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is dhunda doing katha in delhi gurudwara anymore?


Pappi9
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why are the rules on sikhsangat bent for a few ? dass is really sad heartned seeing these posts by uk london guy always putting himself in a position to question baani, guru gobind singh ji couldnt do this, he couldn't do that...really?.....you will tell us what guru gobind singh ji can't and can do ? this is not gurmat but this is manmat..whatever you don't like you will discard.....i see no difference when missionaries question shaheedi of guru arjan dev ji maharaj

benti to sikhsangat don't flex the rules for some, this person has countlessly doubted baani on here on too many threads and most of it seems to be ignored..creating shankas of all sorts when will some further action be taken ?

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LF = dass is really sad heartned seeing these posts by uk london guy always putting himself in a position to question baani,

UK = I have never questioned Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj nor anything Maharaj has said.

LF = guru gobind singh ji couldnt do this, he couldn't do that

UK = That's your manmat belief Ladli Paji. My belief and reverence for Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj is unbounded

LF = tell us what guru gobind singh ji can't and can do ? this is not gurmat but this is manmat..

UK = Exactly Ladli Paji who are you to determine what Dasme PaathShah did prior to GurGaddi?

LF = i see no difference when missionaries question shaheedi of guru arjan dev ji maharaj

UK = I believe in the shaheedi of Dhan Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj. If you Ladli don't then that's your belief.

LF = benti to sikhsangat don't flex the rules for some, this person has countlessly doubted baani on here on too many threads and most of it seems to be ignored..creating shankas of all sorts when will some further action be taken ?

UK = Even the Taliban permit more debate than you (because they have strength in their convictions to a greater degree). A GurSikh should never be scared of open and honest discourse. If you're scared of communicating with me, I worry how you will handle Muslims, Christians and Hindu's?

UK = Nothing personal Paji but please may I humbly request you never to accuse me of not having full faith and reverence for Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, the blessed founder of the Khalsa Panth at Sri Anandpur Sahib. Rabh Rakha

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aint no one afraid to debate uklondonsikh, the bani your questioning on here (bachitar natak) i listen to everyday, i've had numerous debates on bachitar natak, in past 2013 iv had 0, reason being i don't even look at the faces of those doubting gurbani, you don't believe in dasam bani to be guru gobind singh ji maharajs thats why you think you are not doubting what guru gobind singh ji maharaj has sad, either way if my believing in bachitar natak is manmat, yes equally yours not believing is manmat as well, i personally have found 0 positive outcomes while discussing bachitar natak specifically with those questioning it, my comment was straight to mods, seen this too many times with the same user, still hold same message to mods to not hold back on certain people questioning bani,

, baki i suggest you find proper arths and like others said meet giani sher singh, listin to katha on bachitar nataksant jarnail your questions would be answered by those willing to further deal with such ppl...and another thing dont take no ones silence as a weakness of lack of vichar... staying away from what i perceive as nindaks is best option, though i won't shy away from atleast asking mods to take further action on those continously question gurbani (what is most impt to me in life). Not engaging is also a desicion and many times a hard one cuzz its tempting to bring points down, but iv grown into the habbit of what i call letting people keep themselves busy in their own shankas, though its also impt to make an effort to keep such people away from the younger sikhs...getting some action taken on a user is seperate from not being able to vichar, lets see how above mentioned vichar by other users on has changed any views, a endless foolish cycle, takes 1 questioner to create shanka and mislead the newer ones to sikhi...baaki like i said i dont find it proper to deal with such frequent questioners of dasam bani esp those whoes real views could be more extreme.

yes it would be weakest answer to you as im asking mods to take further action on you, not engaging was my choice and not why i commented, only commented to suggest mods to not turn a blind eye to such people, others as well.

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UKlondon sikh

Problem with you is that you pick few lines at random and quote them out of context to forward your agenda.Read the entire chapter and see the conclusion. Conclusion is King Rama's family fought for land, wealth and material possessions for centuries.The result was they were decimated and left with only twenty villages in the end.They are forgotten like all earthly kings. This is what Guru sahib writes in Dasam Granth sahib about these worldly creatures King rama family.

ਬਹੁਰ ਬਿਖਾਦ ਬਾਧਿਯੰ ॥

ਕਿਨੀ ਨ ਤਾਹਿ ਸਾਧਿਯੰ ॥

There arose again quarrels and enmities,

there was none to defuse the situation.

