How the taliban are successful against the invading western forces

[genie]

I've been analyzing the situation of the taliban in Afghanistan and how our own Khalistan forces of the past have the same sort of determination and faith when engaging the enemy foe. Obviously we have massive difference in faith / ideology and war/ peace time codes of conduct however we can now see in this corrupt world were the rich get richer and poor get poorer and the major powers of the day do not want to let the smaller nations breath the air of freedom and independence .....only through military force do things change drastically politically and the aggressors are forced to the negotiating table after they have seen they cant win with their foolish violence oppression and state terrorism against the population of a targeted community.

The taliban will take over Afghanistan once the Americans and other nato forces leave, its only a matter of time. Looking back at the Khalistan forces they had the same determination to shake off the shackles of the occupying genocidal imperialist power (indian government) but lacked funds, numbers, advanced military training, lack of geo-political allies. The taliban are lucky they have covert supply chains from pakistan's ISI, Russia, Iran, arab / muslim countries, muslim NGO's, have enough numbers (ie indigenous pasthuns of the area), terrain they know well, etc.

Just wondered if Sikhs were not located in such a messed up in geo-political set up stemming from the mistakes of 1947 .... Khalistan would have been established by now especially by exercise of arms.

[VanHelsingh]

Good question. I've been pondering this issue myself, and I think where we fail is not through the determination or intelligence of our enemy, but the fact is we are betrayed by our own fellow Sikhs time and time again. Panjab Police was, and is, composed of Sikhs that have absolutely no compunction in detaining, torturing, and killing other Sikhs at the behest of the government. Why? Personal gain such as possible promotions, increased standing amongst superiors, juicy pensions, etc. We are not united. That is not to say Muslims jihadists are all sailing in the same boat, but with our lot you just can't predict when you're going to be sold out by someone who's been bought. A prolonged, painful, and tough insurgency cannot succeed when the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against a small number of individuals who wish to affect change. Bottom line: trust. We are fickle, greedy, and materialistic. You can't win freedom when you're constantly looking over your shoulder expecting the worst from the very people you're fighting for.

[Jonny101]

As you've mentioned, the Kharkoo Singhs were just as determined and motivated. But in the end some factors went against us. One, Punjab does not have dense jungles or mountains. If we had jungles like the LTTE did Sri Lanka or currently the Naxalites in India, no way anyone could have beaten the Sikhs. If not jungles, then atleast mountains like the Taliban have in Afghanistan from where they hide and launch their attacks. But Sikhs had neither of these advantages. Instead Sikhs had to rely on the good will of the people of Punjab to give them shelter. Many times, some villager(called a Taut) would inform the police and have the Kharkoo killed. The police had created such a network of Tauts all over Punjab that every village had a Taut who would inform the police about the happenings of the village and collect his reward money. It is difficult to carry out an effective querilla warfare under such disadvantage.

[VanHelsingh]

False encounters swung the pendulum in favour of the authorities IMO. Where's the honour in that? :blush2:

[HSD2]

The Indians are masters of low cost warfare, something they inherited from the British. If anyone causes problems internally, they can be overwhelmed with masses of police, paramilitaries and soldiers who are cheap to train and equip. A low level insurgency with no understanding of supply/logistics, intelligence, engineering etc is always doomed to fail. A major enemy with sophisticated equipment, training and organisation would cut through them even if the odds might seem in India's favour, like during the war with China. To contrast Hindustan with the old Mughalstan, the Mughals spent too much on their own decadence. India is poor, the people there will always do anything for a quick buck.

The Americans on the other hand, unlike the Indians, spend ridiculously high amounts on their armed forces and they end up with the exact opposite problem. No one dares take them on with tanks, surface groups, fighter jets or missiles, but their enemies know if they stretch them out far enough and for long enough they can bankrupt them. Fighting for short term goals against the Yanks would be just half a strike.

[SunSingh]

Actually, despite the lack of forest cover the movement gained a lot of ground. The turning point against the movement happened when the kharkoos convinced the Punjab populace to boycott the elections. Baba Thakur Singh ji Bhindrenvale told people to take part in the elections b/c a boycott would set the movement back by a huge amount. The kharkoos and the people ignored the bachans of a bhramgyani. Thinking they knew better they boycotted the elections and Congress was elected. The election of Congress turned the tide against the Khalsa b/c of all their low tactics.

[WaljinderSingh]

Actually, despite the lack of forest cover the movement gained a lot of ground. The turning point against the movement happened when the kharkoos convinced the Punjab populace to boycott the elections. Baba Thakur Singh ji Bhindrenvale told people to take part in the elections b/c a boycott would set the movement back by a huge amount. The kharkoos and the people ignored the bachans of a bhramgyani. Thinking they knew better they boycotted the elections and Congress was elected. The election of Congress turned the tide against the Khalsa b/c of all their low tactics.

When will the movement start again?

[Jonny101]

Actually, despite the lack of forest cover the movement gained a lot of ground. The turning point against the movement happened when the kharkoos convinced the Punjab populace to boycott the elections. Baba Thakur Singh ji Bhindrenvale told people to take part in the elections b/c a boycott would set the movement back by a huge amount. The kharkoos and the people ignored the bachans of a bhramgyani. Thinking they knew better they boycotted the elections and Congress was elected. The election of Congress turned the tide against the Khalsa b/c of all their low tactics.

True. This was one of the major factors for the downfall of the movement. Sikhs should never have boycotted the elections, consequently making the congress win. Actually we can say there were a number of reasons for the downfall to have happened.

-Boycotting elections. Congress of Beanta should not have won.

-Lack of forest, mountain cover was also a contributing factor because it meant Kharkoos had to depend on the good will of the people for their survival. People also have Tauts amongst them.

-Benazir Bhutto going against the ISI, and betraying the Sikhs. She not only shared intelligence with the GOI, but even handed over some Kharkoos to the Indian security forces who were later all killed. In the end, look how Karma got her back.

-The Punjab police. They were also overwhelmingly Sikhs. So the war between PP and Kharkoos, both sides were Sikhs. Any side that were killed, it was essentially Sikhs that were dying. In the early years of Kharkoo movement, many PP men were sympathizers of the Kharkoos and would even provide them with intelligence People like KPS gill knew this, so he started to make his black cats(fake kharkoos) kill PP families to turn PP totally against the Kharkoos.

[VanHelsingh]

When will the movement start again?

It won't --- well, not from within Panjab at least. :strong:

It's like wishing to re-learn the piano after 20 years of not touching the darn thing. You can't just settle into that groove overnight. There's so many mitigating factors that mean any such movements will be severely hampered by the modern-day situation in Panjab, namely the lack of desire on the part of the population of Panjab to weather the storm and see the thing through until the end. The aim should be to join people with Sikhi, and improve their circumstances in their daily lives, i.e. education, standard of living, etc. Another period of unrest will all but finish off Panjab for good. Our propensity for wrongdoing is the true root of why Guru Sahib is disappointed with us. If we (and those of them living over there) took responsibility for living and conducting themselves in a truly Sikh way we'd be unstoppable. A small minority of dedicated Singhs with the best of intentions can't change the gundh that has rotted the hearts and minds of the rest of the Sikh population.

[Jonny101]

When will the movement start again?

Rather that trying to restart another armed movement, I think we should on doing parchar and increase our demographic count. Look at muslims, it's only because of their high population they managed to get Pakistan. Parchar right now is the only thing we should concentrate on.