Meaning Of Sochai In Sri Japji Sahib

[jasdeepsingh2k125]

wjkk wjkf

daas was trying to learn meaning of sri japji sahib and as he was looking at different translation he got different translation for one tuk

Sochai soch na hovai ,je sochi lakh // which were

1. (One) cannot achieve purity (and hence piety of mind, by simply) washing (body) clean, even hundred thousand times.

2. Mind does not become pure even if you take bath thousands of times
(souchae:by bathing, soch: cleanliness or purity, lakh vaar: thousands of times)

3. By pondering on God, man cannot have a conception of Him, even though he may ponder over lacs of times

plz help this cruel daas to understand correct meaning........

source of different translation were ....

1 translation of nitname by dr kulwant singh

2 a topic on sikh awareness forum which daas found out searching google.......

[Singh, Mahan]

In my opinion, the translation # 3 is closest to what is being said in Gurmukhi.

However, the literal translation of that ‘tuk’ from Japji Sahib is as follow:

By (just –merely) thinking (thinking alone) one can not think of (comprehend) even if one thinks millions of time …..

(when one reads this in context of rest of the ‘pauri’ the word thinking means thinking of Nirankar/ waheguru and of His greatness and vastness)

Sochai = By thinking (in context here it conveys the meaning - By thinking alone)

soch na hovai = cant think – can not be thought of

je sochi lakh // = (even) if thought lakhs (millions) of times

[luckysingh99]

According to Prof sahib, Giani Sant ji Maskeen and Gyani Thakur ji, the meaning is for 'cleansing'.

To understand first four tuks, we have to pay attention to the fifth tuk, “kiv sachhiara hovai, kiv kude tutte paal”.

Reading this with all four tusk, it becomes clear that the first tuk refers to ‘man’ (mind). In the first tuk, purity of the mind, in the second tuk silence of mind, in the third hunger of mind and in the fourth wisdom of mind is told.

‘soch’ is translated as ‘succh’
Thinking and wisdom of mind have been described in the fourth tuk. Therefore, the first tuk has another concept, which is clarified by studying the following tuk

1) Kahu Nanak succh dhiayee, succh hovai taan such paiyee (As di Vaar)
2) Soch kare dina aur raat, Man kee mail na tann to jaat (Sukhmani)
3) Naa succh sanjam tulsi maala, gopa kaan gau gopala. Tant mant pakhand na koi, naa koi vansh vaajija (Maru Mahala 1)

Also in gurbani we have-

ang 59
ਕਾਇਆ ਸੋਚ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਿਆਰ ॥
Kā¬i¬ā socẖ na pā¬ī¬ai bin har bẖagaṯ pi¬ār.
One does not meet God through ritual cleansing without loving devotion to the Lord.

ang237
ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਪੋਥੀ ॥
Ŧirath ḏėv ḏėhurā pothī.
The sacred shrines of pilgrimage, gods, temples and holy books;
ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਸੋਚ ਪਾਕ ਹੋਤੀ ॥
Mālā ṯilak socẖ pāk hoṯī.
rosaries, ceremonial tilak marks on the forehead, ritual cleansing to be pure, and the offering of burnt offerings;


ang265
ਸੋਚ ਕਰੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
Socẖ karai ḏinas ar rāṯ.
You may practice cleansing day and night,

ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਜਾਤਿ ॥
Man kī mail na ṯan ṯė jāṯ.
but the filth of your mind shall not leave your body.

ang905
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਤੀਰਥ ਭਰਮੀਜੈ ॥
Anṯar mail ṯirath bẖarmījai.
With filth within, he wanders around at places of pilgrimage.
ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਿਆ ਸੋਚ ਕਰੀਜੈ ॥
Man nahī sūcẖā ki¬ā socẖ karījai.
His mind is not pure, so what is the use of performing ritual cleansings?

ang1266
ਅਨਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਭੋਜਨ ਬਹੁ ਕੀਏ ਬਹੁ ਬਿੰਜਨ ਮਿਸਟਾਏ ॥
अनिक प्रकार भोजन बहु कीए बहु बिंजन मिसटाए ॥
Anik parkār bẖojan baho kī¬ė baho binjan mistā¬ė.
I have prepared all sorts of foods in various ways, and all sorts of sweet deserts.
ਕਰੀ ਪਾਕਸਾਲ ਸੋਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰਾ ਹੁਣਿ ਲਾਵਹੁ ਭੋਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਏ ॥੨॥
Karī pāksāl socẖ paviṯarā huṇ lāvhu bẖog har rā¬ė. ||2||
I have made my kitchen ritually pure and sacred. Now, O my Sovereign Lord King, please sample my food. ||2||

[ssinghuk]

Can't all 3 be applicable?

[tuhintuhin]

OP ji

Thinking and bathing both are correct......both are applicable....

One always think of attaining virtues so one can be closer to God, but mere thinkng doesn't obtain anything unless hard work is put into it.....which is naam simran, sewa, kirat kar and vand shak....

Secondly cleansing or bathing of body won't cleanse or purify the dust on the mind, it can be done only by naam simran, sewa, kirat kar & vand shak....

there are and can be thousands of meanings of just one tuk, Gurbani is not stuck to just one meaning.....every mind gets interpretation based on his/her level of spirituality and as one's spiritual level develops, many meanings of same tuk will flourish in the mind automatically.......and if person tries to explain it to someone else with lower spiritual level ....... won't get it.........

bhul chuk maaf...

[sat]

You are all correct but it all comes down to this tuk in the end

hukam rajaa-ee chalnaa naanak likhi-aa naal

[luckysingh99]

OP ji

Thinking and bathing both are correct......both are applicable....

One always think of attaining virtues so one can be closer to God, but mere thinkng doesn't obtain anything unless hard work is put into it.....which is naam simran, sewa, kirat kar and vand shak....

Secondly cleansing or bathing of body won't cleanse or purify the dust on the mind, it can be done only by naam simran, sewa, kirat kar & vand shak....

there are and can be thousands of meanings of just one tuk, Gurbani is not stuck to just one meaning.....every mind gets interpretation based on his/her level of spirituality and as one's spiritual level develops, many meanings of same tuk will flourish in the mind automatically.......and if person tries to explain it to someone else with lower spiritual level ....... won't get it.........

bhul chuk maaf...

That is mostly my view as well !!!

I gave the above post in relation to the other one so that one can see both meanings.

In all fairness, I actually have applied both meanings at different stages and even now, i may change over.

I would probably think that '' one cannot comprehend him even by trying thousands of different methods'' would be a slightly better one for me. Since, comprehending or understanding him in complete cannot be done by bathing at holy places, by fasting or by trying to work him out in your brain- no matter how smart you are !!!

[Wicked Warrior]

I remember a katha by Bhai Harjinder Singh Lallie. Each of the sentences in that pauri relate to what was going on in the world.

Some holy men were washing themselves in between meditation so they were always "pure" or clean. They would wash every few hours. Their belief was that they needed to remain clean so they could find God. Guru Ji tells us you can wash your body as many times as you want but you will not find God by doing so.