ਕਰੰਮ ਕਾਲ ਯੌਂ ਭਈ ॥

ਸੁ ਭੂਮਿ ਬੰਸ ਤੇ ਗਈ ॥੧॥

>In due course of time it actually happened that the Bedi caln lost its kingdom.1.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

ਬਿਪ੍ਰ ਕਰਤ ਭਏ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਬੈਸਨ ਕਰਮ ॥

>The Vaishyas acted like Shudras and Kshatriyas like Vaishyas.

>ਬੈਸ ਕਰਤ ਭਏ ਛਤ੍ਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਸੁ ਦਿਜ ਕੋ ਧਰਮ ॥੨॥

>The Vaishyas acted like Kshatriyas and Shudras like Brahmins.2.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

ਬੀਸ ਗਾਵ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥

ਜਿਨ ਮੋ ਕਰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਾਨੀ ਭਏ ॥

Only twenty villages were left with the Bedis,

where they became agriculturists.

ਬਹੁਤ ਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਿਤਾਯੋ ॥

ਜਨਮ ਸਮੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋ ਆਯੋ ॥੩॥

A long time passed like this till the birth of Nanak.3.

Bachitra natak, Dasam Granth

Then he writes that Guru Nanak dev ji though born in Bedi clan ( clan and family are not one and samething) spread Dhrama among his followers. Thus giving a heavenly comfort to them which one cann't find in material possessionsIn continuation of above Guru sahib writes

>ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

>ਤਿਨ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀ ਕੁਲ ਬਿਖੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਇ ॥

>Nanak Rai took birth in the Bedi clan.

>ਸਭ ਸਿੱਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੁਖ ਦਏ ਜਹ ਤਹ ਭਏ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੪॥

He brought comfort to all his disciples and helped them at all times.4.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

ਤਿਨ ਇਹ ਕਲ ਮੋ ਧਰਮੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥

ਸਭ ਸਾਧਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹੁ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥

>Guru Nanak spread Dharma in the Iron age and put the seekers on the path.

>ਜੋ ਤਾਂ ਕੇ ਮਾਰਗ ਮਹਿ ਆਏ ॥

ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸੰਤਾਏ ॥੫॥

>Those who followed the path propagated by him,

were never harmed by the vices.5.

>ਜੇ ਜੇ ਪੰਥ ਤਵਨ ਕੇ ਪਰੇ ॥

ਪਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਰੇ ॥

>All those who came within his fold, they were absolved of all their sins and troubles,

>ਦੂਖ ਭੂਖ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਸੰਤਾਏ ॥

ਜਾਲ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਬੀਚ ਨ ਆਏ ॥੬

>Their sorrows, their wants were vanished and even their transmigration came to and end.6.

Bachitra natak

It is a comparison between earthly king like Rama and house of Guru Nanak emphasizing that house of Guru Nanak is flourishing as it is path of saintlyhood wheras descents of Rama are finished and were left with only twenty villages.

Read whole of bachitra natak, Guru sahib denounces caste affiliations in strongest terms and also denounce so called these avtars of Hinduism including King Rama.

>ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਾਚ ਇਸ ਕੀਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ॥

>The Words of the Non-temporal Lord to this insect

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥

ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

>Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless),

Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

>ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

>Brahma called himself Para Brahman,

none could comprehend the Lord.8.

>ਜਿਨਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਨਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਕੋ ਪਾਯੋ ॥

ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥

>Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own ptah.

ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥

ਮਮ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਦਿਵਾਨਾ ॥੧੬॥

>None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with `I-ness`.16.

>Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within himself.

ਪਰਮ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਜਿਨ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿ ਈਸਰ ਤਿਨ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥

परम तत को जिन न पछाना ॥ तिन करि ईसर तिन कहु माना ॥

Those who did not comprehend the Lord, they were considered as Ishvara.

>ਤਬ ਜੇ ਜੇ ਰਿਖਿ ਰਾਜ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਆਪਨ ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਚਲਾਏ ॥੧੭॥

>All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Smritis.17.

>ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥

ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥

All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord.

>ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੧੮॥

>Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥

ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥

Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them.

ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥

जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥

Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19.

ਜਿਨ ਮਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥

जिन मति बेद कतेबन तिआगी ॥ पारब्रहम के भए अनुरागी ॥

Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of God.

ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਗੂੜ ਮਤਿ ਜੇ ਚਲਹੀ ॥ ਭਾਤਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਦੁਖਨ ਸੋ ਦਲਹੀ ॥੨੦॥

तिन के गूड़ मति जे चलही ॥ भाति अनेक दुखन सो दलही ॥२०॥

Whosoever follows their path, he crushes various types of sufferings.20.

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਜਾਤਨ ਸੰਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਛੋਡਤ ਨੇਹ ॥

जे जे सहित जातन संदेहि ॥ प्रभ को संगि न छोडत नेह ॥

Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord.

ਤੇ ਤੇ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰੀ ਕਹ ਜਾਹੀ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕਛੁ ਨਾਹੀਂ ॥੨੧॥

ते ते परम पुरी कह जाही ॥ तिन हरि सिउ अंतरु कछु नाहीं ॥२१॥

When they leave the world, they go to the abode of the Lord, and there is no difference between them and the Lord.21.

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਜੀਯ ਜਾਤਨ ਤੇ ਡਰੈ ॥ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਤਜਿ ਤਿਨ ਮਗਿ ਪਰੈ ॥

जे जे जीय जातन ते डरै ॥ परम पुरख तजि तिन मगि परै ॥

Those who fear the castes and follow their path, abandoning the Supreme Lord.

ਤੇ ਤੇ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੋ ਪਰਹੀ ॥ ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਜਗ ਮੋ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੨੨॥

ते ते नरक कुंड मो परही ॥ बार बार जग मो बपु धरही ॥२२॥

They fall into hell and transmigrate again and again.22.

>Bachitra natak, Dasam Granth

Sit back at ease , read above and digest it.It is a slap on face of your rama and his clan and also so called Brahma,vishnu and mahesh. So understand what Guru sahib writes about them instead of harping on one thing out of context.

Sure if you criticize Bani of khalsa you will be treated this way only. There have been countless Gurmukhs who have realized God and they do read Bachitra natak bani everyday. Bhai sahib Bhai randhir singh was one of them. Are you here to tell us that you know better than them.

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, baki i suggest you find proper arths and like others said meet giani sher singh, listin to katha on bachitar nataksant jarnail your questions would be answered by those willing to further deal with such ppl...and another thing dont take no ones silence as a weakness of lack of vichar... staying away from what i perceive as nindaks is best option, though i won't shy away from atleast asking mods to take further action on those continously question gurbani (what is most impt to me in life). Not engaging is also a desicion and many times a hard one cuzz its tempting to bring points down, but iv grown into the habbit of what i call letting people keep themselves busy in their own shankas, though its also impt to make an effort to keep such people away from the younger sikhs...getting some action taken on a user is seperate from not being able to vichar, lets see how above mentioned vichar by other users on has changed any views, a endless foolish cycle, takes 1 questioner to create shanka and mislead the newer ones to sikhi...baaki like i said i dont find it proper to deal with such frequent questioners of dasam bani esp those whoes real views could be more extreme.

yes it would be weakest answer to you as im asking mods to take further action on you, not engaging was my choice and not why i commented, only commented to suggest mods to not turn a blind eye to such people, others as well.

He will not answer about meeting Giani sher singh ji as he is a fake posing as a sikh.

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What made me laugh so much was the imbecility of uklondons gurus (dhunda et all), when they said that because the banis have different dates in their compositions they cannot be considered to be by one author.

they are a joke, but a dangerous one, because they have caused serious rifts in the panth.

He is taking cover of Dhundha to widen that rift. He has another agenda also. He says whole India is sikh. People who smoke and believe in Hinduism are also sikhs. He gives arguement that sikhs number will rise. That is what RSS says that all those living in India are primarily Hindus and for that they say Hinduism is not a religion but primarily Indian civilization.His opposition to Dasam Granth sahib is primarily rooted in their design that this granth teaches sikhs to resist tyranny and infuses Bir Rass for dharam yudh ka chao.

If you say as Ladli fauj said that there is no debate on scriptures then he calls us taliban.

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