it will also mention the ypgic effort and the different stages they do it through...etc...etc...

BUT, what is important throughout gurbani is exactly what is at the very begining, which is 'EK ONKAAR'

You see in the end, the sant doing bhagti, the gurmukh living the gurmukh way, the yogi doing his yoga...etc..etc... they ALL end up at ''EK ONKAAR''

This is why I said that the terms are not interchangeab;e, ie. you can't substitute the turiya state for the self effort 'realm of khand''... because then the stages that you look at won't make sense.

So, if the end goal is the letter O, for origin, Then all the other 25 letters of the alphabet can get there..ie.. A to O, B to O, C to O,...etc..

In the same way the approach can be avastha,consciousness,yogic or realms but the END result is the SAME.

The end result is the same as the beginning which is 'EK ONKAAR"

You are correct that further study is required to undertstand this topic more thoroughly, as most of us only know it from the surface.

Nevertheless, most of us can still have a good discussion about it to further our learning.

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Turiya state is jevan mukht stage or bhramgyan stage. Where individual stays in this world in sehaj samadhi with dual consciouness (not literally but lack of better word just to explain)-
One consciouness is to engage in worldly duties/body functions just as an duty without any attachement or desire as just as witness/shaksi as supreme consciouness is always awaken sees everything.
Other half of consciouness fully merged with vahiguroo/real self-atma-paratma.
Saint or bhramgyani with jevan mukht state have destroyed their mind made out of rajo, tamo, satogun but still operates only in satogun at their will/hakum, with their dual consciousness in turiya avastha for worldy duties
Now after turiya avastha there is another state its called turiya tith avastha or bedah mukht avastha where saint have totally destroyed their mind made of- rajo, tamo, sato/maya and also rose totally above from jagrath, suupan, sukhopat avastha..in that state usually there is no coming back to normal state, they are pure existence supreme consciousness awareness bliss, some of saints in that state- their disciples feed them forcefully just to keep them alive otherwise usually they release their body pretty soon this is not be confused with state of being in samadhi for 6 months or years, they are usually at dasam dwaur as dasam dwaur provide nourishment to an individual bodily needs- thrist, food etc..bhramgyan is state beyond dasam dwar or panch shabad dhuniyas etc
Difference between turiya avastha (jevan mukht/sehaj samadhi avastha) and turiya tith avastha (bedah mukht avastha) is difference of will of an saint based on hakum not difference of gatti (higher or lower), both state is same, not higher or lower. It's just many saints based on hakum of vahiguroo stay longer in sehaj or turiya avastha to benefit human kind and other go in turiya tith state to release their body based on hakum.

Please see below for more information on bhramgyani state and dual consciousness:
This is must listen. Please listen to audio by sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale regarding characteristics of Jevan Mukht and Bedah Mukht. Basically people who cannot understand punjabi...i will try to explain as much my buddhi can:
Jevan Mukht- A person who is jevan mukht stays in sehaj avastha, have double consciousnesses, can engage in worldly duties because their sattvic mind(satoguni mind) is still there to do parchar/spread love/kindness to this world, rajo and tamogun portion of mind its destroyed.
Bedah Mukht- A person who is bedah mukht can only survive days, they are in nirvkalap samadhi(non transcendental meditative state), they have totally negate their mind (made of rajo, tamo, sato), antish karan, there is no coming back, they cannot do kriya on their own, their disciples try to feed them just to keep them alive to see them in smadhi.
Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawale said in divan, he came across with such one person of bedah mukht avastha who was at bedah muhkht avastha at haridvar, there were lines of people who were awaiting to do their darshan.
People who don't beleive in great sakhiya baba deep singh ji cutting their head and fighting or bhai mani singh shaheedi should research more on bedah mukht avastha before getting stuck in web of sansas(doubts).
Edited by N30S1NGH

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Turiya state is jevan mukht stage or bhramgyan stage. Where individual stays in this world in sehaj samadhi with dual consciouness (not literally but lack of better word just to explain)-
One consciouness is to engage in worldly duties/body functions just as an duty without any attachement or desire as just as witness/shaksi as supreme consciouness is always awaken sees everything.
Other half of consciouness fully merged with vahiguroo/real self-atma-paratma.
Saint or bhramgyani with jevan mukht state have destroyed their mind made out of rajo, tamo, satogun but still operates only in satogun at their will/hakum, with their dual consciousness in turiya avastha for worldy duties
Now after turiya avastha there is another state its called turiya tith avastha or bedah mukht avastha where saint have totally destroyed their mind made of- rajo, tamo, sato/maya and also rose totally above from jagrath, suupan, sukhopat avastha..in that state usually there is no coming back to normal state, they are pure existence supreme consciousness awareness bliss, some of saints in that state- their disciples feed them forcefully just to keep them alive otherwise usually they release their body pretty soon this is not be confused with state of being in samadhi for 6 months or years, they are usually at dasam dwaur as dasam dwaur provide nourishment to an individual bodily needs- thrist, food etc..bhramgyan is state beyond dasam dwar or panch shabad dhuniyas etc
Difference between turiya avastha (jevan mukht/sehaj samadhi avastha) and turiya tith avastha (bedah mukht avastha) is difference of will of an saint based on hakum not difference of gatti (higher or lower), both state is same, not higher or lower. It's just many saints based on hakum of vahiguroo stay longer in sehaj or turiya avastha to benefit human kind and other go in turiya tith state to release their body based on hakum.

Guru Sahib made things easy.

Brahamgyani makes things complicated.

Edited by gurdeepsinghjohal

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